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Undying love for my best friend...please read(long

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Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Kulindahr, your post #480 above is simply amazing. You are so right-on in every respect. LostVegas, please go back up and re-read and re-read it. There's so much wisdom packed in such a small space.

I'm sorry Andy did not reciprocate by being in love with you. The pain you're feeling is as real as it is intense. Perhaps he is and will come around; perhaps he's not and never will. Time will tell, but time is marching on and you are now at the beginning of the healing process.

Whereever that leads, we are here with you. There are dozens of wonderful guys here who have followed your story faithfully. We feel like we know you and could hang with you at any neighborhood watering hole. Lean on us. Most of us have been through this ourselves, and we know, first-hand, the crushing disappointment of loving someone who cannot love us back in the same way.

Spend some time with yourself, pamper yourself, and let the healing process begin. You're a good man with a big heart. Happiness will come to you. I promise.
(*8*)
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey all just an update on ME for once..

My buddy called me today and asked how I was feeling..I said not bad..which at the time was true. :D

He said that he wants me out there and I could easily come there..he said he doesnt want me here because NYC and the people around me are messing up my head.

Regardless I told him I am here till at least summer and probably till next summer..I have to get my schooling done. Its my career and for me to get top pay I have to do it. I also have been considering the Cali option recently.

I sounded more positive to him, which in an odd way gets him down, sort of like ying and yang..He said my mind is being messed up here..I said true..I also told him "Buddy I told you all my secrets, all my pain and my soul...I was really messed up the last decade and half of my life, now its time for me to focus on getting healthy"

He asked me whats up, what am I doing and I should go out...He goes "it must be a nice day there?" My andy said he was going to go sit by the pool where he lives and take the sun..I know in an odd way hes trying to make me jealous about the perks of Vegas and I love him for it, hes fighting for me to come there and thats so cool. I really do want to go there. I told him its not about a Vegas thing its about being near you..I want you near me...he said the same...

He kind of cut the call short oddly enough but he said he would call later...I do notice the pain lifting a little..I just need to focus on me, my health, my mind..meeting other people, etc


I thanked him so much for coming into my life and for allowing me to talk to him about myself..I thanked him for not judging me and for making me feel like family, when others would not.

Me and Matt are no longer going out. The relationship was not meaningful. He is a great guy, but not for me...and we will still talk..

I just wanted you ALL to know that I read all your posts and will-re-read them again and again..I am going to lay off him for a bit with all the mushy stuff and I think that will draw us closer...There will ALWAYS be that love for Andy somewhere in the depths of my heart, no matter who is in my life...and there is still a small chance Andy might have something to tell me..but the ball is in his court now with that..I no longer am going to hold onto anymore fantasies...

I came such a long way in such a short period of time and besides Andy..I have you all to thank..without your support I wouldnt have nearly made it this far....its great coming to a place where I feel welcome...

I also am treating myself to that nice expensive cell phone on my Easter break from school...why not right?

I will still post here....I would like to update you all here and there so please check back..im sure Im going to have a lot more questions...plus Im sure also I will posting my plans for going to see Andy in August..it will be here before I know it..love you guys..bri (*8*) ..|
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Andy is still in love with Brian, it's still just as obvious as it ever was, don't look at his words, look at his actions. I'm even more convinced that I was before. It's not that Andy isn't in love with him, but that A can't come to terms with his own sexuality yet.

You're doing great though dude...just keep doing what you're doing. We're past the rapids and on to calmer waters now, thank god!

When I told Joe I loved him he wasn't ready to admit it either, but his whole demeanor changed afterwards so I still know I was right. And other ways, too. Trust in what your heart says is true, your brain overanalyses stuff.

Yor bigger issue Brian is that now Andy really may want the best of both worlds. He'll want to express his love for you, without saying it and without having to go through the hardship of leaving his girl, so it may sometimes be confusing for you cuz you'll be feeling the love, but seeing him go home to his girl. If you trust in your relationship and trust that you love each other, then you can help him thru this difficult period. Patience instead of jealousy will mean that you win in the end...cuz eventally she will get jealous enough of you to cause problems for him at hime.

