Undying love for my best friend...please read(long

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Agreed. Even if he needs the space he'll just say so, and if he does, be really nice about it and give it to him. I rather think he'll be glad that you care.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

So I'm going to have to write this before I know if you've talked or not.

Also, I'm running behind so I may have to break this into two parts.

--------

First off, we have three possibilities.

1. Andy is gay/bi, loves you, and will open up soon

2. Any is straight/curious and loves many things about you but can't imagine actually doing anything with you

3. Andy is straight and honestly just thinks of you like a brother.

I think it's #1. If I didn't I wouldn't be doing this. It's normally a bad situation for friends to hook up. It's difficult, because you already have a tight history that has not included sex. It is fraught with peril. Gay men often fall for their str8 best friends, and sometimes the str8 friends are horny and it works out for awhile and then collapses.

However, I honestly think Andy is in love. I think that if he is not given an outlet for this love, he'll get frustrated, and you won't know why and it will lead to complications. I think you are going to have to deal with the fact that Andy is in love with you, and I say 'deal with' because as I have stated many times before; if true, it's way more traumatic for him than it is for you. He has a girl, who he is engaged to...he likely thought he was going to 'get away with' being straight. Sure they'd talk more than screw, sure he'd be doing the decorating...but now, he has to face a new reality--you are available. He might have felt that, as long as you didn't love him, somehow he could just get through it by being near you but you could never actually be together. Things have just changed.

I said he would be overjoyed to hear it. Deep inside I'm, sure he is...but don't forget that if he is, he'll have some issues and it may be as hard for him to bring it up as it was for you, and he doesn't have me guiding him, he's running blin.


Let me tell another little story about myself.

When I was just out of college, there was this guy I was hot for. Very straight. Always talking about girls. I always thought maybe...there was something there. Like during the olympics when he asked if he was my 'gold medal winner'. Or when I had him over for dinner one night, and he spilled wine on his shirt and didn't bother putting on a new shirt. One night I came out, and he said it was cool. Nothing more. I was so disappointed. Several nights later we were alone, and he actually put his hand on mine. I froze and did nothing. Said nothing. Lost my chance. After that I tried hard to manipulate him into loving me because we had been there once already, but that moment was spontaneous, I couldn't command him to have feelings for me.

Point being, when I came out, he said nothing. Later when he reached out, I did nothing. A) the fact that the other party does nothing means nothing, people freeze, and B) I failed because I refused to believe all the signs I saw that he was attracted to me. I should have grabbed his hand right there, we would have made out and then had hot sex. I just couldn't believe that this straight guy was attracted to me. Not trusting what I knew to be true made me miss my chance. Whereas we were good enough friends that in retrospect, if I had been wrong it would have been no big deal, he just would have said, "no thanks". Some variation on this has happened more times than I can count.

So, the fact that A didn't immediately say he loved you back means nothing. He may be searching for a way to say it right now. He may do something in the next few days that indicates his love for you, and yet still be unable to say it. You must be open and aware. And trusting, that if he does something and you do misinterpret it, he will still be your friend. Don't freeze!

You must also be willing to press Andy a little bit. So far he's been pretty adept at bringing subjects up, but you always change the subject (always until now). Like when he says "If I switched teams, I'd have to be the guy." You got all uncomfortable because you didn't want him to know you liked him and changed the subject. The same thing will happen againn--he's going to bring the subject up, and you will want to change the subject because you're afraid of pushing him away or scaring him off. You must trust that if he brings it up in any way, he is once again hinting just like he was before and you use the opportunity.

Remember, if HE brings the subject up, it means he wants to talk about it. Press him a little. Let go of your fear, and flirt with him a bit. Men LOVE to be flirted with in any case...you can flirt with straight men. They love attention. Even if Andy is totally straight he won't mind if you flirt with him a little...and even then I think it's clear by now if he is mind he'd just tell you and not stay mad about it.

Your new set of brass balls that you used to tell him you loved him...keep those handy. Trust Andy. Even if he doesn't have love feelings for you, you're so tight that even if you press a little far, you'll be able to tell if he's getting uncomfortable and back off and all will be fine.

Believe me, I've been obnoxious with plenty of straight male friends. i can't tell you how many times I've told a dude he was hot or flirted with him, they love it. They flirt back. You will not endanger your friendship to flirt a little bit. But you flirt back when he flirts with you, don't flirt to him first. If he loves you, and can't say it, he'll still be able to express it in actions, and he'll know it's safe to flirt, so if it seems to you that he's getting closer, more intimate, anything like that...know that that's what's happening.

You know him well enough to know when he doesn't like something. Wait to find out he doesn't like it, don't assume that he doesn't.

Don't assume that because he can't speak honestlly about a subject yet that he doesn't feel a certain way.

Again, let HIM bring it up. You'll know if he brings it up that he's comfortable with it. Say that to yourself when he's talking about it. "Well, it's a little freaky, but Andy brought it up, so I'm just going to say something dirty back and see what he says..."

