Undying love for my best friend...please read(long

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

You're entitled your opinion strangelittle boy, but it's that kind of fear which is keeping these two people who are meant to be together apart. Bri needs less fear, not more.

Andy is not having grief over the abortion, he's having grief over the fact that Brian doesn't love him, when in fact Brian does love him. Ergo, the way to fix Andy's problem is for Brian to tell him that he loves him. If Brian gets scared and puts it off, then the problem will get worse, not better.

Good luck Brian, I just hope you know that you can really trust Andy.

BTW, when I told the second guy I was in love with him, he was also going through a lot of stress. Like Andy, he wasn't getting along with his wife because he loved me more, but couldn't say it. He couldn't get a job because she was so jealous, anyplace he worked at she thought he was checking out the girls there. His dad has diabetes and was about to have his legs amputated back home. He couldn't pay his rent, he couldn't get back home...serious money problems. I had a job offer for him, which was to do some porn shoots...which she kiboshed, because she was jealous of the fact that I was more attracted to him than to her. They fought constantly, and loudly. She was always threatening to kick him out, but wouldn't do it because she knew he's just come over to my place and not come back.

He was under plenty of stress, believe me. As much or more stress than Andy is right now.

When I told him, it was too much for him to really answer to right then, and he did not say he loved me back, only sort of uncomfortably said that it didn't bother him. I could have been really disappointed...but I knew, I KNEW that he loved me. Even if he couldn't say it, he was quite clear in his hints and body language (Him: "Every one that gets out of jail is gay". Me and his Wife: "Wha?" Him: "I don't know why I said that." Well, I know why he said that.)

But then because he knew that I loved him, he totally opened up to me in a personal way. He was never able to say "I love you" back, but he became the most sensitive, caring friend I've had until the day I left. We became much closer. And it was a big help to him to know that someone loved him. He may not have been able to say it...

We grew closer every day after that, because he knew he could get safely closer. It was hard for him to open up, and he still hasn't in the sense that he hasn't told me that he loves me. But I know that he does, even though he's still living with his wife.

And my guy doesn't love me even a fraction as much as Andy loves brian. my guy never vomited when we were apart, or told me that he was heartbroken that I wasn't there, or anything that even comes close to the love that Andy has shown Brian.

Not to mention the fact that Andy has said several times that he knows and that he's cool with it, no matter what the outcome is. Right now he knows his best friend is holding back something important, something that he wants to hear very much.

Of course Brian should console Andy about the abortion first. But the problem is that Brian does not yet have the confidence to do this. If Andy talks about the abortion and Brian gets upset, they'll be on diff pages again. THEY MUST GET ON THE SAME PAGE before they can move forward. Before it's too late...cuz if they don't they're just going to agrue and drift further apart.

BTW, I had another friend actually, he was in fact the first guy I ever really fell in love with. I told him but he wasn't able to admit that he had feelings back for 10 years. Telling him was till the right thing to do, because up til then he had no idea what we were fighting about.

Brian, you must trust Andy!

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Also, let's just look at this abortion thing...why in god's name is that indicative of Andy being straight an/or not interested in Brian? If they HAD the baby, THAT would be maybe more worrisome.

Sam, my first guy, had a girl on the side he had fucked a couple of times and she had his kid, that was a running thing while we were going through our shit. You think an abortion is bad? I had to look at ultrasound. I had to meet the kid. He didn't even want the kid at the time. Did I mention I hooked him up with his current wife? At a party where I thought maybe we'd get back together, I ended up introducing them to each other by mistake? And now he has a kid he actually wants with her, and a happy fambly that I can never be part of?

The second guy, Joe...after he moved back to Duluth with his WIFE, he and his WIFE had another baby....so he'd be even more stuck with her. So now whenever I call the first thing I have to ask now is how his kid is. Instead of getting upset that he's still with her and is making babies, I notice that he's not very enthusiastic because I know where he'sd rather be. He doesn't even want to be a father, he wants to be a long haul truck driver.

So at least Andy's girl had an abortion...it's a damn sight better than either of my situations, where neither guy was even a fraction as gay as Andy, not even a fraction in love with me as Andy is for Brian, and they both have kids. Andy doesn't want kids, he wants Brian.