Short story: After I told the Second Guy (Joe) that I loved him, he indicated that he was fine with it but not interested (he said it was like if a friend told him they had robbed a bank, he just didn't judge people). I got the same no response Brian did basically. For a few days I stood back, wondering if I had been nuts. Sure, it felt like he loved me...but why was he staying with that shrew bitch when all he had to do is move next door?

She even kicked him out one night...because of a fight over me...and he slept in his camper trailer outside. I was like, WTF? Why not come over and smoke pot with me all night? And then, and THEN the next day I discovered that she had gone out and they had had make-up sex in the trailer!

He slept in the trailer because he was afraid she would find out she was right. He loved me, was happy to hear that I loved him, told me it was fine, but couldn't say it himself, even though we talked about him leaving her and making a life together. But he couldn't imagine giving up the life he knew. He was too invested in his straightness to just pop out of it. Not because he liked it...it was just too much for him to deal with. Man that made me crazy...cuz she really, really treats fim like shit.

And yet, I knew he loved me. I just knew it.

The last 3 days he was in town he was getting said camper trailer ready for the trip back. I was pretty much trying to leave him alone, because I didn't want to bother him, didn't want to be the forward gay guy...and then I realized, if he loves me, he'll be happy to spend time with me. You should have seen how his face brightened when he realized I was staying to help instead of just walkig by and saying "hi". We worked hard like men together for the next two days, and by the end we were so close that the sexual tension was enormous. The look of pure love on his face was obvious. it was a wonderful two days we spent together.

Because I knew that he loved me. Even if he couldn't say it, I knew. If I had more time I could have broken him out of his shell...unfortunately his wife threatened to withhold sex unless they had another kid, and he was, except with me, straight (she actually said she's had to warn men off Joe before, but she'd never had to warn Joe off another man).

And he never once denied that he was in love with me, even when she'd make fun of him for it in front of me. it was painful to watch, cuz on the one hand of course he wanted to deny it to her...but he couldn't deny it in front of me. And I couldn't interfere. So it was like watching her roast him on a stick.

Andy said he's "far from being gay." That, for him, is leaving the field open for further play. He doesn't have to be gay to love you. That's an identiy problem he's having...says absolutely nothing about his relationship with you. Hell, sometimes I think I'm far from being gay. Joe was certainly straight enough until he met me, and Sam was abut a str8 a football player as you could ever imagine. Your heart can see what your brain can't.

It's up to you whether you want to pursue it further. The only way you can make it possibly work is byholding back and not putting any pressure on him...he'll say a lot of things that will make you think he's not interested, but that will in fact mean the exact opposite. Can you handle that?

Can you handle splitting him and his girl up? Because if you can't, you already have the most beautiful friendship, and if you allow the just love part to grow and save the sex part for someone else, you really can spend time and grow old together and be together. And eventually his wife will get tired of being second best and he'll be your by default.

Even though I've just described how in love with you Andy really still is, there's a deep danger here. A danger that you'll want to be with him so bad that you'll pressure him through guilt, or try to manipulate him into being with you. I know because I've been there, and so far your situation and mine have been very similar..except that Andy loves you more than all my guys put together, so you are a lucky guy if you can see it.

If you want Andy, if you love Andy, if you want to be with Andy...the way to get what you want is to be very patient. How many marriages last for more than 5 years anymore? How many relationships? The stress of an abortion must be huge. How much longer can they stay together without flying apart? They're not married, they don't have kids, and Andy spends all of his emotional output on you, not to mention most of his time. They're not going to stay together forever. If you are are the wonderful, carefree, stress free, happy release for him...then when that relationship ends he will be all yours.

Is he worth the wait? Can you wait? Can you listen to him describe his problems with his wife and not flip out, but know that those problems are slowly eating away at their relationship, bringing him ever closer to you?

Your glass is half full Brian...and if you can hold on and be patient, it will keep filling up!!