Next: Translations

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Now, to the meat of the issue. You'll be able to tell easily by what he says and does whether it's 1, 2 or 3 (see prev post). Mind you, everything he's said and done so far has indicated to me that he's gay and in love with you. But you didn;t have the translations before, so what he was saying was a mystery to you. Now you'll know! #1 and #2 are almost the same though...if it's somewhere in there I'll have to perform further analysis.

His girl:
#1: If he loves you, he will barely mention her, if at all. When he does, it will be negative. Previously the subject of his girl has put you off...the drive in the mtns, the abortion. Yu should have asked him more about the drive thru the mts, cuz he might have told you how awful it was (we fought the whole way [oh, what about?]...we hardly spoke...we talked mostly about you [oh yeah, what'd she say?]. Be supportive. If he's being negative, keep going. Draw him out as to what's pulling them apart.
#2: He'll discuss her neither positively or negatively, and not much.
#3: If he wants to keep you at a distance, he will talk about his girl in a positive way. He will talk about plans with his girl. What they did today ("she bought me a red rose"). He will talk about things that he did for her to show that he cares about her. Not that he'll try to rub it in, but he'll be emphasizing a future with her.


Question for Andy: When are you finally gonna get married?
#1: "I don't know if I really want to get married"
#2: "When we can...I'm in no hurry"
#3: "I want to but I'm scared of it/too poor/etc" or "I can't wait."


The abortion:
As I said before, you should bring it up but only to say you're sorry your troubles have been occupying your attention, and is everything cool with that. I know you already apologized for it...it's a conversation lead in. Trust me, he'll love you for it.

#1: If he loves you, he won't want to talk about it much at all. Or if he does, it will be one long rant about how awful it was, probably culminating in a comment about how lucky you are to not have to worry about that. His negative comments will be about the stress he had to go thru with the girl and money problems
#2: Same as above, but less
#3: Negative comments about the experience will be about how sad it was to lose the kid, how they'd love to have a child but can't right now.

Question for Andy: Do you want to have kids? Was she on BC?


Moving to Las Vegas:

You have to press a little one this one and ask about living arrangements there...nearby? A mile away? Next door? In the familiy room? You have to jokingly say something like "I wish we could live together and she could come visit us."

#1: If he loves you, he'll say "I wish" or similar. He has to say no of course, but check how quick he says no. If he jokes about saying yes...that means that's what he wants and can't say it.
#2: He'll say, "thanks but can't...I want you nearby though"
#3: He'll say "i love ya dude but you know I just can't go there, I love my girl too much and I'm pussy crazy"


You're the Man:

#1: He'll bring it up and say "You know I'd do you, but we both want to be the man." [you say, "I'm willing to be flexible on that."]
#2: Sam as above
#3: He won't bring it up again.

Him playing around with you:

#1: He'll bring it up and say "You know if we ever did get together..." [whatever he says, you say something encouraging]
#2: Same as above
#3: He won't bring it up again.


God fucks with him, he's in a lot of pain, more than you know:

Definitely bring this up. If he's been thinking about saying something to you, this is a good outlet for him to do it. "Andy, you were in a lot of pain, you said maybe you were even in a worse situaton that me, was that all about the abortion? Are you still in pain?"

#1: "No it wasn't all the abortion" (may not want to talk abuot it yet, which is then your turn to be like "you can tell me, I'm your friend"...all the stuff he did for you. Press...if there was something else causing him pain, find out what it is)
#2: "Mainly the abortion, I just have some crazy stuff I have to deal with...it's better now but thanks"
#3: "Yeah dude, that abortion sucked and I never want to have to go through that again, I hated losing a child."


In general:

#1: Won't talk about a future with the girl, even when asked, or at least downplays it or complains that it may be bad. Interested in future plans with you. Makes jokes about you being a couple, makes (friendly) jokes about gay sex. Brings up the fact that you love him.
#2: Talks about a future with his girl, but downplays the sexual aspect of it. Talks about the gay sex part but not the love part. Talks about attraction, not love.
#2: Talks about a future with the girl, emphasizes relationship (even if it's really nice, like talking about how much fun the three of you have, or how much she is looking forward to seeing you again).

Now you know what to look for. Just remember, once again, trust yourself and him that if he brings it up, don't freeze up, run with it! Especially if he's making jokes about gay life and gay sex, or you two being together...run with it! More on that next.

One thing: Remember that if he is still yet to come out, this could be traumatic for him...not yur questions for him, which are designed to be safe. Traumatic in the same way it was for you. You've made it a lot less traumatic...he knows you're gay, he knows that you love him. He may want very badly to tell you and still, like those times I froze, or my friends knew and said nothing.

Another story: I had another friend in the AF. Knew I was gay. Knew I went to gay bars. Knew I was in love with Sam. Best friends, inseperable comrades. Spent every weekend together. Couldn't be tighter. After I got out and moved to SF, when he got out a few months later he visited me on his way home. I took him to a gay bar cuz of the good music, but it was instantly obvious that he was uncomfortable. The place had never looked so gay to me before! I was like, oh hell, he's such a nice guy to have come here but this was too much for him! So we left after an hour. 3 days later, it's time for him to go home, but we have one last night out. What bar to go to? He says he's OK going to a gay bar. I say no, I'm not doing that to you again. He says it's OK, No, I'm not putting you thru that dude. Finally, at the very end of the night, he finally gets up the courage to tell me that he's always been curious about guys, he had the hots for Sam too, and that he needs to suck dick right now. Surprise!!

