The World without the US on Climate Change

[rareboy]

So the [STRIKE]G7[/STRIKE] G6 just issued a statement on climate.

And just left the US out of it.

http://www.iflscience.com/environme...l-climate-declaration-issued-by-g7-ministers/

 

[Kulindahr]

Hogwash capitalism is essential to free enterprise. Spare us your idiosyncratic definitions.

No, capitalism is just another system that gets tacked on to free enterprise and ends up interfering with it. In order for markets to be free, there have to be protections against capitalism.

 

[Kulindahr]

The two are often related, but this supposes supply and demand. Climate change, regardless the cause, will turn both of these realities and their relationships on their heads. Take a look around, Sir.

The relationship is best stated as: capitalism works best when free enterprise dominates, but capitalism unchecked endangers free enterprise.

 

[Kulindahr]

Look again at #146.. I was responding to Kuindhars point that we create heat by heating houses, and many other ways. This is separate from the C02 issue. I did not concede the CO2 issue. As usual, gsdx did not understand the point being discussed, and I have him on ignore.

"Did not understand...."

Good self-description. You conceded the human-caused global warming issue in the words "less cold".

 

[Kulindahr]

Except you ignore his other point, that excess heat is NOT radiated out into space but stays in the climate thus slowly warming the planet. CO2 and other greenhouse gases DIRECTLY relate to that effect. So it is NOT a separate issue but part of the overall effect.

But I separated the two to prove that humans are warming the planet even apart from the greenhouse gas issue. He actually conceded that point but will continue to deny that humans are heating up the planet.

 

[Kulindahr]

Much of the earths heat is indeed radiated out to space. https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/EnergyBalance/page4.php

Nice middle school science article.

But it doesn't address the fact that humans are happily generating mega-BTUs f heat and pumping it into the atmosphere (at least not directly).

 

[Kulindahr]

Neither do I but I also disagree with society taking no action in a problem with such far reaching impacts and there is a whole lot of room between those two positions. Nothing is gained by ignoring the problem OR overhyping it. There are very practical reasons for more than just climate change alone to be encouraging our economies and societies to move away from fossil fuel technologies.

Government's part should at the least cover making companies honest by requiring them to pay costs they would prefer to externalize. That's the best argument for a carbon tax: it requires companies to pay an actual cost that they shove off onto everyone else as a monetary cost.

IIRC it was Keynes who made the best argument in favor of reducing externalized costs in order to have an honest economy. Friedman argued in favor of making it easy to sue companies when their externalized costs have a negative impact on people, but the problem with that is it only makes the economy honest when someone not only gets bothered by the externalizing of a cost but has to resources to utilize the legal system for a corrective.

 

[Kulindahr]

Perfect question again. As a data junkie who loves to analog raw data, I am angry that mr trump has stolen countless records, histories and raw observations. This is a heartless political act. The value of this information is priceless. This really makes me fucking angry.

Agreed! The elimination of data mostly paid for by the public from the public's reach and even from existence should be sufficient grounds for impeachment, as it is theft on a grand scale -- and not merely theft, but theft that constitutes reckless endangerment of the entire public.

 

[mikey3000]

It's the cows, man! IT'S THE COWS!!!

http://www.timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2

 

[Stardreamer]

It's the cows, man! IT'S THE COWS!!!

http://www.timeforchange.org/are-cows-cause-of-global-warming-meat-methane-CO2

They are one of many things to contribute to it and are part of the Human influence aspect.

 

[mikey3000]

Supposedly, they are a MAJOR contributor to the greenhouse gasses. Especially the ones who drive SUV's.

 

[Kulindahr]

They are one of many things to contribute to it and are part of the Human influence aspect.

Combatting it isn't just good ecologically -- cow "fart packs" catch enough methane that large farms can use it to power machinery!

And some enterprising soul has a prototype methane-collecting barn.... an idea that seems especially pertinent after a German barn caught fire due to cow farts:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/farting-cows-blow-barn-build-methane-article-1.1594986

 

[ballcaphair]

Combatting it isn't just good ecologically -- cow "fart packs" catch enough methane that large farms can use it to power machinery!

And some enterprising soul has a prototype methane-collecting barn.... an idea that seems especially pertinent after a German barn caught fire due to cow farts:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/farting-cows-blow-barn-build-methane-article-1.1594986

Alas, the data link to express theory has been stolen. I pray that it has not been destroyed. So I'm still fucking angry. Who can argue without facts. We will be uninformed.

 

[Stardreamer]

Supposedly, they are a MAJOR contributor to the greenhouse gasses. Especially the ones who drive SUV's.

My understanding is that as a greenhouse gas methane is more 'efficient' than CO2 on the other paw though we generate a LOT more CO2 than we do methane. We also release a lot of methane in our oil and gas production. And as the global temperature rises the permafrost layers in the Arctic and sub-arctic regions is becoming less 'perma'. When they defrost they release massive amounts of methane into the atmosphere.

There are several things we can do to reduce or mediate methane production in cows, the fart packs do not seem very efficient but the scrubbing systems in barns are promising, switching to grass feed instead of grain feed I gather helps and there are some food additives as well.

Of course arguing over whether a small bottle of burning cooking oil is hotter than a burning couch is trivial to the bigger issue that the house is on fire.