Too many effeminate images of black gay men on television

[Rolyo85]

Oh, and perhaps those bashing RuPaul for not doing enough for the gay black community should ask themselves what did the gay black community do for a young RuPaul who was emerging as a drag personality?

 

[Rolyo85]

First two sentences: AWESOME! 100% agreed.

Third Sentence: Okay, easy there buddy...

Last paragraph:

[random gif]

I posted it deliberately, knowing it would be controversial. I would not dream of belittling Rosa Parks, or what she did. But I am sick and tired of dumb ignorant gays who aren't ok enough with their own sexuality and so attack icons of gay culture for not being big-butch-straight-men-who-like-dick and I wanted to draw attention to it.

Ultimately, Rosa Parks was an incredibly brave woman who challenged societal norms and was embraced by her own community. RuPaul is an incredibly brave man who challenged societal norms AND the norms of his own community AND the norms of the gay community, by daring to be a black man dressing as a woman. He created an entire culture which is stronger than ever now, and he has been a beacon of hope for thousands of gay boys who wanted to express themselves through drag but were belittled, bullied and abused by not just straight 'phobes, but also their own gay brothers.

 

[hylas]

i agree that there should be more black characters, more gay characters, and more black gay characters of any "type" on tv. but the OP has a nasty whif of internalized homophobia.

 

[refujiunderground]

Well, then the black community has a lot of growing up to do still, on gay issues, same as the Latino community btw. But the way to do this is not to seek "Enemies Within the Party" to throw to the lions in some desperate attempt to show how manly and butch you are, but to embrace all diversity within the group, present a unified front, plant your feet and say "yes, we are black, we're gay, and some of us are feminine. Deal with it!"

Anything else is just cowardice and capitulating to heteronormative bigotry.

of course, however, i think that what could actually help black gay guys within the black community are more openly gay black men that break the typical stereotype that is already set out there. the approach would have to be people being educated about the issue by feeding them bits and pieces to the point where they realize that homosexuality is normal or nothing special. in this case, if there was a rapper who was popular, had the typical image like other rappers outthere that came out as gay and etc. that would make MORE of an impact than a gay rapper that basically comes in as a stereotype because people won't dismiss him easily as a gimmick. their views towards homosexuality might change upon seeing that they can relate to him as a person where they'll go like "okay, what is homosexuality really about? it's about guys being attracted to guys. it's no different than how straight people are attracted to the opposite sex. talking to a gay person isn't going to hurt me. they're just like me. gay people are no different than me."

 

[MorrisseyX]

I was channel surfing and I noticed the black character in a red dress. I don't really watch Glee.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Relax, we should be thankful we have any gays on TV, let alone black gays. In the past 5 years the count has exploded and to be honest when has it ever been easy for people of color to get those good roles? Now you want to stretch it even further with now they have to be gay and black? Wait, gay, black, and masculine?


There are plenty of more masculine gheighs on tv screens, however like us ethnic people are use to we will have to be patient until all angles of our culture are regularly presented.


We have Deception and Scandal leading the rating on their own nights, it's a good time and I'm looking forward to the new shows (and some old ones) to further push us in a good direction.

 

[Rolyo85]

of course, however, i think that what could actually help black gay guys within the black community are more openly gay black men that break the typical stereotype that is already set out there. the approach would have to be people being educated about the issue by feeding them bits and pieces to the point where they realize that homosexuality is normal or nothing special. in this case, if there was a rapper who was popular, had the typical image like other rappers outthere that came out as gay and etc. that would make MORE of an impact than a gay rapper that basically comes in as a stereotype because people won't dismiss him easily as a gimmick. their views towards homosexuality might change upon seeing that they can relate to him as a person where they'll go like "okay, what is homosexuality really about? it's about guys being attracted to guys. it's no different than how straight people are attracted to the opposite sex. talking to a gay person isn't going to hurt me. they're just like me. gay people are no different than me."

We shouldn't have to "prove" anything to straight people. MANY of us are not the same as them. And we should protect this diversity instead of being ashamed of it and throwing it to the wolves.

 

[MorrisseyX]

Well, then the black community has a lot of growing up to do still, on gay issues, same as the Latino community btw. But the way to do this is not to seek "Enemies Within the Party" to throw to the lions in some desperate attempt to show how manly and butch you are, but to embrace all diversity within the group, present a unified front, plant your feet and say "yes, we are black, we're gay, and some of us are feminine. Deal with it!"

Anything else is just cowardice and capitulating to heteronormative bigotry.