So yeah, you can be best buds with a str8 guy, tell him your secrets, and still he won't be able to open up. it happens. In retrospect though, he never said gay sex was bad. He ribbed me for it, we joked about it, but he was never negative about it, because he didn't want to preclude the possibility.

If Andy wants to shut you down and make sure that you don't get the wrong idea, he will very gently and kindly make sure that you know his future is with his girl (his happy future...if he talks about his future with her but is not happy about it, he's looking for you to save him). If he loves you, he'll start making gay jokes. If you don't take the lead and use them as an opportunity to draw him out, he'll get frustrated and you won't know why, and he won't be able to tell you. So if he DOES start making jokes and sly references, it means he is very much trying to give you an opportunity and you should take it.

Yes, he does already seem to want to talk about that stuff a lot doesn't he? Prolly cuz he can talk about it, be it, be comfortable with it, feel like he's got a boyfriend, and still at the end of the day he can be safe in his closet. Which is fine, you need to make him feel safe and secure, and be patient. But the fact that he want to talk abut it so much is a pretty good indication of where he stands.

And yes, back when he was making those gay refs, he knew that you were in love with him. little has changed, except now he knows. You may safely assume if he plays the gay card now, he knows full well and with eyes open what's coming. If he's worried that you'll get the wrong idea, he just won't go there, at least not for the next 2 weeks or so. If he holds way back, he's maybe testing you to see if you'll be cool. If you are and he really is just such a nice guy that he jokes with you, in a few weeks the same old jokes will start up again. I'm looking for his immediate reaction.

Next up: gay sex jokes for straight men!

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Sounds like the sadness and grief left pretty fast, Brian -- kool! Good to hear you're doing well.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

then (try to follow this) the gay should know almost for sure that the guy would know that the gay is gay before the gay actually telling the guy. So basically even before being told, the guy knows about the gay being gay & is nevertheless still bes m8s with him. And the gay knows that the guy already knows about him being gay. So the guy knows whats comin for him! (did u follow?)

Amazingly enough I did! When it was time for me to come out to my friends in the Air Force it was pretty much because they were getting impatient at having to pretend they didn't know Even still I couldn't do it until I read a book about gay soldiers coming out and the guys in the interviews, their friends always knew, which is when I realized that my friends already knew.

I since found out that virtually all of them were at least curious. All of them.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey guys, back with an update.

My buddy called me last night at around 2:30 am my time.

He asked whats up? and I said nothing much...and he said how are you?..I go pretty good...he said he was very very down.

He said he was depressed over his money issues.

He said that he has a job interview today but is depressed and while he knows he has to go to it..he doesnt want to. He is depressed about having to work. He doesnt want to work, he wants to hang around the house.

He also told me his girl and him got into a huge fight, where she punched him in the eye and nose, leaving it bloody. He said he grabbed her by the hair and threw her on the floor(he has anger problems, and its not the first time they both have become physical with each other). She also bit into his arm until it bled.

He said he knew he was was wrong...I told him to wait till it clears out a little then to apologize and make up like you guys do a trillion times..

He said he misses me...and I said I miss him back..

He said he likes hanging out with her but it gets boring and he wished I was there to hang out with..

He asked if I could come out sooner...

I told him I was worried that he was mad at me or pulling away, he said "buddy..I just wasnt able to call you..How can I be mad at you?"

I told im I want to come out there...

He said that he doesnt feel right and feels weird...and I go bro..you got a wife...a soon to be wife...(in which he mumbled back "I dont know about that" ..and I told him hes in Vegas....he should be happy..He said he was happy he was in Vegas but that its not the same without me.

For some reason the topic came to Matt...and I told him things kind of fizzled out with him..and he asks me if its because I want to come out there to Vegas...I said partially..yeah...

He said he found a new way to help him sleep...2 glasses of wine before bed..he was drinking them while I was on the phone with him and an hour later became a little loopy...

I said buddy Ill even send money for you guys to come out here to visit and he goes I dont know about her but I would come back for a weekend..to see you..and some other friends..I told him I knew he was kidding...and he said he will think about it..

Problem with my buddy..and even with me(but I work)..is that we both hate work and want to make money...we both promised ourselves that if we ever came into money we split it...he always tells me if he wins in poker I get half..and if I get money from real estate(which I am) that I would help him out...

He is finding it extremely hard to go back to work..

His wife called him a loser and that he wasnt a go getter and that hes a user for taking my help with money(something she has said to him many times before)..This is what started their fight prior to his call to me..

He was getting loopy and I knew heh ad a big day ahead of him so I told him I missed him and loved him very much and responded the same and we called it a night. I asked if I could call him tomorrow and he said,without a doubt..talk to you all later guys..Brian

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

So, now that you've read my translations, you have your answer.