You WILL be happy with Andy, you will. Please trust me.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey Brian while I was writing that long last post, you posted...it sounds like you're doing it just right. He does love you, he wants you out there...even if he can't say it, he will ACT on it, trust your heart not your head. You're right, the ball is in his court...have patience and coax that delicate flower out.

You did beautifully, Brian, we're all so proud of you! Keep it up, with love and patience, it will all work out better than you could have imagined.

Don't lay too far off the mushy stuff, he needs to be reminded that you love him. Now that you've ackknowledged it, your love will grow even. Lots and lot of "I love you and I think you're awesome" is good! "I feel like dying because I can't have you" is not. I'm not quoting directly of course, just using hyperbole to get the point across. He just has to deal with his sexuality now, and it's going to take him a little longer than it did you, cause he has a little further to walk.

He loves you, and one of the great things is that you do still get to say it to him, and mean it. He def wants to hear "I want to be close to you." You two can talk just like lovers and be as mushy as you want, and I think you should! Even if you remain just friends, you have all the benefits of being able to talk like lovers.

If anything starts to make him uncomfortable, if you go to far, he'll let you know. And it won't bother him in the long run, even if it freaks him out temporarily. He just has a lot to deal with with his own sexuality...

As always, we're standing by to help Brian!
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, I'm glad to hear that things are looking bright for you. I was worried that you hadn't responded in a while. Anyway, the big psychological roller coaster ride is over. And as you said, the ball's in Andy's court now.

Sorry to hear about Matt, but at least you recognised that he's not the one for you. And you didn't string him along because it was comfortable. Now he's free to find someone who'll love him completely.

Everything seems to be tying up nicely, like a well-weaved tapestry. Thanks for all the updates. I hope not to hear of too many "crisis" posts from you in the near future. Just "updates."

Take care buddy. (*8*)
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I do trust you and follow your advice, it is very simliar to what I was thinking anyway...if you read my post before yours...you will know I am backing off..and I can be patient and play that role...he has come to me a lot of times with his problems with his girl and I have given advice to him that has brought them back together many times...so yeah..I can and have been playing that role for him.

Im going to start living a life for me and still be there for Andy, without all the mushy stuff..I think that will make us closer. Thanks for the advice CG
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

As soon as I posted I realized you had already done just that. I think you're doing the right thing Brian, you're on track to be doing just fine.

...and I still believe with all my heart that if you can be patient and hold out, it's inevitable that you'll be together. And fuck...most people who are in a deep relationship don't have half the love you and Andy already got. You're a lucky guy.

But do get some ass on the side while you're waiting though ;)

And once again, I am so proud of you for the way you've handled it thus far. You're doing great buddy, keep it up and all will be well!
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Bri, I've nothing really to say. I don't presume to think my words could assuage the hurt you feel. I am glad, though, you decided to tell him. I'm sure it's a ton of bricks off your shoulders, replaced by an equally massive sack. Life; isn't fun?
I hope time treats you well. It does get easier, I swear.

I was driving home from work today after catching up on the thread. A song came on the radio and I thought "How apropos." So I do in the fashion of others: lyrics to follow (edited.)


I Hope You Dance - Lee Ann Womack

I hope you never lose your sense of wonder,
You get your fill to eat but always keep that hunger,
May you never take one single breath for granted,
God forbid love ever leave you empty handed,
I hope you still feel small when you stand beside the ocean,
Whenever one door closes I hope one more opens,
Promise me that you'll give faith a fighting chance,
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance.

I hope you dance

I hope you never fear those mountains in the distance,
Never settle for the path of least resistance,
Livin' like me, takin' chances, but they're worth takin',
Lovin' might be a mistake, but it's worth makin',
Don't let some Hell bent heart leave you bitter,
If you come close to sellin' out reconsider,
Give the heavens above more than just a passing glance,
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance.

I hope you still feel small when you stand beside the ocean,
Whenever one door closes I hope one more opens,
Promise me that you'll give faith a fighting chance,
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance.

I hope you dance.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CGHJ, I think you're spinning moonlight.

