Trying so hard to get him

[crubbed]

Yes guys, you're right. Tomorrow, I'll ask him out. I will delete my fake profile. Although I have to admit that I'm tempted to keep using it to... you know... have a chance to talk to him about the new guy he met [= me] and stuff. But I know that it is unhealthy, and trust me I don't feel comfortable doing it. I probably won't do it.

No, hotb0d, I won't tell him the truth. Maybe one day. But it's very unlikely. I don't know where you found the courage to do that. BTW, if you're the guy in the pic you're very cute.

You know what, the thing with this guy is that he'll leave town in September. He'll move to Spain, where he used to live a few years ago and where he's out. So it's just temporary. But this would be my first experience. I've never ever had a romantic relationship, of any kind. So, I'm curious. I want to experiment. And I know that with this guy it wouldn't last because he wants to leave the country. That's why I'm eager to fuck it up. But these mindgames are very silly, I know that. I'm done. I'll use the very line G-Lexington wrote.

I know what it is like to become obsessed with someone. I lived that, a few years ago. Check my previous posts. All of my gay life experiences have been posted on this very board. So, rest assured that if I don't hear from him I will not go to his bar anymore. Heck, he even gave his number to my hottieself and I didn't use it (well, duh. but you know what I mean). I will not fall back into that trap. I'm still paying the consequences for my actions of a few years ago.

Re: low self esteem. The thing with low self esteem is that you're intelligent enough to understand that you're not very handsome and stuff, but there is a survivor instinct inside of you that prompts you to do the unthinkable. At least that's how it works for me. I don't even know why I have a low self esteem. I'm not that bad: I'm tall, thin, no particular muscles, but there are many guys like this out there and guess what, they are often very hot. I also dress in a way that becomes my body. So it's not like I'm clumsy. I just don't like my face very much, I think it's too hard and my smile is too broad. I also hate my being hairy. But I've seen uglier people get boyfriends or girlfriends, so I've got to stop making up problems.

 

[slnattak]

*sigh*

Sounds like you just need some friends first.... or whatever.

If you need to take it slow, well then just be yourself in realistic, small doses at a time.

But this whole fake persona you're doing, is just making you shoot your own self in the foot, and I know you are smart enough to realize that.

You don't have to publically declare you are gay. But if you are into somebody, then it makes you want to become a better man and come out. You have to be not so self-absorbed where if you are seriously dating somebody, you can be seen in public with them, and be okay with it. Doesn't mean u gotta act all lovey dovey and shit but you gotta be okay in your skin enough where if people catch on that you are a gay male, you can be OK with that.

Until you get that ready personally, you are not really seriously ready to date another man. AND THAT'S OKAY. But it doesn't mean u have to go into a downward spiral of sex hook-ups and abusive, self-destructive behavior either.

 

[hotb0d]

Oh this is a tough one. IF I was you, this is what I will do. I will get on my alias account and write a long, heart-felt good bye message to him. Basically end it, on a good note of course. Then create a new account using your actual pictures and try your best to chat up with him on the same website. If it was meant to be, he will find that same personality that he enjoyed talking to when you were on your alias.

 

[hotb0d]

oh and about my courage. I'm a coward naturally but I guess love can do wonder to a person.

 

[spencer]

^^^^How exactly are you going to turn over a new leaf if you're still hiding something from him?

by keeping all the lies in the past and starting over by being honest about everything thereafter.

how receptive if someone gonna be if you tell them you've lied cheated and stealed to get to that point? they're not.

so now that he has lied to get to know him, he should lose all that and just continue honestly from there.


also time to get into the gym and shave. eat well and look good and your self esteem will come.

 

[crubbed]

You don't have to publically declare you are gay. But if you are into somebody, then it makes you want to become a better man and come out. You have to be not so self-absorbed where if you are seriously dating somebody, you can be seen in public with them, and be okay with it. Doesn't mean u gotta act all lovey dovey and shit but you gotta be okay in your skin enough where if people catch on that you are a gay male, you can be OK with that.