He loves you, and it's slowly percolating through his mind, now that he knows that his love for you is reciprocated, that he doesn't have to put up with the bitch any more. Hence the fight (with her), hence "I don't know about that" when marriage came up. She bit him? There's a reason they don't get along. He's not staying with her cuz he's happy that way.

He is weighing two things...his desire to be 'normal' and not live the gay life, and his desire to be himself and be with you. And you're winning, BIG time. It's barely even a choice any more. He's made his decision. But it's hard for him to take the plunge.

The fact that he knows about you is making it a lot easier on him. BOTH of you are a lot calmer now, right? All his anger and frustration now goes to her, because she's in the way of what he wants.

It's still really hard for him. Just be very patient. Whenever you're down about gay life, unload that shit on us...don't give him a reason to think that the gay life sucks in any way. Tell him that it was just because you couldn't be honest before, THAT was a problem, but now that he's been such a great guy, being gay is much better. Being out is a relief. There's coupons that come with it...anything to make him think, "yes, I can go there." Several of the guys I have mentioned wanted to be with me but didn't want a "gay lifestyle". Make being honest about it seem like the biggest relief ever, now that you're on the other side of things (now that you're out). In his mind, you want him to think, "Admitting I'm gay/bi/whatever will ease my problems, not make them worse...I wish I could be like my buddy Brian, he's a lot happier now".

But don't speak of looking for anyone else. Tell him specifically that if you found someone like him, that might be one thing. But you're not looking and you don't think there is any such thing. Right now, his friendship is fulfilling everything you need in your life.

Right now he's trying to think of how to tell you. He knows the ball is in his court. He knows it's his turn now. It's almost impossible for him to conceive of, actually admitting it, but the fact that you did it is giving him great strength. He knows that if he says it you'l be happy about it and you'll be together. He's trying to think of how to do it.

This is how Matt "somehow came up." You did the right thing by saying that a lot of it was because you wanted to be in Vegas so bad. What you actually said was, "I didn't want to be with him anymore because I wanted to be with you." He's a smart guy, he knows what you said. And he's happy about it. In fact, that's exactly what he wanted to hear when he brought it up...that you love him more than Matt.

He said that he doesnt feel right and feels weird...and I go bro..you got a wife...a soon to be wife...(in which he mumbled back "I dont know about that" ..and I told him hes in Vegas....he should be happy..He said he was happy he was in Vegas but that its not the same without me.

Which is similar towhat you said. What still feels weird? What topic is still left to be discussed? There's just one. You comfort him my talking about his future, his soon to be wife, and he mumbles "I don't know about that", and then that he's not happy without you. No straight friend talks like this, trust me.

In fact. It's exactly what I said would happen, right?

He is getting very close to being able to tell you. You're handlling it very well, by being patient and supportive. You prolly could have got him to come out right then, by asking "what feels weird?" instead of reminding him of the wife...but that's good. I think you should wait til you're together in person...and we established what he thinks about his wife. That was the biggest item in the translations, and now we know. So you actually handled that great...you just need to learn to trust yourself that you can press in situiations like that, he wants you to. Next time "feeling weird" comes up you might ask him why, or what could be done to fix it (although he already said "come be with me", which is the right answer).

He's not just down about money...he wants to tell you his side, and just has a hard time bringing it up.

If I were you, I would just totally hold back right now with any love stuff, don't press him too much, and go to Vegas. Love should be handled in person (I made you do it over the phone because your friendship was in danger if you didn't get it out...you had already passed into conflict and it was about to get bad).

And by hold back, I mean hold off trying to get him to admit anything, you don't have to hold off on telling him that you love him. He wants to hear that. Not "I need you" love though, but "you're awesome" love. Just keep buttering him up.

I know you already think he's awesome and tell him so. But his life is a pisser right now, what with money and the girl and you being so far away...little things will go a long way. Anything that makes him feel extra-loved and extra-special will make him that much more sure that he needs to break with his past and embrace his future.

It would be nice if you could hear "I'm gay and I want to be in a relationship with you" right now, but then it's still akward when you meet. If you're just like, "I can't wait to be with you in Vegas and I'm gettin' on a plane and coming to visit," when you get off that plane it will be like Jack and Ennis after the 4 years. When you hang out, the attraction will be obvious and palpable, and hopefully one of you has the balls to reach out and take the other's hand. Or when you hug, look into his eyes and the kiss will come naturally. And because you'be been honest and told him your feelings...you can afford to wait unntil you meet. Now that he knows that you're his, he'll be more patient.

In fact, I would bet even money that he's trying to think of a way to do it in Vegas. I'm sure he wants you there anyway, but he's likely also thinking, "If I can get Bri to Vegas, we can go out on another one of those drives" or something. He wants to be able to tell you face to face, which is good. That's better anyway, if you can get to Vegas soon enough.