Wow, thanks for the patertnalistic speech, it isn't about people "growing up" it is about acknowledging that different communities view homosexuality differently. For plenty of black people seeing someone like say Anderson Cooper coming out they don't give a shit he's just another rich white gay guy who came out.

However, when Frank Ocean came out last year, black heterosexual people DID pay attention notice the difference. Frank Ocean is not effeminate he's a respected singer and songwriter. So I think slowly but surely there is progress.

And as for Latino's Orlando Cruz is a person I respect so much an openly gay Latino boxer who is professional and active in his sport. I don't see any other gay men coming out in pro sports and staying active like Orlando. Cruz gets love and support whenever he competes in boxing.

See, it is the masculine gay men who are going to make a real impact in communities of colour they are going to show people a gay black or Latino man is still a man.

 

[Rolyo85]

No, it really IS about growing up.


It's not about different views, it's about hatred of femininity.

 

[DigitalFudge]

Another thing that I say in every masculine vs feminine thread is you, me, and everyone else in here probably comes in contact with more masculine gays than feminine gays: We just don't know.


It's easier to point out the guy in the line at whole foods in short shorts and a headband but it's harder to point out the guy placing his order at Cheesecake factory in front of you with basketball shorts on and a bluetooth in his ear.

 

[refujiunderground]

We shouldn't have to "prove" anything to straight people. MANY of us are not the same as them. And we should protect this diversity instead of being ashamed of it and throwing it to the wolves.

but couldn't that be used as an argument opposing gay marriage though since "many of us are not the same as them so why should we even be bothered to accept them, let alone share the same rights and protections under the law since they're different". i'm not saying that we should compromise who we are or that fems should stop acting fem, masculine guys should stop acting masculine or we should hide who we are. i'm just trying to say that a part of showing them that we're no different than straight people in the aspects that we're human beings. we shit, piss, watch tv, cry, eat, play sports, and etc. our sexual orientations are an aspect of ourselves just like straight people. we deserve the same rights and protections that they do so let's not get to the point where we should isolate ourselves from them like we don't live on this earth or that we're completely different. that's what most of them think about us already.

 

[Phantas33]

The only "thing" that makes us "different" from straight people is our sexual orientation. For the rest, whether you're black or white, feminine or masculine, young or old - you live your lives exactly the same way, namely the way YOU WANT TO.

I've been reading this thread a bit, I'm not black at all, but I found it interesting how narrow-minded the discussion actually is.

MOrrisey - Rolyo is right up to the point that sofar, apparently, the Black Community hasn't learned diddly squat about respect and acceptance of and towards others, if they can only look down on [effeminate] (black) gays. The fact that the Black Community does not seem to CARE about white gays, says enough IMHO. So much for a "Black community" showing respect when usually blacks are the ones who cry the hardest when they're not given it. Not trying to offend, merely an observation.

I agree with you though, that more 'less effeminate' black gay males will help to create a wider acceptance towards gays in general among the black community, but it still boils down to the point that they should respect ANY kind of gay man, no matter if they're effeminate or not.

So, summing it up, I get your point, I agree with most of it but Rolyo has a more valid point which seems to be more urgent.

Tv or no tv, acceptance comes from within the community and not through the media. Perhaps there should be a platform for black, masculine gay men..... just a thought.

best of luck
Rick

 

[Rolyo85]

but couldn't that be used as an argument opposing gay marriage though since "many of us are not the same as them". i'm not saying that we should compromise who we are. i'm just trying to say that a part of showing that we're no different than straight people is by showing them that we're about the same regardless of how we act or what we like. we deserve the same rights and protections that they do so let's not get to the point where we should isolate ourselves from them like we don't live on this earth.

It's not an argument. We're different and diverse. Doesn't mean we're less. If fewer butch guys were worried about being considered feminine if they came out, black gay men would have all the masc representation they're craving.

 

[xbuzzerx]

This is true. It boils down to this baseless association of "feminine = negative." It's like people forget that it's possible to be positive/admirable and feminine.

If every woman shown on TV were a housewife, and the main response to criticism of that was "are you implying there's something NEGATIVE about being a housewife?", TV roles for women wouldn't have advanced or diversified much.

 

[refujiunderground]

It's not an argument. We're different and diverse. Doesn't mean we're less. If fewer butch guys were worried about being considered feminine if they came out, black gay men would have all the masc representation they're craving.

they wouldn't. even before rupaul, it was a normal thing for black comedians and black oriented entertainment outlets to make fun of black gay men. rupaul was able to help the lgbt community on a whole though. not so much with the black community though.

 

[Rolyo85]

they wouldn't. even before rupaul, it was a normal thing for black comedians and black oriented entertainment outlets to make fun of black gay men. rupaul was able to help the lgbt community on a whole though. not so much with the black community though.