Trust me, I'm ready for that. It's been a slow process. But if I found a person I'd love... there would be no restraints. I would just live my life happily with him wherever my life takes me. Of course I won't act all lovey dovey. But I wouldn't be ashamed of him.

by keeping all the lies in the past and starting over by being honest about everything thereafter.

how receptive if someone gonna be if you tell them you've lied cheated and stealed to get to that point? they're not.

so now that he has lied to get to know him, he should lose all that and just continue honestly from there.

I agree...

also time to get into the gym and shave. eat well and look good and your self esteem will come.

Trust me, I tried with the gym. I just can't help myself. If I don't see results I get discouraged and I give up. Plus, I really don't have time. All this year I've been wrapped up by my exams, it has been exhausting, but at least this summer I'm graduating. I had no time for the gym, let alone a relationship, up until now.

So, I went to bar. While I was sitting at the tables we exchanged a few words and nothing more. He told me 'I'm sure you'll be able to study today' (the radio at the bar was not on). I told him I was not planning on studying, just reading the newspaper which is equally 'serious'. He commented: 'I could never be that serious'. And I said: 'Well, I try!'. And that was it. I was kinda disappointed so I approached him again and asked him for a coffee. We were all alone in the bar. It was the freaking perfect opportunity...

...But I could not utter a single word. So, since I had nothing else to say, I asked him again about my wallet. Yeah, I know!!!! He said he knew nothing about it, and that I had probably lost it for good. I said okay, and left. I looked rather shy, and I wonder what he thinks about me now. It was the perfect opportunity to give him my number, since we were alone. But I was speechless, my heart was beating so fast. Dammit!!! But I'm happy nonetheless. Nothing happened today, but at least nothing bad happened either I'll go back there tomorrow. I know I won't have the same wonderful situation I was presented with today. But hopefully things are unfolding and going in the right direction.

 

[CenTex22]

I'm confused about what kind of bar this is. Like a coffee bar, a "club" bar, or what?

 

[G-Lexington]

There are two main rules for conversation.

1. Find your common ground.
2. Talk about - or better yet, ask questions about - your common ground.

You're both in a bar. That's your common ground. Use it.

"Is it usually quiet on Thursdays?"
"When is it usually the deadest here?"
"Do you usually have the radio turned on here?"
"Always to that station, or do you try other things?"
"I always order the same thing. Maybe I should try something different. What would you recommend?"
"What's the weirdest thing somebody ever ordered from you?"

And then, finally, once the conversation is flowing, ask "This might sound a bit sudden, but would you like to grab a coffee or something once you get off work?"

Lex

 

[JarodA]

Please continue with the updates. I'm really interested to see how this turns out. I hope you can "get" the guy.

BTW I don't think the fake internet thing's such a big deal. You didn't hurt anyone and I understand why you'd do it if you had low self-esteem. I'd just forget about it. It's not something he really needs to know about.

 

[crubbed]

Please continue with the updates. I'm really interested to see how this turns out. I hope you can "get" the guy.

BTW I don't think the fake internet thing's such a big deal. You didn't hurt anyone and I understand why you'd do it if you had low self-esteem. I'd just forget about it. It's not something he really needs to know about.

Oh, thank you Jarod! I know the others have a point, but I also appreciate your words.

Regarding my 'mission'... So far so bad. This past weekend there was no freakin' chance for us to talk. He did not come near me, he stayed at the bar and kept working. And even if he were available you know what? He's so elusive. He doesn't let the conversation flow. Damn.

On Monday he had the day off. And today... it was disastrous. We did not have a chance to talk. Plus, I think two waitresses have picked up my tendency to, uhm, look at him (I just want to check what he's doing, in case it's time for me to approach him) and have started throwing lines here and there, whispering and smiling. When a woman (a customer) told him 'You're so cute, women love you!', one of the waitresses (an obnoxious, tacky b1tch!) quipped 'Hopefully men don't!'. What a byotch!