I absolutely guarantee he's thinking of something sweet and romantic right now. If he makes some sweet suggestion about what you should do...if he has some great idea of what you two should do together, especially if it involves glasses of wine, you should say "Yes, anything you want!!" because he's thinking about how to be with you, and he's making plans. Whenever he thinks about them and the girl interupts him...they're gonna have one hell of a fight. I wouldn't be surprised if she "kicks him out" soon. If she does, he'll go with it in hopes that you'll take him in and you can be together.

So when I say that you could prolly get him to come out on the phone, I think the better bet is to be a super awesome friend and be super loveable and the complete opposite of his girl...exactly what you are doing. The above convo was a great one. Express your love for him and your desire to be with him, don't express any plans that don't involve him, pretend that you've alreday said it and he is your boyfriend because acting like that will make him happy. You could get him to come out now, I'm sure of it...but since he knows if he's patient you will come to him, and you know if you're patient he will come to you...just be patient and talk about how you can't wait to see him and how happy being around him will make you, how it'll be just like old times, you'll finally get to hug him again and thank him for being so awesome...anything and everything to make him think "Holy hell, I can't wait for Bri to get here!!"

If you can't go to Vegas soon then you will need to handle this on the phone and we'll deal with that when it comes up. But I told you what he'd say if he was in love with you, and he said just what I said he'd say...so now you know. It's really hard for him to come to terms with the fact that he loves you so much, he has to come out from way deep in a dark closet, and his girl is standing at the door blocking him...but the fact that you're on the oputside beckoning him is irresistable. Trust that if you are patient and supportive with him, he will come. He loves you bad.

In fact, it may be him that won't be able to wait. I'm sure he wants to tell you now...and because he already knows that you'll love him back, he only has to get over his own fear, not the added fear of rejection. So he may just come clean soon. If he really, really wants to say it and you don't take the hints, he may get fristrated...so just keep that in mind. I'm always here to translate if he gets confusing.

----

I too didn't want to work and just hang around the house, which is why I became a pornographer. How shy is he? Tell him to set up a webcam

Once ahain though Bri, you did great. Your posts are just light years different now. All with smileys and shit!

I'm not even going to wish you luck, just the strength to be patient. Hooray!

Congratulations buddy!

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CG-thanks for the wonderful post..I have an update for you.

Was on the phone today with my bro for like 3 hours...he got the job in the casino and is stressing about it..ultimately he knows he has to take it. He called me for advice "tell me anything Bri.stuff I want to hear..stuff I dont want to hear..." I go well if you want me to tell you something you dont want to hear..I say go take the job..otherwise I said come back home..to NYC..he said he really does think about it sometimes...

The whole conversation we had was about gay topics and me being gay.

He said hes worried about any of the guys I go out with physically or mentally hurting me...
He said he misses me a lot in the conversation...
He said his girl is not home so he can talk about the feeling he has for nto wanting to work..

We made mad jokes about gay stuff..

Hes like "Bri I want you to act like that guy from the birdcage.."
He played a part of the movie for me..trying to get me to laugh..

I joked that I was the reason Nick and Jessica Simpson broke up..and hes like What? you like Nick Lachey? I go yeah I think hes hot..lol...He said it was weird for him to hear that.

We went into what type of rare relationship we had..and how any other person would probably not talk to me after I told him I was in love with him and that any other person wouldnt have talked to him after he told me that he used to use me in the beginning of our friendship..

I expressed to him that Im finding it hard meeting a good guy...and that I dont like the bar scene or the online thing...

Hes like come out here and I will find you soem guys..My friend Anthony has a gay friend...

Various times during the conversation he asserted his heterosexual status..While he was watching TV he said "Damn look at that ass...Eva Longoria is hot..."

He said he should pimp ladies and men to make money..but that he wouldnt let the men come near him..

He also said that me telling him I was in love with him weired him out a little buts hes cool with it..

He told me about a time he was with a girl..which drove me nuts hearing..

Him and his girl are back on good terms...he was arranging the living room differently while I was talking to him, sayingthat shell like it when she comes home..


CG-I have to be honest with you..I love Andy..I think a big part of m will always love Andy in that way..Im afraid right now..afraid to know that it is going to be hard to find someone as it is..let alone someone as good as Andy...

I told him its goingto be wierd when I get a BF and we hang out with you and your girl....hes liek why? I go I dunno I have never been in a relationship since I known you..and he goes its goingto be fine..we both wanted a little sister...heh..

We joked around for a while then he had cleaning to do so I let him go.

We both said we missed each other, and that was it...he made me promise to call later..

CG-Some part of me knos that we will never end up together I think..I mean sometimes it does settle in that he is straight..I love him with such great love...I only hope to find that with someone else...my heart is broken a little..talk to you soon..BRI

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

You know what, you need to go out to LV and meet me for dinner as an old friend or acquaintence so I can read him in person, then I can tell you for sure. If I could see his body language, I could give you an exact reading!

I'm half-joking (about meeting me--not about my GAYDAR, which is the sharpest I've ever seen), but I will say this:

You have a more than ideal situation. Actually hooking up is not what it's cracked up to be. You have all the benefits of a love relationship, without any of the shit that usually fucks stuff like that up. Brotherly love can be way stronger than romantic love. It's not like you have to settle. You and he have the most amazing relationship. I have to be honest and say that I really think that being brothers is better, much better in the long run. Your relationship is already stronger and more filled with love than most married couples.

