Ukraine in Revolution

[TX-Beau]

Um, it's not theirs, so how can they "lose" it?...

I'm not so sure Putin sees it that way. Unfortunately my knowledge of this is talking head based so I don't really know what the Crimea means to the average Russian, or if the average Russian was the Soviet Union back, but I suspect the government would like it back.

 

[palbert]

As reported on The Guardian Live Blog at 6:30 PM ET (US):

A spokesman for the Ukrainian border service has said that said eight Russian transport planes landed in Crimea Peninsula in southern Ukraine with unknown cargo.

Serhiy Astakhov told The Associated Press that the Il-76 planes arrived unexpectedly ....

Source Link: http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-russia-of-taking-over-airports-live-updates

I think Putin regards the Crimea as historically part of Russia. He probably dates his belief back to the time of the Romanovs, if not before.

 

[TX-Beau]

Did the Romanovs own the Crimea? For some reason I thought it was part of the Hapsburg Empire.

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Or maybe the Ottomans...

HA! Maybe all of them.

 

[Jack Springer]

It will be very interesting to see how Obama responds.

He can't use military force.

 

[TX-Beau]

Of course he can, but he won't.

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Tell us, why is this about Obama?

 

[palbert]

Did the Romanovs own the Crimea? For some reason I thought it was part of the Hapsburg Empire.

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Or maybe the Ottomans...

HA! Maybe all of them.

Pretty much everybody:

The territory of Crimea was conquered and controlled many times throughout its history. The Cimmerians, Greeks, Scythians, Goths, Huns, Bulgars, Khazars, the state of Kievan Rus', Byzantine Greeks, Kipchaks, Ottoman Turks, Golden Horde Tatars and the Mongols all controlled Crimea in its earlier history. In the 13th century, it was partly controlled by the Venetians and by the Genovese; they were followed by the Crimean Khanate and the Ottoman Empire in the 15th to 18th centuries, the Russian Empire in the 18th to 20th centuries, Germany during World War II and the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and later the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, within the Soviet Union during the rest of the 20th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

 

[geep2b]

not responsive to the above post, but bbc I providing good coverage

 

[VXQZ69]

Another fake manufactured "Revolution"!

 

[Jack Springer]

Obama just threatened Russia this afternoon in a special address.

Like it or not Obama is the leader of the real world ... it doesn't matter that most people around the world don't respect him ... he still has obligations.

 

[TX-Beau]

OBAMA IS THE LEADER OF THE REAL WORLD!

I had no idea. What a coup for MTV.

 

[xbuzzerx]

... it doesn't matter that most people around the world don't respect him ...

You are free to engage in this view of the world if you like, as little as it resembles the actual reality. There is absolutely no comparison between the world community's view of this President and our last one.

 

[Jack Springer]

You are free to engage in this view of the world if you like, as little as it resembles the actual reality. There is absolutely no comparison between the world community's view of this President and our last one.

He's in the negative territory same as Bush was.

Obama threatened something today -- can anyone tell us what it was?

It also appears that maybe Romney was correct about Russia being America's biggest problem. I'm guessing that when Obama puts his head on his pillow tonight he might be thinking the same thing -- I expect the conversation was interesting around the Romney dinner table this evening remember debate number 3.

 

[xbuzzerx]

^ This derailment off the topic has gone far enough already. If you want to bash Obama mindlessly for his policy on Russia, make a thread for it.

 

[Jack Springer]

^ This derailment off the topic has gone far enough already. If you want to bash Obama mindlessly for his policy on Russia, make a thread for it.

So we'll try something new ... sit on the sidelines and watch a country go under domination by a dictatorship.

... back to the 1930's -- that turned out very well, didn't it.

 

[ChickenGuy]

I have to agree with Jack Springer on this one, I found Obama's recent bland pronouncements on this issue to be fundamentally uninspiring, weak, and non-committal. I would say the same for all European leaders' responses too.