So, I'm wondering: is he picturing me as the gay guy who's hitting on him? I don't, you know, 'look gay', but the fact that I'm weirdly often there, doing nothing, is suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind if he thinks this. Quite the opposite. But if his co-workers do, and start mocking him... he'll start downright hating me.

I have three options left now. I have to act immediately, because I've been wasting my time at that bar since June 16. And that's enough. The options are:
A) Tomorrow I'll approach him before he enters the bar. Hopefully he'll be alone. I'll say G-Lexington's line and that will be it.
B) I'll come clean and tell him I'm not Armand (what a cool name, uh?) and the whole story.
C) I'll contact him on the dating site from another account and I'll be like 'that's where I saw your face! i knew you reminded me of someone! guess what, i'm that guy who's been shadowing you at the bar'.
For now, I'm sticking to plan A. Tomorrow will be the final day. (well, everyday is supposed to be the final day... but I'm determined. I'll ambush him!). If it doesn't work... I'm torn between plan B and plan C. I'll probably go for plan C. But the thing with plan B is that he loves Armand. So he knows me already. And I love him too. You know, guys, today we chatted again. I tried to break up with him. It wasn't easy, since I fell all the more for the guy. He's such a warm-earthed person. And since I know him a bit, I can say that what he says within the chats is real. That's the real him. Of course he's not perfect, of course I don't know all about him. But he's genuine.

Today's chat was especially telling and excruciating for me. He told me he had had an awful fight with his older brother over some pot he smoke and shouldn't have. It got so ugly that their mother, who is ill, felt ill and he got scared. You know, I felt for him, since my mother is in the same condition. And also because I have an awful relationship with my brother. I know what that situation is. I tried to give him some advice from the bottom of my heart. And he noticed. He told me 'Wow, you're such a beautiful person. You're clean inside. And profound', which I found spot on and poetic, but I had to correct him. 'No, I'm not, I'm just like everyone else...'. And he said: 'No, never'.

Then, he asked me out again. I told him I didn't feel ready, that I was scared and blah blah blah. He was extremely understanding. He always is. Then he left me because he was still tired because he hadn't slept well. His last line was: 'I wanna lie down a bit and hug my pillow'. I thought it was so effing sweet.

I'm SO-SO-sorry that I'm hurting him. I'm kind of falling. He's not like everyone else. I wonder how this will turn out.

You know something? Psychology for dummies here: I always put myself in this kind of situations, where I make something wrong and I have to go "I'm so-so-sorry!!!" and all the rest. I always do, even when it's not needed. I can't fully appreciate the good things life gives me. I always have to find a loophole wich will let me make a mistake and look like the bad guy. I liken it to the fact that when I was little, my siblings [two sisters and a brother who are around 15 yrs older than me... ie, my other three parents] used to scold me for the silliest things. Now I barely speak to them, and they don't know a fling about my life.

 

[Fishstix]

If he wasn't leaving the country, I'd have a different take but since he is, I don't think you'll get anything out of meeting him in person. It's not going to evolve into anything more than it is now even if he does like you since he's moving away and long distance almost never works, especially if it's seperate countries. He also might get mad at you for lieing and using another person's picture for your looks. If he finds out that you lied about that, he might think you lied about everything else just to please him. He won't know how honest you are. If you want, you can stay online buddies but I think you should move on from him and go after other guys.

I say start over with a new guy but this time use either your photo or no photo at all. That way you won't get yourself into a messy situation like this.

About the waitress, forget that bitch. She's probably jealous because she likes him too and knows that you have a better chance with him than she does which you do because he's gay.

 

[CenTex22]

PLAN C!!!!! PLAN C!!!!