Before, you were all certain that Andy was just waiting to tell Brian, "I love you, too!" and abandon his girl and they'd be together happily ever after. It didn't happen.
Now, you're so certain Andy WANTS to say it but isn't ready yet. I say that's just as much a fantasy as the first one was. You're reading things into this relationship that you want to see there, because you wish they'd been there before for you.
You could be right -- but the evidence isn't there.

Brian, you're aimed right. I still think it would be great if you could go see him, if you have an Easter break or something, but if you two are doing okay -- sounds like it -- then no biggie.

... except that he asked, and I think going would be a great way to show how much you DO love him. Yeah, I think CGHJ is smokin' something, with his "Andy is GAY!" line, but on the off chance that he might be, showing him you're willing to go out to see him for a week sure isn't going to hurt! And if he isn't, it won't hurt, either; I think it would be good for both of you. In fact, if he isn't working, I think it would be good if you could go somewhere besides Vegas -- BOTH of you get away from the situations you've been stressing over.

And like I said before, if you don't have the bucks, I'm urging everyone here to help out somehow! I'm no sugar daddy, but I'll start by commiting $20 toward a ticket.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

See? You're free now. It only gets better from here on.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey K i worried about that too but I've given it an appropriate amount of serious thought. I really, trulty believe that I am still correct.

I actually did say there was a good chance he wouldn't be able to come out and say he loved him back, or that he would be in a situation where he had to stay with his girl. I promised that he was in love with Brian, I never said he's be able to say it to Brian immediately.

He was, however, able to show it, which is what counts.

Their relationship started to improve immediately, correct? Andy still wanted Brian to come to Vegas, correct? No fight about money or anything else, 'cuz now they're on the same page, just like I said. Did Andy really care about the abortion? No, he laughed it off so they could get straight to what Andy knew was bothering him. Was he relieved? Yes. Overjoyed? He may not have been able to say it...but they went from conflict to resolution as soon as Bri laid it out...he certainly wasn't unhappy about it. Not just not upset by it...am I wrong Brian that everything seemed to lighten up after that? No comments from Andy about fucking Matt, or jealousy about him being in love with someone else, neither party lashing out...

So far everything I have said has come true. Of course we all said the same thing...but I was basing my advice on what Bri should do based on the assumption that Andy loved him. If I had been wrong about that, I would have been wrong about everything else, too.

You see, lil_c_boy, my nuts were perfectly safe the whole time!

As I recall, when I first joined this thread Bri had just had a big fight and was ready to back off, and everyone said that was great and the ball was in Andy's court. Having been in this situation umpteen times, and possesing a GAYDAR that should really be protected as a national asset, I was able to sort out what was really going on, and with a little encouragement and a lot of typing, B finally was able to tell A how he felt, and A reacted just exactly like I said he would. Bri even took our advice to apologize first, which put A at ease and led to a good convo.

The fact that Bri was able to unload was no automatic guarantee that Andy would be able to. As I say, he has a lot further to walk. He may be convinced that he has to say nothing because of his situation, but secretly hopes that his girl will leave him so he won't have to be the one to do it. I don't know Andy quite well enough, to know what he's thinking. How many times did Andy point blank tell Bri it was OK and Bri choked (until now, good job buddy!). Andy is human too. He's not a robot, I have no idea what's going through his head, but that he loves Brian is clear enough.

I can't tell you how many times I have told someone that so and so was in love with them, and they were like whatever you're insane, and then I was right. I've thought about this every which way, and I am SURE. I am still sure.

However in the meantime, honestly Brian's not missing much. There's married couples that don't have half the loving relationship that Brian and Andy have. I'd pull out both my eye teeth with pliers to have something that wonderful. If Brian concentrates on the love that he has...he'll realize that he already mostly complete anyway. And I think he has.

So Brian...donn't NEED it, don't expect it, but for God's sake be open to the possibility that I'm right! And if I'm wrong...your merely left with a wonderful, amazing friend.

I'm quite sure that I'm right though. I'm also quite sure that patience is the key.

I respect that you all think that I'm keeping a false hope alive...but it's no false hope. If Brian assumes that Andy doesn't feel that strongly about him, they'll come into conflict again.