Um, we don't know that, since butch gay men are so scared of coming out.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I think people are taking issue with the fact that they found the OP to be denigrating effeminate gay men. He wants masculine gay black men to be more visible on TV in order to reverse 'the damage' that has been done by effeminate ones. I mean it's his right to feel this way but that's what people are reacting to.

I agree with that. I saw some comments about snap-sissies or something, lol.

 

[MorrisseyX]

they wouldn't. even before rupaul, it was a normal thing for black comedians and black oriented entertainment outlets to make fun of black gay men. rupaul was able to help the lgbt community on a whole though. not so much with the black community though.

This is true, black gay men have been mocked and laughed at by heterosexual blacks for decades. There is this major stereotype in the black community to be a gay man means a black man MUST be effeminate. When a black gay man comes out and he's masculine or has some level of masculinty he really challenges the homophobia in the black community.

It would be nice if there are more images of masculine gay black men because we can show the black community we are still men. Being gay does not mean a black man is no longer a man.

All you have to do is go to You Tube and you can see Flip Wilson in drag as Geraldine from the 1970s I think from the Sanford and Son show. And then in the 1990s Martin Lawrence and Jamie Foxx also dressed in drag and got big laughs. Now the current drag queen for laughs is Tyler Perry with his Madea character and he's making big money. Tyler Perry is interesting because he's clearly gay yet his black Christian audience don't mind laughing about Madea even though he's wearing a dress. In Tyler Perry's movies interestingly enough he talks about all kinds of issues yet homosexuality is always absent in his films.

 

[refujiunderground]

This is true, black gay men have been mocked and laughed at by heterosexual blacks for decades. There is this major stereotype in the black community to be a gay man means a black man MUST be effeminate. When a black gay man comes out and he's masculine or has some level of masculinty he really challenges the homophobia in the black community.

It would be nice if there are more images of masculine gay black men because we can show the black community we are still men. Being gay does not mean a black man is no longer a man.

All you have to do is go to You Tube and you can see Flip Wilson in drag as Geraldine from the 1970s I think from the Sanford and Son show. And then in the 1990s Martin Lawrence and Jamie Foxx also dressed in drag and got big laughs. Now the current drag queen for laughs is Tyler Perry with his Madea character and he's making big money. Tyler Perry is interesting because he's clearly gay yet his black Christian audience don't mind laughing about Madea even though he's wearing a dress. In Tyler Perry's movies interestingly enough he talks about all kinds of issues yet homosexuality is always absent in his films.

well, speaking of black male comedians dressing up in drag making fun of black male homosexuals and black women as well, it's a known cash cow in hollywood. it's apparently entertaining in hollywood to make fun of black male homosexuals, transgendered people, and black women. big's momma's house, tyler perry with the madea bullshit, juwanna man, and all the other examples that you mentioned. can't forget the tv shows as well such as a living color back in the day where jamie fox and damon wayans were making fun of gay black men with that skit. it's fucked up.

rolyo, it's NOT as simple as it looks. it just can't just be one person that does it. it has to be many people that do it. you know, it's just like the lgbt rights movement in america. changing people's perceptions didn't happen overnight and not just with one person. it took many people from many different avenues to make people open their eyes about that shit. it's that in the black community, there really haven't been any famous openly gay black men that were different than the stereotypes that were pushed outthere already. damn near most of the guys have actually backed up the stereotype for example the cast of noah's arc. that's pretty much how the black community looks at us black gay men as being exactly like those guys when that's not even the case. yeah, there's some gay black guys that are like those guys on the show but then there's us black gay guys that are NOT like that. i feel that the image on noah's arc that backs up the gay black male stereotype actually hurt guys like me that have to deal with the negativity already that has been around for years. we still have to deal with the bullshit from j.l. king's "downlow brother" movement which he set us gay black men back 100 years.

you have some black people thinking that i'm "ashamed" of my sexuality because i'm not acting like rupaul or the guy's from noah arc where i carry myself super effeminate to the point where i make females jealous. they act like a gay black man has to act or behave a certain way because he's gay. hell, i've even had other gay black men joke about me being a "homo thug" because i like hip hop, talk a certain way and etc. they think that i'm not being true to myself. like seriously, do i have to fucking follow the gay stereotype because i'm gay. WTF? bad enough, i get shit in society for being black.

 

[rareboy]

So a guy who's watching Glee is bitching about too much femininity...

It's like raaaaa-aaaaiiiiin, on your wedding day

Oh.

Thank.

You.

for.

this.