ALSO: I officially request a full-color normal sized picture of you and a full-color normal sized picture of him so that I can picture the situation more true-to-life.

 

[spencer]

PLAN C!!!!! PLAN C!!!!

ALSO: I officially request a full-color normal sized picture of you and a full-color normal sized picture of him so that I can picture the situation more true-to-life.

Hey, you know that guy that stalks you that all your coworkers talk about and make fun of you about ("look, your stalker is here!") well, I'm not that hot guy in my profile pic you've been jacking off to, I'm actually that creepy guy that goes to your bar and stares at you the whole time i'm there.


You're reluctance to talk to the guy when you see him is starting to work against you. You're allowed to try to befriend a bartender. You're even allowed to tell him that you come in to say hello to him. It's just now that you just sit in the corner and stare or whatever it is you do, then it becomes awkward.

You need to do plan A and ask him out, or do another friend route this time making it clearer you're there cause you enjoy the bartenders company.

 

[hotb0d]

If I remember correctly, he's still in the closet right? I don't think it's a wise idea to contact him at the bar because you might blow his cover, hence it will put you in an unfavorable situation with him. If you consider making another account and try to talk to him that way, then get rid of your alias before you do anything else. Because if this guy really like/love your alias then he will not be interested in talking to the real you. Because in his mind, he has this person that he trusts and talks to and have feeling for online, why would he start chatting with some other new dude? even worse if you mention that you've been shadowing him at the bar. Only make you look like a freak and a loser to him (not trying to offend you here).

Your situation is a bit different than mine because your guy is moving to Spain? when exactly? Time might not be on your side here. Even if you end your alias, and trying to him talk to him as yourself without telling him about your alias, do you think you have enough time to make a good impression before he moves?

I'm not telling you what to do since this is your story, your life. But I still strongly suggest that you be honest with him (option B). He will be mad and disappointed and probably won't talk for you for weeks or even months. But at least he will know that you are a nice person, an honest person, someone who cares enough about him to do this. And maybe as time passed, he will forgive you and rekindle and start where you guys left off. Option B is a tough one, it's a leap of faith but IMHO, it's the best option.

Well good luck. I'm done with my 2 cents lol.

 

[rareboy]

C) I'll contact him on the dating site from another account and I'll be like 'that's where I saw your face! i knew you reminded me of someone! guess what, i'm that guy who's been shadowing you at the bar'.
For now, I'm sticking to plan A. Tomorrow will be the final day. (well, everyday is supposed to be the final day... but I'm determined. I'll ambush him!). If it doesn't work... I'm torn between plan B and plan C. I'll probably go for plan C. But the thing with plan B is that he loves Armand. So he knows me already. And I love him too. You know, guys, today we chatted again. I tried to break up with him. It wasn't easy, since I fell all the more for the guy. He's such a warm-earthed person. And since I know him a bit, I can say that what he says within the chats is real. That's the real him. Of course he's not perfect, of course I don't know all about him. But he's genuine.

Today's chat was especially telling and excruciating for me. He told me he had had an awful fight with his older brother over some pot he smoke and shouldn't have. It got so ugly that their mother, who is ill, felt ill and he got scared. You know, I felt for him, since my mother is in the same condition. And also because I have an awful relationship with my brother. I know what that situation is. I tried to give him some advice from the bottom of my heart. And he noticed. He told me 'Wow, you're such a beautiful person. You're clean inside. And profound', which I found spot on and poetic, but I had to correct him. 'No, I'm not, I'm just like everyone else...'. And he said: 'No, never'.

Jesus.

You're not getting it are you.

Just stop with the lies and deception.

There is no way that you can come out of this well given the approach you're taking.

Too many plans.

Too many machinations.

There is something pathological about this and I have to say that you need to get this type of behaviour under control before you think it is an acceptable pattern throughout your life.

Your final paragraph is a dead giveaway. This isn't about conning some guy. This is a cry for help.