For instance, A gets jeaous of B whenever B is with another guy. Brian, never ever tell Andy about another guy you're with. Or if you do, mention how they're second best...or A will get jealous. Believe me or don't. When A has to mention his wife, be supportive and ask question. He might be pissed at her and wanting to unload, and the more he unnloads about her the more he'll realize he should be with Brian. However if A mentions his girl and Bri gets jealous, then Andy will have to hold that in and there'll be conflict.

So, what I'm saying is, is Brian knows that Andy really is still in love with him, perhaps he'll have the patience to wait. He sounds like he's be worth waiting for.

I like K's idea of both of you going someplace besides Vegas...even if it's someplace nearby...if both of you could escape your troubles together to someplace neutral. Hell, I'm broke but I'd chip in. Sound like that might be hard to do...but it's sure a good idea.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CGHJ,

I agree with Kulindahr. I feel that you are taking over LostVegas' thread and it's not right.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey Brian, I'm sorry if I seem to have taken over your thread.

I was think of posting my thoughts on what, based on my past experiences, I think Andy may say and do next. I think I have a fairly good idea of what would come next if he was either A) in love with you or B) just wanted to be really close friends. It would be like my translations...but of what happens next. There's certain things straight men say when they want to close down the possibility of a deeper relationship, and certain things they say when they want to open it up. My personal belief is that Andy will start to be kind of obvious about it soon, and that some of the things he might say may be confusing to Brian. Then again, I have never met Andy in my life or Brian either for that matter...I'd just be basing that on what's happened to me. However, if I say "Andy will say this" and he says it...it might go a long way to helping Brian figure out which it really is. It's a win/win sutuation for him...he either gets a lover or a brother. It would be nice to know which though.

So Brian, if you would like me to post those, just ask. If I've done enough already and should stand down, just say so and that's cool. I'm confident now that because you told him and everything that your friendship is safe...I feel like the heavy lifting is complete. I haven't written any of that next post yet, so if you say no, nothing goes to waste. If you're already set for advice it just means I won't have an excuse to put off the work I need to do.

You've already entered a whole new chapter in your lives, you've come such a long way in such a short time...no matter what I think it's gonnna work out great for you. No matter what you're super lucky to have someone like Andy in your life. Good luck!
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey whats up all...

Buddy didnt call me back last night ot today so far..in an odd way I expected that....I dont know whether he needs space or hes trying to make me miss him...but I dont know...


I dont think anyone is taking over this thread at all....I love all your responses and personal experiences and advice..CG I would like your translations....

I feel good knowing people relate to this thred...I think its a good thread becasue it shows you a friendship that will never die, under any circumstance and how this kind of situation can turn out for the good. I told my buddy I am gay and a few months later that I am in love with him...While it did help that he pretty much knew both things before I told him..and that I knew that..my story serves as a reminder that things dont always go bad..

Im feeling better today..thank you all for helping me and continuing to be by my side..Brian
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hooray! That you're feeling better :D

This is when you send him an email. Nothin about nothin, just like a joke, or "I saw this and I thought of you"...a nice, safe neutral 'thinking of you'.

He may be busy, his wife may be watching his ass, he may be up in the mountains thinking about you. He may be trying to convince the girl to do or not do something...or he may in fact he needs a little space, who knows. If he needs his space, and email won't threaten it. If he's wanting to see how much you'll miss him and if you'll call (I used to do this all the time) an email will indicate that you really were thinking of him now. So it's safe and you win either way.

If you normally would call him in a certain amount of time, call him. Don't mention the love stuff unless he mentions it first, but do thank him for what a great friend he is and how lucky you are to have a friend like him. If he does mention the love stuff, talk about it freely because it's something he does want to bring up and he may be trying to lead into something. However, don't rush to call...if he needs his space, an email will remind him how much you care without threatening his space.

I'll work out some translations for you but the very first is the easiest: If you don't mention being in love with him again but HE brings it up, that's a pretty good (but not flawless) indication that he's in love with you. If he does not bring it up at all, that's usually (but not always) a sign of avoidance. If he doesn't bring it up, don't you bring it up, except at the end of the convo to thank him for being so understanding. I think that even if he's just a bro it won't freak him to hear it...I just want to see what he does first.

