Undying love for my best friend...please read(long

[Alberto_15]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Had a few calls from Andy today....I told him that I felt so sad because I led myself to believe things that had no possibility of happening...and he goes.."You mean about me coming back to NYC?..."

And I went, "partly.."

And he goes, "that we would live near each other?"

I go, "I guess.."

And he goes, "Why do I get the feeling you are not telling me everything....why do I get the feeling there is something else that you led yourself to believe??"

And I just shrugged it off...But he knew. I know he knew what I was thinking.

That I led myself to believe that me and him could ever be.

What a dumb ass I have been...I mean you would think that I should just re-read my own damn thread to learn the lesson once and for all instead of going through this.

This is the greatest pain I have ever known.

He seems so perfect for me. We are soul mates. But not in THAT way.

I wish this pain on no one, not even my worst enemy. VEGAS

Hello there

I think your "friend" is a complete jerk

"Why do I get the feeling you are not telling me everything....why do I get the feeling there is something else that you led yourself to believe??" I mean, WTF!!! It is pretty obvious to everyone (even his girlfriend it seems) that your friendship is not "normal". Friends do not interact the way you guys do, wtf does he mean he gets the impression that "you led yourself to believe"? What a fucking asshole. Ofcourse responsibility is always shared because you've allowed him to be the center of your universe for so long but I just infuriates me to read that he does not own any part of it. He talks to you and depends on you like you were his boyfriend, husband, soulmate, etc ETC.

Lets just pretend that he only loves you as a friend . Even just out of friendship he would let you move on but of course his needs come first. How can someone be so selfish? Does he realize what he is doing to you? He *pretends* not to know so you should tell him flat out! Spell it out for him!

You can't stay in this place, you can't waste anymore of your time, you've given him too much of yourself already and have gotten very little in return (or so it seems). You have to love yourself more than you love him, you have to put yourself first... I believe you need to tell him everything straight up. Sadly, I don't believe he's going to tell you that he loves you back, he may never admit to that but at least you will be able to move on with your life without having regretts for not clarifying any "inaccurate" perceptions there might be (according to him )

You are not a dumb ass!!!!!! You didn't come up with these hopes based on nothing! He more than led you on... you talk him to sleep for fuck's sakes!!!!! Your mistake was to allow this to go on for so long, that is true, but don't you dare to think for even one second that you built these hopes on nothing and YOU BETTER not let him tell you that either.

I'm sorry for the language and for the rant but your last post got me so pissed at him!!!

I am so sorry that you got your heart broken buddy

You clearly have a lot to offer and this is not the end of the world. Most of us know from experience that it will take time for your heart to heal, but it will, even if that seems so distant right now. You deserve to find a guy who loves you in the way you deserve to be loved and I hope you will be with that person in the very near future.

We all support you and we all wish you well. Lots of and to you

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Alberto, thanks for your post. It prety much epitomizes everything that I really feel currently.

I have quite a bit of anger in me about this situation.

Let's put it this way. Im still in love with my friend. But dont get me wrong. It doesnt interfere with my day...or my job...or stop me from functioning. I really only deal with this when I come hom at night and talk to Andy.

And let me also say this. I dont know whats going on with him. If hes interested in anything or maybe hes coming to terms with things. But lets say hes straight. He knows Im in love with him and he knows Im gay. So why say all this sweet stuff to me. I mean I know hes being friendly and all...but there are lots of other things he can say friend-wise, than the stuff he chooses to say.

He called me around 4am my time. And what does he say? The usual stuff. Miss ya. Cant live without ya. He feels so lost and alone and he cant take it and needs something to change.

I told him that, "I know what your problem is...its not that you cant work, or you cant find work or even that you have sleeping problems...your problem is that you are really afraid to settle there without me...you cant move on without me there...I mean dont get me wrong...friends can miss friends dearly...but you are telling me, quite honetly now, that you simply cannot function out there without me...isnt that odd Andy?"

"You know Bri," he continued.."telling me that you had a crush on me at one time is odd too but I didnt let that ruin anything..,"..."us being friends despite what happened in the beginning of our friendship(he used me)...is odd...everything about our friendship i odd...and I love it because of that..."


We went on for a little more...was back and forth for a bit, then I had to go to work. He said he hung out with his bouncer friend...the one from the Green Door(swingers club)..and I asked him if he wound up going to that "dumb place"...he said no. The he said, "why would you call it dumb, you know you'd go there...and I would go there if my girl was into it but shes not...."

Anyway he just started to piss me off and I hung up with him and say goodbye .

VEGAS

P.S.-We also talked about how he would love to see another guy screw his girl and he screws another girl..he said hes be into that...whatever. ..ttyl...Bri

 

[pinolian79]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

WoW! I cant believe that I have just spent the last 3 hours reading all of your posts. I feel like im reading my life story. I really think that your friend is completly head over heals in love with you, but he cant admit it to you or himself. What ever you do dont leat that friendship get lost. Dont give up on him. It may take some time, but he will come around....................

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian, right now it sounds to me like you should say something along these lines:

"Andy, last time we talked I meant you sound totally dependent on me to be able to function. If I want a dependent, I could adopt a kid -- you're not a kid, buddy, so stop being dependent!"

He begins to sound like a broken record...

Then you could add, "Either that or it sounds like you're in love with me, and just haven't faced it. Whatever -- you figure it out."

Good luck, dude!

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Update time for those still hanging in there.