I was more worried about him actually. I was afraid that if he loved you romantically (he does love you as a brother, which is awesome) and you weren't open to the possibility, not only might you miss a great opportunity, but it would stress him out and you wouldn't know why, and that might cause probs down the road.

It sounds...to me...like this stuff has been going through his brain (he's thought very seriously about leaving the girl and coming to NY...lots of gay topics...he's really curious about being gay...he is gay, from the descrip in your first post it's just obvious)...but he's not ready to deal with it yet. That's cool. I'm thinking actually that out of #1,2 or 3, maybe he's #2. LOL That sounds bad, but you know what I mean

So...it's up to him. You've done exactly the right things. You wallowed in the gay stuff, making him more confortable with it, but not making him do anything about it. If he's trying to stake out some space so you don't get the 'wrong' idea, he's doing it the nice way. Your relationship is completely safe. You can be as gay as you want, he knows how you feel, there are no secrets, you can talk freely about how much you care for each other, he gets to explore gayness is safety and you get to express your love. His heart is yours, even if his dick isn't. You can cut a dick off but you can't cut a heart out. Not only do you have a bird in hand, you have a rare exotic bird more beautiful than most people ever see.

So don't worry about the birds in the bush, enjoy all that you've got, it's A LOT. You're right, both of you have completely proven your friendship now. Not a lot of people would stay such good friends. As I said in the beginning...the worst case scenario is you become better friends, and you are. From conflict to deep friendship in what, like a week? When did I find this thread?

I can't tell if the part about being with the girl is to hint to you that he's straight, or to convince himself. I still say he's gay, or very bi...but he's saying "I like the fact that you're gay but I can't go there yet." That's fine. It's a good friend who will help him work out how he feels without manipulating him into feeling how you want him to feel. You did very well by biting your toungue when he was telling you about the girl. Heck, he may be trying to convince himself, not you, I dunno. But being cool about it even though it hurt inside is the way to make him feel comfortable and grow whatever it is you two have. Well done!

I told you he was weighing two options...perhaps he drifted a little too far towards loving you (in his mind) and got scared about the scary closet door. His girl started being nice...prolly realizing that she didn't have that much wiggle room...Joe's wife did the same thing, she was a whorebitch until she realized that he would just leave her for me, then he got hot makeup sex. Didn't last long though

He's def sending some mixed signals. That's OK. He is dealing with these issues and you just have to be an awesome bro and be a great guy. You're in no danger of losing the friendship, you're in no danger of screwing anything up...your heart is only broken a litttle now. If he has issues and he's telling you to give his heteroness a little space...then do just that. Which is to say keep being exactly who you are. The convo above is just right. You were comfortable with the gayness, clear on the fact that you think he's the greatest, and you didn't push. Perfect.

Bask in the amazing friendship you have, enjoy every minute of it, you have the greatest friend you could want. It's that deep friendship that will help him come out.

If I could have Sam or Joe back, and have that kind of relationship but never got to touch them, I'd do almost anything to have that. It makes me happy just hearing about it. you're a lucky guy and you know it.

If he wants something, when he's ready to come out, he'll let you know. In the meantime, wallow in the love that you DO have.

You always call him your "brother" anyway. It's easy for us to have intense feelings for our brothers. Bask in the love that you already have as brothers, you're a lucky man to have someone that cares about you that much.

If I'm totally wrong and he's just straight...then you are already richer than Bill gates. If I'm right and he does have feelings for you...maybe he needs to think that through on his own time. Let him, be a great friend, and you never know. But even if you just stay exactly the way you are you can make anyone in the world jealous with a friend like that. What a great guy. try not to be disappointed...you won the $50 mil lottery instead of the $60 mil Powerball...but the difference is so slim and you still have enough money/love to get anything you want!

So, relax...enjoy your friendhip...DO talk about gay stuff but DON'T talk about being in love with him, only about what a great guy he is and how much you miss him. If it's important to him, he will make it important to you. He'll drop more and more hints until it's obvious. If it's not that important to him, you'll just be comfortable with each other and you can talk freely and without secrets. Either way you're a big winner. And talking about gay stuff will just make him more and more comfortable with it. If he's straight, then you're just lucky to have a friend that likes to talk about it so much. I have gay friends and we don't talk about gay shit that much. I have straight friends and we NEVER talk about gay stuff.

The important thing is, that of he does have deeper feelings for you, he knows it's safe to tell you. That's huge. If he does have feelings for you he'll be able to tell you, it's not like you have to worry about that. It may take him some time to work out what he wants, and he may be too invested in being 'straight' to ever commit to a gay relationship. At least you don;t have to worry that if he did feel that way, that he wouldn't know you felt that way back. It's his decision now.