 

[GayBoiJared]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Guys, maybe we need to back off Brian for a while, cause we have put a big expectation on him. It must be a bit stressful to come back here and post about his dilemma when everyone is expecting him to deal with it in a certain way. While everyone is entitled to their opinions, Brian is the only one who has the full experience of his situation. At the end of the day it is Brian's decision and while I am sure he appreciates and takes to heart everything we have been saying, it is HIS big decision and we need to support him in whatever it is that he decides to do. We don't know for sure what we would do in his shoes, cause we don't know the full story, as words can only explain half of what he has gone through, the rest only he will know...

Just a thought.
J.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I actually totally agree. Good luck Brian, you know we wish you all the best. We've all put our advice in...now all we can do is cross our fingers.

 

[Just_Believe18]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Having been a lurker to this thread for some time, I feel as if I am the only one who thinks, "Doesn't this entire situation reek of unnecessary drama?" It feels like a roller coaster of ups and downs that would rival even the most melodramatic soap opera. The Original Poster has serious emotional problems (not saying to be mean, but with absolute sincerity) and I feel many of you are feeding these unhealthy emotions with much attention. This is not a flame, but a plea of genuine concern.

Ultimately it comes down to what he wants to do. If he wants to continue to suffer by ignoring everyone else's pleas to just tell his "straight" friend he loves him, then that is his drama. He is obviously miserable not telling him. I agree with the above that the forum needs to back off. If he wants to finally do something about his problems, then support should be offered again.

Vegas,
Tell your friend the reason you have been so miserable, so emotional yet obsessively loyal is because you love him. You are obviously damaging the friendship anyway with your fits of jealousy. Just say it, and end your torment. No matter the outcome, you will be free. And this thread won't have to grow into fifty pages of the same rhetoric.

 

[LostVegas]

Update

Last night was the night that I finally told my buddy that I love him.


I had called him back after I hung up on him.

I left two messages.

He called me back later in the evening. I apologized for not being more supportive with what he had told me about his girl. He said it was absolutely no problem, and he understands and would never be mad at something like that.

We talked a lot. Usual type stuff. Then it started to get more serious. My depression was starting to show and he asked me whats wrong.

I told him I have something that has been bothering me and I need to tell him. After much prodding of what the problem is..my buddy said "Jjust say it...say it..Bri just say it...theres nothing you could say that would make me hate or not talk to you...in fact I went through all the scenarios in my head..and Im pretty sure what it is..when you told me that you are afraid for our friendship after you tell me what it is...I pretty much figured out what it was..you can talk to me...Im getting down and stressed because you are not telling me..just tell me Bri..say it.."

He said that he told me the hardest thing he ever had to tell me so I should tell him. I said "you mean what you told me about the abortion..?" He goes screw that Im talking about when I confessed to you that when I first knew you I was using you a little for your money.."


I said "buddy...I let myself and my heart have feeings for you..." He said "what?"..I said "I let my heart have feelings for you and I started to love you.."

He said that he guessed right in terms of what the problem was and sensed it. He said that its a little odd hearing it, but that it wouldnt change anything..He also said that hes far from beign gay but that he loves me and thinks more of me than anyone...he asked how long has this been going on..I said a while...He asked if this is what has been causing me to pull away from him..I said yes.

I cried and cried as I was explaining some stuff to him. I told him it is hard to be gay..and that living this life is hard. I said I was very down over this...I told him I tried and tried to not let my heart feel that way but I couldnt help it...

I said sometimes and lately I have been feeling down about why I was born this way and how it has afected my life..He said "why dont you just be straight then?"

I satrted to cry and cry and I told him ok buddy its getting late....he said if I ever need him to talk about anything that he is here for me..

I cried after I got off the phone with him..I called him back and let it ring once. Thats our little code thing we have with each other when tisl ate..we let it ring once to let the other one know its us..He called me back and I sobbed to him...and told him I was bothered by what he said..I told him I cant be straight...and with the pressure society puts on you and the way people judge gay people..wouldnt you think I would be straight in a heartbeat...life would be so much easier...I said my parents and some therapist I have been seeing have been making me rethink and "training" me not to be gay...

He said buddy you have to live your life, with whats going to make you happy. He said the people I am aroudn in NYC are affecting me in a bad way.

He asked if Matt knew about this problem I have been having and I said no. He asked if I feel this way for Matt and I said no,thats its just sex...and he asked if Matt knew that...I said yes.