BOTTOM LINE: If Putin chooses, he knows he could launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and Obama's administration wouldn't lift a finger militarily to assist - and nor would the E.U. That isn't standing up for human rights, and isn't what I would expect especially from the President of the United States, but then again Obama dithered on the Syria issue too and allowed Putin to dictate the terms.

There's past precedent for this a few years ago when Putin annexed parts of the territory of Georgia and made them Russian enclaves - a situation which persists to this day.

SAME tactic - get the Russian inhabitants in whatever country to manufacture a fake persecution complex, thereby providing an excuse for a military invasion and takeover.

If U.S.A. and Europe don't respond in kind or at least in a forceful and forward-acting manner, then Putin will just gladly take the initiative every time. And win every time.

 

[xbuzzerx]

BOTTOM LINE: If Putin chooses, he knows he could launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and Obama's administration wouldn't lift a finger militarily to assist - and nor would the E.U. That isn't standing up for human rights, and isn't what I would expect especially from the President of the United States, but then again Obama dithered on the Syria issue too and allowed Putin to dictate the terms.

In total honesty-- Obama had no legs below the knees to make any kind of a hardline stance or action about Syria because the public simply did not care enough about the issue. Even the liberals here in CE&P as well as out in the national community were blasting Obama for what sounded like a leadup to some kind of intervention, and were patently against it. And naturally, whether Obama is willing to intervene or not, it will be the wrong decision as far as Jack Springer and all Republicans will be concerned. That goes without saying.

To be blunt, I don't know that the public will exists to support the stance you're saying our leaders should be making. People simply don't care enough.

 

[EastMed]

Ukraine is bitterly divided between its pro EU east and its pro Russia west and south. Will the centre hold? It’s too early to say. Ukraine appears to be facing two equally unpalatable futures:
• If it aligns to Russia it will continue to have oligarchy and authoritarianism
• If it aligns to the EU it will get oligarchy and neoliberalism


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/ukraine-genuine-revolution-tackle-corruption

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/29/ukraine-fascists-oligarchs-eu-nato-expansion

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/22131-ukraine-go-west-young-man-or-dr-strangeloves-revenge

 

[Jack Springer]

In total honesty-- Obama had no legs below the knees to make any kind of a hardline stance or action about Syria because the public simply did not care enough about the issue. Even the liberals here in CE&P as well as out in the national community were blasting Obama for what sounded like a leadup to some kind of intervention, and were patently against it. And naturally, whether Obama is willing to intervene or not, it will be the wrong decision as far as Jack Springer and all Republicans will be concerned. That goes without saying.

To be blunt, I don't know that the public will exists to support the stance you're saying our leaders should be making. People simply don't care enough.

The world will then stand silent and ignore Putin as he rebuilds the Soviet Union.

 

[palbert]

Putin has asked the Russian Parliament to approve sending Russian troops into Crimea.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has asked the upper house of parliament to approve sending armed forces to Ukraine’s Crimea region, the Kremlin said in a statement on Saturday.
“In connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots, and the personnel of the armed forces of the Russian Federation on Ukrainian territory (in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea) ... I submit a proposal on using the armed forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine until the normalisation of the socio-political situation in the that country,” the statement said.

Reuters, quoted in theguardian.com live blog

Meanwhile the US is trying to figure out what is going on (although they probably know more than they're letting on). http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/28/politics/ukraine-u-s-intelligence/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[skinIsIn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoney_War

Deja Vu all over again!

Instead of "Why Die for Danzig?" It's "Why Get Killed for Kiev?" Or "why Krieg for Crimea?"

Only this time it's not, "While England Sleeps" it's "While EUROPE Sleeps!!"

Frankly we've been overdue for a Eurasian Powder-keg to catch fire!
How apropos, (Feb. 28) four months to the day before the anniversary of:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria

Those ignorant to history are doomed to repeat it!