Theory of being gay

[NotHardUp1]

I have never known of any one who has chose to have an attraction for the same sex. The argument for gay rights hinges upon gay people being gay by no choice of their own.

If it's by nature then there is no choice. If it's by nurture then some think it can be undone, that a person can be "made straight".

That is exactly what killed the potential for broadly researching the cause of orientation. The unchangeable nature of orientation makes causation a moot point ultimately. The gay rights cause has succeeding in arguing it in progressive societies and that has become the gold standard for that whole question of causation and any supposed need for proof. The nature theory used to have a big push for it among LGBT because for a time it did exactly that, squelched the debate by arguing an inborn trait could not be moral or immoral. That logic is flawed for multiple reasons, but it didn't matter ultimately when the better argument prevailed about immutability.

Unfortunately, away from research centers or moralizing homophobes, gay men have done a lot of damage to our own cause by constantly pursuing straight men and porn culture that does the same. It has an undermining effect as it more than plainly implies that straight men can be turned into gay with the mere performance of an amazing blow job. And don't go down the path of everyone is simply fluid based on social constructs. The vast majority of gay men do NOT feel that fluidity and think they would be just as likely to go straight when the right gal seduces them. Science and pop culture and lore are separate things on sexuality.

 

[rareboy]

Calm your tits down and take your meds. Life is to short to be so angry.

So in the absence of any reasonable response you'll just add another swipe to the previous one.

nice.

 

[Benvolio]

"Big size" is not evidence of wisdom, or strength, or courage.

About ten years ago I attended a martial arts exhibition in Athens as a spectator. The most thrilling demonstrations of various Kung fu styles were provided by Chinese practioners male, and female over 65 years of age, who by Western standards were very short, and very thin, and although possessing good muscle tone, were not muscular....these "stars" invited local experienced martial artists in the audience to join them on stage, and hit them. Most of the volunteers who came forward were very young men in their early/mid twenties. None could land one punch on the old men, and women demonstrating their skills were not the result of being "bigger, stronger, and braver."

Nevertheless, men are generally larger, stronger, braver, and more agressive. Of course, there are exceptions. The important point is that those traits are not mere constructs or social conventions, they are the result of Darwinian evolution. The families of big, strong, brave, agressive men were fed and protected better than families of weak or less brave men. Actually it goes back to the earlier stages of evolution.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Traits whether inherent or not are not inherently masculine or feminine, we as a society decided what feminine and masculine meant. And ultimately what they mean in general society is stupid. All it ends up being is dick measuring contests and a way to assign roles based on gender and other nonsense.

 

[kallipolis]

Nevertheless, men are generally larger, stronger, braver, and more agressive. Of course, there are exceptions. The important point is that those traits are not mere constructs or social conventions, they are the result of Darwinian evolution. The families of big, strong, brave, agressive men were fed and protected better than families of weak or less brave men. Actually it goes back to the earlier stages of evolution.

Illogical....wise people fend better when feeding, protecting their families.

Physical size, and aggressiveness has nothing to do with being able to defeat ones enemies.

Ones skills in self defence is the measure of ones success against ones opponents.

 

[Benvolio]

Traits whether inherent or not are not inherently masculine or feminine, we as a society decided what feminine and masculine meant. And ultimately what they mean in general society is stupid. All it ends up being is dick measuring contests and a way to assign roles based on gender and other nonsense.

That liberal dogma is clearly incorrect. Much of masculinity is physiological; deeper voice, beard, chest hair, muscle size and strength, aggressiveness, are all functions of testosterone. Males are more brave, less fearfull, less able to cry or to feel the emotions associated with crying. Again, this a function of testosterone. Sure there can be exceptions, so don't bother to tell us about your Aunt Tilly's deep voice and hairy chest.

 

[gsdx]

Males are more brave, less fearfull, less able to cry or to feel the emotions associated with crying. Again, this a function of testosterone.

Not crying is not a function of high testosterone. It's a function of society. Peer pressure is far more powerful than testosterone.

 

[Benvolio]

Illogical....wise people fend better when feeding, protecting their families.

Physical size, and aggressiveness has nothing to do with being able to defeat ones enemies.

Ones skills in self defence is the measure of ones success against ones opponents.

Then you are hard pressed to explain why human males and those of many other species, have evolved to be bigger, stronger and more aggressive than females. Self defense among advanced societies may depend less on size and strength, but for the first million or so years of humans and their humoid ancestors size, strength and agressivness mattered.

 

[Benvolio]

Testerone inhibits crying. http://www.thehealthsite.com/diseas...why-we-cry-and-what-happens-when-we-cry-f715/

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

That liberal dogma is clearly incorrect. Much of masculinity is physiological; deeper voice, beard, chest hair, muscle size and strength, aggressiveness, are all functions of testosterone. Males are more brave, less fearfull, less able to cry or to feel the emotions associated with crying. Again, this a function of testosterone. Sure there can be exceptions, so don't bother to tell us about your Aunt Tilly's deep voice and hairy chest.

Liberal Dogma.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Your definition of masculinity sounds like a definition coming from someone who is insecure in their own masculinity, nothing more.

 

[peeonme]

Much of what we call masculinity are traits which evolved to enable the male to hunt and protect the family from animals and other savage humans. That is why the male is bigger, stronger, and braver.

In most cases bigger and stronger, but braver?
The fact that we exist lies in the courage of our mothers in coming close to death in some cases so that we could be born. Then they do it again and again.
Female mammals are fierce in defending their young and relentless in their pursuit of food for them. I hardly had a kind loving mother, but yet I see that most , in fact the majority of mothers are fearless when it comes to provision of food and clothing for their children.