I cried and cried and he begged me to stop..he said he hates seeing or hearing me cry. He said hes glad I got it off my chest so now I can move on from it an not keep it a secret anymore. I sobbed so much at this point I had to hang up. I was in such pain.

He called me back and asked how I was doing..I said not too good...He said what are you doing..i told him running a shower and making breakfast...he goes..why dont you take the day off..I think you need it...and I started crying..I go I just might..he then goes why dont you book that flight and come down here with me for a week.." He goes wouldnt you like that? I go yeah and started to bawl...I cried a lot more and he just listened...He said again...just stay home and book the flight, stay for a few days or a week...I started crying again...and my buddy started laughing and I just laughed too with him and cried at the same time....I told him I had to go..and thank you for everything. He said thank you.

He said whoever I meet and spend my life with will be the luckiest guy on earth. I told him Id be lucky to meet someone who is only a fraction of the man he is..Then we both hung up.

I am happy I told him. I still cant believe I told him though. I feel like I should be happier than this..But I am not..I guess it will take a while...


Talk to you more later I guess.brian

 

[halubtsi]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, I'm happy that you were able to get all of this off your chest. Now he also knows why you pull away. And if you pull away in the future, he'll know the reason. With all this, you might be able to move forward now.

You said you should be happier? But are you happy? Do you feel content at least?

 

[GayBoiJared]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, I am really sorry about the way it turned out, but I still don't think he is being truthful. I think he just doesn't understand what it is he is feeling. I have seen it before, a dude has sex with another guy, has a relationship with him, but doesn't believe that he is gay. But that is another story and something Andy has to work out. At least now you know where you stand and you can move on with your life.

I can't tell you how sorry I feel for you right now, but it is for the best. At least you won't get your hopes up anymore.

Hope you feel better soon.

J.

 

[NameTaken]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Thank god you finally told him. Good for you! I must admit I wasn't expecting him to be straight when you told him though. But aren't you glad you did it? It mus tbegreat to have it off your chest and know that it won't affect the friendship at all! He even invited you to spend a week with him, so he's obviously 100% fine with it. IF you had told him any later it might have been too late to keep the friendship as good as it seems to be now.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

The happiness will come. No matter what you told yourself, deep down you wanted to hear what CGHJ has been fantasizing for you: that Andy would drop everything and come to you and you'd be together forever in love and as lovers. I kept hoping that, too, and that's just as a spectator. That's not what you heard, so of course you're sad.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were a little angry, either. I was already angry with the people here who were so darned sure he was gay and just waiting for you to say it. Too many gay guys read into other what they want to see! We all do it sometimes, some do it 'way too much. If you're angry, admit it; you have a right to be -- partly with yourself, even, possibly. Do something that burns anger -- throwing rocks, splitting wood, burning a thousand rounds with my .22, are things that work for me -- and get it out of your system.

Go have a cry with Matt. I know he's not bf material to you, but if he's kool enough to have sex with, he's kool enough to be a buddy you can get wasted and cry it out. He doesn't have to understand, or even talk, just be there with you and share the minutes.

Spend some time thinking about an earlier post here (maybe a different thread?), by GayBoiJared, IIRC, that it's nice to see one of these best friend things with a happy ending. Yours isn't as happy as you would have liked, but it didn't end the way a lot do: losing the friend forever. You've still got an incredible treasure, a friend like most people never have had and probably never will.

It'll settle out, you and Andy will be able to joke about it, and the happiness will return. Don't worry if it doesn't happen over night, or in a week, or even a month. You've been under the stress of this for a LONG time, and finally it's out, and it'll take a while for the residues to disappear. Don't get down on yourself if they don't right away.

Last thing: take that flight! If you don't have the bucks, I say we start passing the hat here on JUB... gotta be a way to do that.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hallelujah! I get to keep my balls.

I still maintain that he loves you. So, please take my next piece of advice: Back way off on the love stuff now, and bring him to you with actions, not words. Believe me, even if he can't come to terms with it yet, he has thought about it, and he is thinking about you. What will win him over comepletely is if you are just a wonderful and supportive person. Make it clear that you understand that he can't go there...but also make it clear that there will always be a space reserved for him if he should ever change his mind.

Meanwhile, no matter what, you have an amazing friend who's reaction to the big news was "come out and stay with me." You're a little let down just because this took so much of your energy that him not being able to say I love you back (in that way) seems like a deflation...look at the glass as half full right now.