I think you need to sit down with a behavioural therapist to sort through some of your motivational issues and to help you find a way to undo damage from your upbringing.

Do it now. While you are very young and can change. Wait another 10 years and it won't be easy...if it is even possible.

 

[crubbed]

If he wasn't leaving the country, I'd have a different take but since he is, I don't think you'll get anything out of meeting him in person. It's not going to evolve into anything more than it is now even if he does like you since he's moving away and long distance almost never works, especially if it's seperate countries

You see, he wants to leave the country because he's in the closet here. That's his plan. But we all know how things change. I'm not saying I'd want him to change his plans because of me. What I'm saying is that you never know where life takes you. Maybe I'll find a job in Spain. I want to give it a try because he seems worth it...

ALSO: I officially request a full-color normal sized picture of you and a full-color normal sized picture of him so that I can picture the situation more true-to-life.

I don't understand, Tex... is this sarcasm? Does the situation sound too outlandish? I apologize, I'm not really getting it.

Hey, you know that guy that stalks you that all your coworkers talk about and make fun of you about ("look, your stalker is here!") well, I'm not that hot guy in my profile pic you've been jacking off to, I'm actually that creepy guy that goes to your bar and stares at you the whole time i'm there.

ROTFL, yeah pretty much! That's the basic situation.

It's just now that you just sit in the corner and stare or whatever it is you do, then it becomes awkward.

You're right, but the 'creep in the corner' thing happened only once (yesterday). I don't go there every day. Well, at least not until this week, since I wanted to wind it up.

If I remember correctly, he's still in the closet right? I don't think it's a wise idea to contact him at the bar because you might blow his cover, hence it will put you in an unfavorable situation with him

Exactly. That must be why he's so elusive.

Because if this guy really like/love your alias then he will not be interested in talking to the real you. Because in his mind, he has this person that he trusts and talks to and have feeling for online, why would he start chatting with some other new dude?

But Armand doesn't give him the time of the day... he's a waste of time.

even worse if you mention that you've been shadowing him at the bar. Only make you look like a freak and a loser to him (not trying to offend you here).

No offense taken. I've thought about the concept of 'freak' today. Let's assume you're a closeted bartender. And a hot guy starts going to your bar, sitting at the tables. Sometimes you catch him staring at you and other people, maybe because he's bored, or he is nosy, or he set his eyes on you. But he's a major hottie. Would you call him a freak?

The reason I bring this up is that in my mind the concept of 'freak' is connected to a man who also has vile looks. He looks sleazy and untrustworthy. I'm not like that. Actually, today I was even told I have a very good body (which boosted my self esteem). I'm clean and healthy. Will that help me not to come off as a freak/creep/stalking wacko?

Your situation is a bit different than mine because your guy is moving to Spain? when exactly? Time might not be on your side here. Even if you end your alias, and trying to him talk to him as yourself without telling him about your alias, do you think you have enough time to make a good impression before he moves?

He would like to leave in September.

I'm not telling you what to do since this is your story, your life. But I still strongly suggest that you be honest with him (option B). He will be mad and disappointed and probably won't talk for you for weeks or even months. But at least he will know that you are a nice person, an honest person, someone who cares enough about him to do this. And maybe as time passed, he will forgive you and rekindle and start where you guys left off.

I'm taking it into serious consideration. Maybe it's because I can't get enough drama in my life? It's possible.

Well good luck. I'm done with my 2 cents lol.

Your help has been more valuable than 2 cents! Thank you.

Jesus.
You're not getting it are you.
Just stop with the lies and deception.
There is no way that you can come out of this well given the approach you're taking.
Too many plans.
Too many machinations.

Rareboy, what plans? Everything I'm planning to do is based on good intentions... no more deceptions. My fake alias is dead. Of course I am still a calculating person, and I'm trying to foresee his moves, but what else can I do? I've never found a person like him, I don't want to loose him...