I don't know if you'd feel comfortable sending a pic of him to me. If not, that's totally cool and I'll understand. But if you do, I promise that no one else will ever see it, and I can generally tell from even just a single photo whether someone's gay, bi or straight, and what percentage. My GAYDAR is never wrong, and I'd be happy to take a look and give you a 'personal reading'. Email me from my profile if you want my real email address. Again, if you're not comfortable doing that I'll understand completely...just trying to be helpful.

As a side note, I would love to see a pic of you two together. Your love for eachother is so special and remarkable...I'd love to see who I helped out. Only if you're comfortable wit that though.

I still say he's gay though, based on your earlier posts. Don't take anything he says right now to far to heart. He may be telling you never to think of any such thing (and very nicely, like a true friend he is), or he may be trying to work out for himself how he feels. Give him some time, he has some stuff to think about. You keep being a good friend and it will help him make the right decision, whichever way it goes, and that will make you both happy. Don't even decide yet whether he is or isn't. Juust keep doing what you're doing, and report back if he says anything confusing.

At least, if he's confused about himself, he's not confused about you. So we only have to figure out what he's thinking, not what we we think he thinks you're thinking! Much easier.

jc

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

my AOL screename is TenTwentyTwo76......mail or IM me anytime.Ill send the pic...email me so I know where to send...thanks Bri


If anuyone wants to email me there Im cool with that, just put suttin bout JUB in the title so I know not to delete it....Bri

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I just did, you should have it by now...if I emailed it to the right place!

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, do you get a spring break or anything?

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Thanks lil_c, I'll give you a w00t w00t! You've passed him now...won't be long before you get to change the little text under your name to whatever you want...now that I've reached 1000 and can do that who cares about anything else...and airfare??!! Are you nuts? We're coming to Sydney!

I'm just glad it all worked out...their conersations are so awesome, wish I had someone like that, friend bro or anything else.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

CG-I have to be honest with you..I love Andy..I think a big part of m will always love Andy in that way..Im afraid right now..afraid to know that it is going to be hard to find someone as it is..let alone someone as good as Andy...

That's love...and life. Give Andy a few weeks before you give up on him, he may surprise you yet. You never know what comes next.

Besides...you don't have to find someone as good as Andy. Even if you go elsewhere for the nookie...could you really stand TWO people as awesome as him in your life at the same time? A) the would both be ragingly jealous of each other and B) you don't have that much time.

Perhaps you should just have a platonic relationship, and have sex with random people on the side. When you're back in the same city you'll be spending all of your time together anyway. I don't think you'll have time for anyone else. He'll be single soon it sounds like, and so will you...you know what, I still think you end up together. He's about to break up with his girl because he loves you more than her...he may be having a hard time dealing with it, but I just can't see him going out and getting another girl...even if he is 'straight', what's she going to think when he 'sometimes seem kinda gay' and spends all day talking to his gay 'best friend'?

Sometimes I worry about counseling you to have patience...am I giving you false hope? But honestly, your desires aside, I just can't see him ending up with anyone else, and I doubt he can either. I maintain that he will figure it out, although it certainly may cause him some turmoil. He has a lot to think about right now, a LOT. And he's doing pretty good, considering.

So, I don't think that I'm helping you seduce a str8 boy, although I could always be wrong. It would be the first time though...about someone else, anyway.

If he does want to be with you and can't deal with it, his hinting will become increasingly insistent. Watch for that. Questions about what gay sex is like, question abouut what you like, and the kicker if he hasn't asked it already, "when/how did you know you were gay?" I find that the instant a guy asks that question, they're on my shortlist. Because of course they're wondering how it applies to them.

Think about this though: if Andy is gay, he's not thinking about anyone else but you, there's not a living other soul he'd want to be with. And if he's straight, you have a straight guy that loves you so much it has at least crossed his mind...prolly a lot, that if he was ever going to go gay it would be you. You must be pretty cool yourself. Maybe that's why I'm helping you

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Just a nice update..

Buddy called at 2:30am and we stayed on the phone till 6am..in this phone call, as soon as I answered he was saying how much he misses me and how much he wants me out there..like NONSTOP.

I thought it was odd because after I told him I was into him....even though I knew he wouldnt break our friendship over it..I thought he would at least cut down on all the mushy talk..it has not stopped and In fact I think its getting more so..

He said he has everything and everybody out there in Vegas except for the one person he wants the most.

He said its boring there without me...

He called earlier and I was with Matt ...and...I was too busy to pick up the phone ...I told him I was with Matt when he called earlier..and he said F Matt...juts pick up and come here...he said "fuck everyone and just come here"...

Its really hard to resist his offer..I told him my heart wants me to be on the next plane to come see him and be near him..he said then do it..

But guys I cant stay there right now, I need to finish my masters...

He said when I am done with that in August, that he wants me out there....I am thinking about it...my only concern is money and a car..I have none..so its a hard decision.

He said he has no one to do 7-11 runs with anymore(we both did that together always, NYC and Vegas)..he said he misses going into the mountains with me and just chilling.

It was 6am and I had to get ready for work..he told me "dont go kep talking...take off so we can keep talking" I said buddy I really have to go...