You must be a really awesome guy Brian for him to love you this much in the first place...just keep on being awesome, make his life better, and he won't be able to help loving you.

That's if you want that to happen...when I first met up with this thread, the goal was just to tell him...you didn't want to break him and his girl up, you just wanted him to know and not have this terrible secret. That goal had now been achieved...not only were you able to tell him, not only was he able to take it, but he still wants you to visit him.

You may find that once you're reunited...and you have some time alone together...face to face again, now that there's no secrets...


...give him some time to think about it. Don't lay any more on him right now. Thanks him for being so wonderful. Go to Las Vegas, be the very best friend you can be, treat him like a king...and even if nothing more ever comes of it, you have a wonderful friend that you're keeping no secrets from. It's win/win for yu from here on out.

Honestly, I'm so happy for you Brian. Congratulations!!

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Thank you all...but I have been crying since I got home..work took my mind off things but I cannot seem to deal..Im happy we are best friends still..of course...but the pain is too overbearing...I feel very lost..I feel like I will never meet anyone like Andy again...Im in pain....im empty...not angry really..just disappointed and alone. Why is my life so hard? Why?

 

[tommy296]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, Wow - you've come so far in such a short amount of time and I hope you are as proud of yourself as I am of you. It took guts to tell him and you really stepped up.

I'm sorry it didn't go how you wanted (or how we all wanted it for you) but really, the only thing that's changed is that you can be honest with him and not fret about losing his friendship. That has to be a huge weight off of your shoulders.

Now, you can't change your parents, but have you considered changing therapists to one who is helping you be yourself rather than make you into something you're not? Therapy can be a great help, but really, it sounds like this is the wrong therapist for you. You're a great guy that simply needs to embrace the good things about yourself, not change what you are to fit your parents wants. I won't ramble on about this here, but give that some thought.

Again, my thoughts are with you and I hope this all works out for the best for you.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

How funny, some people are sad for you, some people are happy.

GayBoiJared is right though, he does have feelings for you, he just can't come to terms with them yet.

Next time he says, "If were to ever change teams, I'd have to be the man," don't change the subject, tell him you'd love for him to be the man.

Long after Sam and I had gone through our thing, after we had established that he was straight, after we'd fought and after we'd reconciled after that...he came up to my room one day and announced that he's been thinking about it, and he figured that an ass would be tighter than a pussy. Of course this is where I should have said, well, let's test that.

Another friend who knows full well that I'm hot for him and I know full well he's curious as hell about me, but who has a girlfriend that I adore, told me that guys like him just need a little push. I'm sure I could have just leaned over and stuck my hands down his pants at that moment, but his girl is like a sister to me and they actually DO belong together, he'd just be a fling for me, and that's a bad reason to fuck with a relationship.

Hell, for all we know, Andy might just be scared that he'll have to be the bitch

try not to get too hung up on it though. You may find that, now that you've finally admitted it...your intense feelings of love fade and are replaced by intense feelings of friendship. you haven't been able to deal with your feelings of love because there was always that what if...now that you've admitted it and can start dealing with your feelings more rationally, you may find that what you really were was focused on the situation too much.

I actually found that once I told my guys, the feeling subsided and I was able to move on...even when I knew they were interested and I could take it further, it's just a pain in the ass to play psychology like that. You have a friendship that makes you one of the richest, luckiest men in the whole world. Many people go through their lives and never have a friend that good. Hell, I've had some great friends and I've never had a friend that cared about me that much. You still won the lottery.

In fact, I'm on record as saying that brotherly love is more intense and long-lasting than sexual love. Perhaps with a little time you will realize that you're actually better off with a brother like Andy, than a lover like Andy.

Again, congratulations on telling him. That took a lot of balls and I'm very proud of you. You did really well brian, really really well.

And I think he's right...take a day off and go to the park. Soak up some sun or whatever it is you guys do in Brooklyn. And keep us posted, we care!

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Thank you all...but I have been crying since I got home..work took my mind off things but I cannot seem to deal..Im happy we are best friends still..of course...but the pain is too overbearing...I feel very lost..I feel like I will never meet anyone like Andy again...Im in pain....im empty...not angry really..just disappointed and alone. Why is my life so hard? Why?

I recommend you take a day off and go to a spa or something. Something that will help you destress.

It's been so much stress for you, so many intense emotions, that it's just going to be really intense for you for a while. Just cry it out.