There is something pathological about this and I have to say that you need to get this type of behaviour under control before you think it is an acceptable pattern throughout your life.

Your final paragraph is a dead giveaway. This isn't about conning some guy. This is a cry for help.

I think you need to sit down with a behavioural therapist to sort through some of your motivational issues and to help you find a way to undo damage from your upbringing.

Do it now. While you are very young and can change. Wait another 10 years and it won't be easy...if it is even possible.

I did that. Nobody understands me. You're right, I should see someone. But I don't have the money. Plus, the experts I have met... omg, they were so clueless. I went to 3 shrinks. They all were women. The first one was very warm-hearthed, I connected with her. But I sensed she could not understand me. The other two were, ugh, absolutely incompetent.

I am a writer, and sometimes I loose touch with reality. I know it. It led me to do some compromising things a few years ago. My psyche is twisted and I see it when I am put in stressful situations.

---

Today it fell flat. We crossed ways while he was entering the mall (the bar is in a mall) and I was leaving [obviously I was conveniently leaving because I had seen him arrive]. I hoped we would stop for a second and chat. But, again, he was elusive, he smiled and greeted me and ran towards the bar and that was it. I was so disappointed. I went back inside because it started raining. I did not go to the bar. I took shelter elsewhere, and I started chatting with a 40-year-old man. He was funny. He plucked out of me that I was there for love (= for a 'girl'). He reassured me, he told me that there are plenty of those out there, and told me about his love life (he has an ex wife, a girl from her, now a 26-year-old girlfriend who gave him a baby boy and now has left him for a rich lawyer. Way to go!)

There's this new guy online. His name is Sage. We've chatted a few times. He's super handsome, but there's something weird about his personality. I'll see if I'll get to know him better. Now hear this: he's seen the real me and not fake pictures. Pretty exciting, huh?

But I don't know if I'm completely done with Mark, the bartender. Not yet.

 

[OTHFan]

You can't start a relationship on lies and deceit. the trust automatically goes away and without that you have nothing. If you want him so bad, be honest with him about everything and if he still wants to talk to you, then maybe you guys could have something. I know if I was him, I probably wouldn't want anything to do with you after what you did.

 

[hotb0d]

I don't know what you or your bartender look like but I guess if I'm a bartender and there's a hot guy staring at me, I guess that wouldn't make him a freak, just a hot freak lol. I have to ask though....do you actually like this Mark? Or is it the feeling or idea of liking someone?

You know how I have a similar situation as you right? well for what it worth. I talked to my guy today and everything is clear. It's water under the bridge. We're friends again after 3 weeks of excruciating silent from him. I'm relieved and happy again.

 

[CenTex22]

I don't understand, Tex... is this sarcasm? Does the situation sound too outlandish? I apologize, I'm not really getting it.

Nope, I'm just a visual person and so I like to see pictures of the people / places I'm discussing. I think that appearances help to understand/empathize with people to a strong degree - read a book by it's cover, if you will. Like when I bitched and moaned on this site about friends, I included a picture because I think it helps people to "know" me better and understand my situation more clearly.

 

[Fishstix]

There's this new guy online. His name is Sage. We've chatted a few times. He's super handsome, but there's something weird about his personality. I'll see if I'll get to know him better. Now hear this: he's seen the real me and not fake pictures. Pretty exciting, huh?

But I don't know if I'm completely done with Mark, the bartender. Not yet.

I'm glad to hear it. This is the direction that's healthy and good for you. Get to know him and forget about Mark. This guy has seen you for who you are and likes you. You haven't lied to him about anything so you have nothing to hide so you're not stuck in a messy situation like with Mark.

You'll get over Mark sooner or later. The quicker you distance yourself from him and meet other guys, the quicker you'll get over him. You're wasting your time dwelling on him and it's not going anywhere. Sage is your new start and if he doesn't work, just move on to someone else. Don't give up and keep trying and sooner or later you'll find your match.