I have known many, far to many men who were lazy cowards and never cared for their families until it came to getting a piece of ass and a hot meal.
Being masculine does not make one a better man.

 

[Benvolio]

In most cases bigger and stronger, but braver?
The fact that we exist lies in the courage of our mothers in coming close to death in some cases so that we could be born. Then they do it again and again.
Female mammals are fierce in defending their young and relentless in their pursuit of food for them. I hardly had a kind loving mother, but yet I see that most , in fact the majority of mothers are fearless when it comes to provision of food and clothing for their children.

I have known many, far to many men who were lazy cowards and never cared for their families until it came to getting a piece of ass and a hot meal.
Being masculine does not make one a better man.

Bravery and aggressivness are related and are increased by testosterone. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11701933/Are-mens-lives-ruled-by-testosterone.html
Yes women can be brave and there are always exceptions.

 

[Benvolio]

Liberal Dogma.

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Your definition of masculinity sounds like a definition coming from someone who is insecure in their own masculinity, nothing more.

The notion that masculinity and femininity are only social constructs is a liberal dogma, and like most such, is wrong. Of course the are some aspects defined by culture, but there are basic physiological diffetences which are most important.

 

[jmadaf]

My theory is testosterone, family environment, has nothing to do with being gay, it comes from being attracted to the same sex. All people are until puberty, then the hormones take over, and you start noticing the opposite sex, and some act on it and some don't, it's just what that person feels comfortable with. Me personally I was scared of girls, I didn't like the feelings I got when I was around them, I felt more comfortable with boys, so I always avoided girls when I could, and that started me on my way to gay. Some guys would act on the girl feelings I didn't. that's just my opinion, and everybody's got one this is mine. So just enjoy who you are, and try not to hate the other side, I think there is just too much of that.

 

[Benvolio]

My theory is testosterone, family environment, has nothing to do with being gay, it comes from being attracted to the same sex. All people are until puberty, then the hormones take over, and you start noticing the opposite sex, and some act on it and some don't, it's just what that person feels comfortable with. Me personally I was scared of girls, I didn't like the feelings I got when I was around them, I felt more comfortable with boys, so I always avoided girls when I could, and that started me on my way to gay. Some guys would act on the girl feelings I didn't. that's just my opinion, and everybody's got one this is mine. So just enjoy who you are, and try not to hate the other side, I think there is just too much of that.

You seem to be saying thst being gay is a choice you made. I disagree and very few here would agree. It is pernicious idea which underlies most of the hostility to gays. No one really knows what causes some to be gay, but gays know that it is not a choice.

 

[ballcaphair]

That would be entirely relative to where you are born on this planet. You might be smelling sweet roses in Soho, West Hollywood, or the Castro, or you might be finding yourself forced into straight marriage by family in India, Arabia, or shoved off a building's roof.

Point taken, but the rose smells sweet even in Arabia. Although I would only enjoy it secretively and alone in the closet. I would not wonder why it smells so sweet. I apologize, NotHarUp1, I am just not understanding the whole point of this debate. Please just forgive me, I do not intend to be dismissive. Respects, Sir.

 

[kallipolis]

Then you are hard pressed to explain why human males and those of many other species, have evolved to be bigger, stronger and more aggressive than females. Self defense among advanced societies may depend less on size and strength, but for the first million or so years of humans and their humoid ancestors size, strength and agressivness mattered.

The physical development of the male is not a factor when contemplating the abilities of either the male, or the female to protect, and provide for their family.

A skilled, and wise practitioner of any form of self defence is always better able to disable, or stop an opponent, than one who is merely physically large, and aggressive. That's why small Chinese kung fu practitioners can, and do render helpless any opponent who is not skilled in the art of self defence no matter how large, or aggressive.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

The notion that masculinity and femininity are only social constructs is a liberal dogma, and like most such, is wrong. Of course the are some aspects defined by culture, but there are basic physiological diffetences which are most important.

It has nothing to do with "liberal dogma", it is my opinion. Learn and comprehend what I have said. Not going to repeat myself for someone so thick headed.

 

[SaskGuy]

It has nothing to do with "liberal dogma", it is my opinion. Learn and comprehend what I have said. Not going to repeat myself for someone so thick headed.

I think that since you personally don't fit into the standard traits of "masculine" and "feminine", you think everybody else feels the same way and most men only pretend to be masculine, and women only pretend to be feminine because society "forces" them to.

It's like when a bisexual person just assumes everyone is bi, and they choose whether to be with a guy, or a girl. I actually know a guy who's likely bisexual who feels that it's a choice for that reason. He has no problem with people's sexuality either way, but that opinion of his has pissed off a number of people.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Please don't speak for me. Now where did I say "most" men or women pretend to be anything, though I hope you are not trying to deny that people do purposely act certain ways to fit societal norms. I cannot speak for "most" people because I don't know these people to speak for them.

What is the point in trying to explain my point of view? When people apparently have trouble understanding what you are saying no matter how you say it.

-I think there are traits that could very well be inherent in people, man or woman.

-I don't not think these traits are inherently masculine or feminine themselves.

-I am saying we as a society decided to label these traits as masculine and feminine.

This thread is a very good example for my argument considering that there are people who did not agree with another posters view as to what is masculine. If masculine and feminine were set in stone it wouldn't be such a subjective subject.