I go bro your just down tonight because you are about to start work and you dont want to...or maybe you are just nervous...he said back very quickly..its you..Im down because you are not here....I will always have a weird little place for you in my heart and Im down because you are not here...

We both hung up and promised to call each other today...bri

 

[NameTaken]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

You truly are lucky ot have such a great friend. And it sounds to me like he's warming up to the idea of telling you something (I bet in a few weeks he might let something slip ).

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Oh man, that is a nice update. I can feel his love for you like a heat lamp on my heart.

That mental battle he's having between the two options...you're winning again.

He loves you so much he knows what he wants but is having a hard time saying it. Get on a plane and go there for a weekend, a week...anything...love is welling up in him like a volcano. I'm not sure if he's even going to be able to contain it.

You gave him the space he needed to think about it, you gave him the room for his feelings to grow, and they have. He feels free to love you now, and it's an avalanche that's builing up in his heart.

Even if he can't say it, he wants to express it. So if you can just get past him actually saying the words "I'm in love with you just like you are with me" and bask in the actions that say so much more than the words, you're already a couple. He's committed to you, he loves you, he wants to be with you...his heart is utterly and completely yours. He misses a lot more than just going to 7-11 and chilling...that's just his way of reliving wonderful memories (which is, again, exactly what I said he'd do).

You're doing the right thing. He's getting very close to saying it. Don't say anything about it juuuust yet, he's likely still a little skittish and he's still processing it. But I'd say his decision is made already. He may still have some back-and-forth thoughs as the two sides argue out in his brain...but your side has everything going for it, and the girl side only has the fear of change. You don't have to worry for 1 second about winning his heart, it's yours on a diamond encrusted platinum platter. You own that man completely. All you have to do now is wait for the delivery.

In fact, the hell with that...you've received the delivery already, you're just waiting for the confirmation. Who cares if he can actually say the words yet? Words are just words. His actions tell all.

You thought he'd back off but instead he's getting closer...just like I said

Based on past experience, he'll want to wait to tell you in person, but he may not be able to wait. We'll see. I wish I could be there when you get off that plane...your love for each other is going to explode like an atomic bomb. If he hasn't told you by the time you get there, he won't be able to resist once you're there.

You're one lucky dude.

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

best mates = uber woot wootnessness

Couldn't have said thta better myself.

I keep second-guessing myself...am I giving Briand some false hope?

and then there's this

I thought he would at least cut down on all the mushy talk..it has not stopped and In fact I think its getting more so..

and this...

I will always have a weird little place for you in my heart and Im down because you are not here...

He's as good as said it right there. He alread said, in a post that I translated, that he had some 'gay tendencies'. Like he's gonna have any gay tendencies that he's not feeling for you.

I think maybe you could have asked him what kind of weird little place he has for you. It's OK you didn't...but that sounds like the first of several hints to come. If I'm right, he'll start stepping it up even more. If he starts hinting even more like that it may mean that he's trying to set up a situation where it will come up in conversation. It's up to you whether you want to press him on it, as you two are so close now I don't think there's any chance that he'll let it go at this point, so it's not like you have to pull it out of him. He'll just keep hinting more and more strongly until you finally get it.

You think, oh, he's just saying that he'll always think of me in a special way. Sure...but str8 men just don't ever have conversations like the one above, they just don't. Trust me they do not, no matter how good of friends they are, they don't ever do that, and I have had some very close metrosexual friendly friends.

The only straight friends I ever had that were like that...eventually came out and starting living together openly. Finally.

And if he has a single gay bone in his whole body...how is it not going to be going haywire for you? I mean, logic just dictates that if Andy has any gay tendencies at all, he must feel them intensely towards you, how could he not? It's not a matter of whether he feels it or not, it's a matter of whether he can resist it or not. And I just have a feeling that you're going to be pretty irresistable.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Just wanted to let you in on a song Im listening to now....sort of fits me I think...oldie but goodie...


Head Over Feet


I had no choice but to hear you
You stated your case time and again
I thought about it

You treat me like I’m a princess
I’m not used to liking that
You ask how my day was

(chorus)
You’ve already won me over in spite of me
Don’t be alarmed if I fall head over feet
Don’t be surprised if I love you for all that you are
I couldn’t help it
It’s all your fault

Your love is thick and it swallowed me whole
You’re so much braver than I gave you credit for
That’s not lip service

(repeat chorus)

You are the bearer of unconditional things
You held your breath and the door for me
Thanks for your patience

You’re the best listener that I’ve ever met
You’re my best friend
Best friend with benefits
What took me so long

I’ve never felt this healthy before
I’ve never wanted something rational
I am aware now
I am aware now

(repeat chorus)

 

[CGHJ]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Lots more has happened since the first three posts He's bi, and he's interested all right. this story is going to have a very happy ending.

Nice tune Brian! I think that about sums it up! You know how he likes to play you songs...I think you could probably get away with playing this one for him, in fact I know you could and he'd love you for it. It's a great way of expressing your love for him without it being weird...and he's played you stuff that mushy.

Or, send the boy a mix tape. Friend songs, not love songs, but stuff like the one above is just right.