With Sam, I wanted so bad to be with him physically, that I ignored what a great friend he was. You can be with Andy...the relationship you two have is way gayer than most gay relationships I've ever heard of...you're already in a more intense relationship than I've ever been. Just concentrate on the half-fullness of your glass.

Also, I felt that I would never meet anyone like Sam again...and I met Joe, and had to through it all over again. It's a part of life...so many people have to deal with it, without the benefit of a friend like Andy.

Good luck, I wish I could be there so you could cry on my shoulder.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, Wow -

Now, you can't change your parents, but have you considered changing therapists to one who is helping you be yourself rather than make you into something you're not? Therapy can be a great help, but really, it sounds like this is the wrong therapist for you. You're a great guy that simply needs to embrace the good things about yourself, not change what you are to fit your parents wants. I won't ramble on about this here, but give that some thought.

I caught that then didn't comment.

Tommy, you're right. Brian, listen up: if that therapist is trying to "change" you, right now ANDY is a better therapist than whoever it is you're seeing! You've got grief and pain right now that DON'T need to be complicated by the foolishness they engage in, trying to make someone "normal". And even if this doc says you don't have to work on that, get out anyway; anyone who WILL try to change you still has it in the grey matter. So ditch that, before YOUR grey matter gets all screwed up.

In fact, if this therapist is a psychologist or psychiatrist, REPORT the bugger! They're not supposed to do that any more!

Heck, I'll confidently claim that *I'm* a better therapist than anyone who will buy the old torture game of trying to make a homosexual "normal".

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Dude, I did not even catch that!! Change therapists!!! Change therapists!!! You don't have to stand for that, not by a long shot!!

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Thank you all...but I have been crying since I got home..work took my mind off things but I cannot seem to deal..Im happy we are best friends still..of course...but the pain is too overbearing...I feel very lost..I feel like I will never meet anyone like Andy again...Im in pain....im empty...not angry really..just disappointed and alone. Why is my life so hard? Why?

I read this again and the pain seemed to reach out from the screen and grab me. Hurts BAD, doesn't it? You stuck out your hand, and though he didn't, it feels like he bit your whole arm off. But sticking out your hand, and having him shake his head, is worse. It just aches and aches, and the only relief from the ache is when it hurts so much you want to rip your own guts out so the pain will stop.

Why is your life so hard? It comes from the world not being what it was meant to be. That sounds kinda cheap, but why else is there pain? You didn't want to freak Andy out, and he SURE as heck didn't want to hurt you, but there it is -- you're in pain, not because you did anything wrong, but because you did what was right, and, well, the pieces just don't fit.
It took me a while to absorb what I'm gonna tell you, when a wise man told me, but here it comes:
That pain is a gift. Most people never get to hurt that much -- because most people can't love that much. You hurt that much because you have a big heart, a very big heart; only big hearts can reach out so far and so deep that there can be that much pain. A wound can only go that deep if there's the depth for it to go to. A little heart has only a little love, and only gives little hurts.
And while it seems you lost what was most precious to you, so it hurts enough you think you're going to fall over dead, no heart that big is going to not find someone else to wrap itself around. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not this year, but sometime you'll find someone, because big hearts do that.

Bri, I'd be honored to be on the receiving end of the heart you have -- and when others get to know you, there will be some who feel the same way. Will you ever find someone like Andy again? No -- and you wouldn't want to! There's just one Andy in all of Creation, and he's your best friend. Will you find someone else who your heart will wrap itself around like with Andy? I won't promise that; this isn't a fairy tale where we get to live happily ever after. But your heart WILL wrap itself around someone else, be confident of that.

Meanwhile, get with Andy. Cry your heart out. The tears won't take the pain away, but they help. And if Andy's the kind of guy he seems to be, those tears on his shoulder, or in his lap, or on his chest, will be received as a gift. Go give it.

 

[halubtsi]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Kulindahr, that was amazing. And I agree with what you said in your pep-talk. Brian definitely does have a big heart. He's deserving of someone who'll love him as much as he loves Andy.

 

[Lestat62]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian,

I really don't know what to say except sorry. That wasn't the way I thought it would turn out. But at least you've gotten it off your chest and you know the answer. Please just promise me that you won't do anything to yourself. I know you told me before that you wouldn't hurt yourself but you sound very depressed. Before you get to this point, please call somebody. Call CGHJ, call me, talk in person to someone other than Andy for a minute or two.

Joe.