Just remember to be super patient and supportive with him over the next few days...if he's thinking about you at all, the thing that will win him over is that you're awesome beyond awesome, and his girl nags him. You're in the right frame of mind now...if you want to win him, the way to do it is to be irresistably wonderful...the person he got attached to in the first place.

I'll work on those translations...I give you this caveat again, I could be wrong, but you'll be able to tell from what he says whether he loves you like a bro or a lover. Either way you're a big winner, so if he says the stuff that indicates he's just a bro, you have to promise me that you'll still think that's the most awesome thing ever. Actually no you don't, I already know you feel that way.

Check back late 2nite...
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian,

I know it may be hard to believe but your post (#498) sounded upbeat. I went back and read some of your other posts and there is an actual relaxed tone on this one. Hope you feel the way you sound.

Joe.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I am just a little worried..my bro has not called in over 24 hours..I dont wanna call him becasue I wanna give him space...but it is still eating at me...I mean what gives..I know it seems like a shorttime....but usually 24 hour period is long for us..

Im assuming if he ever was pissed or mad at me or this will hurt our relationship, he would have called to tell me so..right?

Even when hes busy he calls me..just concerned over here...peace..brian
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey Brian, not to worry. If what you told him would have hurt your relationship, you would have been able to tell on the phone. I mean, his initial reaction would have been, "what?" or "I was afriad of that" or something like that. Take him at his word, that he already knew and supported you fully.

Does he always call you? Can you call him? Normally I would say that wuld be too soon...but if 24 hours is a long period for you, A) that's really gay if you don't mind my saying so, reinforcing my point that you are in fact a couple, and B) it doesn't sound like you guys need your space very often, it sounds like you just naturally call each other. So I think you can call.

Could be the girl is keeping him locked down (if you call him I'm gonna cry) or it could be that he's testing to see if you'll call him. After all he did work pretty hard to draw this out of you, even while he was going through the abortion he was primarily concerned with youur well being...he may want to know that you're now primarily concerned about his well being.

Call to tell him you realized you had't talked enough about the abortion, that here he was solving your problems, how's he doing from all that? Ask him if he needs his space ("he'll say no"). Remind him that he said that God was fucking with him...ask him if he's OK or whether you need to go punch God out for him (i feel like Cyrano now).

He may...MAY...be dealing with some serious love issues right now if I'm right. He may have a LOT on his mind right now. He may be like you when you wanted to talk to him but couldn't pick up the phone because you couldn't figure out what to say. He may feel like he failed to say everything he meant to say and not know how to say it. Or the girl might have insisted on a night out. Give him a rinf and see what's up...you won't be hurting your friendship in any way to show you care...if he needs his space, if he's upset with you, he'll tell you. If he is upset or needs his space, just continue to be super-suportive of him right now like he was of you...if I am right, he has a lot on his mind right now and I haven't told you how to translate it yet!

Above all, trust Andy, you really can. Fear causes us to say stupid stuff. You can be absolutely sure that at a minimum, he cares for your more today than before. Between true friends, sharing a secret so deep like that causes people to grow closer, not further apart.

In fact, it's possible that he has trust issues...it did take you a long time to trust him. Whether you feel like giving one or not, and whether Andy brings it up or not, I'd apologize for taking so long to tell him. Tell him specifically that you trusted him completely...but you didn't trust yourself to be right. He has to be reassured that you trust him, even if you think it's obvious. Anyway, it can't hurt.

Let us know what's up.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I wouldn't worry too much, Bri. He has a lot to digest. Not just your conversation but also the turmoil at home. He'll call when he's ready to talk.
 
Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian,

If you feel like giving him a call, do it. Ask him what's up. Tell him you're concerned because he hasn't called in awhile. You're a smart guy. You really didn't need any of our help. You just needed to talk to someone about what was going on in your life. Don't let yourself get so down.

Joe.
 
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