Yesterday I came home and Andy and I talked. We both didnt bring up any of the usual shit. We talked about normal life. I told him Im thinking of getting a car...and hes like cool. But he wasnt cool with it, he was pissed at it. He said he had to get a car and put it in his name..I asked him why.

He goes, "well the car we have is in my girls name..."

And I go.."ok?"

"Well if we ever got separated..I would be screwed, Id have no car.."

"Why are you thinking like that..in that way?"

"Well no, Im not thinking about it, but you never know...thats reality.."

Then a little comment would be made sarcastically here and there on both our parts...and then it quickly blew up...we got angry with each other , yelled....I told him something to the affect like a "be a man"...and thats when he blew up and said "you are talking to me about being a man...you do so many things that are so not like a man it isnt funny.."

He kept harping on it. His words hurt me like never before. I knew by the tone in his voice he was talking about me being gay..I said, "so Im gay so that makes me less of a man right?"...and I just started bawling and bawling like I never did before. I hung up the phone and for the first time ever...I knew hate for Andy. For the first time ever I didnt care if he ever called back.

I cried so hard it hurt. He called me back a few minutes later to say that he didnt mean that I was less of a man because Im gay. He said, "look whats going on here...our friendship is changing and I dont want it to..."

I told him to go fuck himself...I said "fuck you"...and he goes "fuck me? fuck ME?" (I really wanted to say "sure" , but that wasnt what he was implying) He said I never used a curse at him before and started laughing , which made me more pissed of course . He said, "Im sorry I didnt mean to hurt you.."

Meanwhile this is typical Andrew...saying something hurtful...then apologizing for it and not really realizing just what hes saying sorry for.

Things get a little more calm...we speak again a few times and overnight into the morning.

He called me today...we were shooting the breeze. He goes, "you seem in a better mood today.." I said I was.

He goes,"let me go then I dont want to bring down your mood.." (Which meant of course he wanted to talk about the usual shit).

We talk...he tells me that he just fought with his girl because he wanted to see a movie tonight..and she said they didnt have enough money.

Now I know him like a book. I know when hes fibbing. He told me yesterday he uses 60 bucks to fill his truck up...but they dont have 15-20 bucks for a movie. I call BULLSHIT. But I let it slide..being the real reason hes sobbing to me is because he wants me to feel bad. I straight out called him on it. I go, "how much you want to bet that not only do you BOTH see the movie tonight, but you also go out to eat.." Hes like, "no, no we really have no money.."

Low and behold she calls while Im on the phone with him and he goes well I am going out to see the movie after all, but apparently she said "just movie, no dinner"...whatever.

We got onto the subject of what Im doing tonight and I told him Im hanging out with Matt(which I did). He goes, when did this happen? When did you start calling him?"

I told him, "he called me.."

And hes like, "and what are you going to do tonight fuck him hard in the ass?"

I stayed silent.

I implied that we are going to hang out, watch a movie and just chill.

Hes like, "bro come on I know your going to face fuck him.."

I was like, "Andy, I dont know why your mentioning all that, but chill..its kind of weird.."

Then he added in, "so your just going to let him use you for sex?"

I add, "I guess we are using each other for sex...whats wrong with that? its not like its anything serious with him anymore..."

Then he chimed in and said , "right...and in three weeks you will probably be telling me that your in love with him.."

I changed the subject to the topic of Seaview. Now Seaview is an abandoned mental hospital here in NYC, in the bourough of Staten Island. Andy and I, and some of his friends, used to go there around this time of year to spook ourselves out. Its totally scary and awesome. So its cold here in NYC today and windy and dark. "The perfect day to go..", I tell Andy. Hes like why dont you ask Matt to go. I go I just might.

Then he goes, "Why dont you call him now on three way and I will listen in on you asking him to go.."

I go no thats ok. He adds, "Ill shut off the TV like im not here..I wont say a word.."

I said no again. He goes, "You cant even do that to make me laugh can you.."

I go why would that make you laugh? "Because his reaction will be funny."

Him listening to us talk on 3-way is something Andy always tried to get me to do. And today he kept insisting on it..he didnt give up until I yelled at him to stop.

Then he yelled at me, saying, "Well remember I still have his number...I could call him anytime I want, but I wouldnt out of respect for you..." (Andy had gotten Matts number by going in my cellp hone and writing it down when I wasnt looking).

I go, "call him...why would I care??"

And then he dropped it.

I told him I have Jackass 2 on bootleg(such a funny movie) and we are going to watch the first part of the Yankees game...

He adbruptly said, "I have to go bri, goobye.."

I go, "wait..why?"

"Im so sad and not in a good mood."

So thats how we ended it today.

This week I fell hard for him and he knew it...He knew I was falling for him again and I almost said it.

I think that one day the pressure will be too hard and I will open up to him more about my love for him...which might be the thing to get me over him.

P.S.-Dont know if I already mentioned it..but Ill say it here anyway...Andy and his girl fought over money last week or two weeks aog. And she said, "I should just marry Brian, hes the one really supporting me here..."

Andy told me this and told me that comment made him cry.

Then I said, "well dont worry Andy Im a homo shes not into me..", just to sort of calm him down and he shot back, "well dont worry shes not into big guys.." He said the last comment kind of harsh and defensive like I actually DID have a chance at scoring with his girl...but whatever....


P.S. II-Yeah I know my friendship with him is fucked up royally and this is all a fine mess. Maybe all this will work itself out soon.

 

[Eagle653]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Wow, Brian, a lot going on. Why do I have a feeling this is coming to a head? I wish you well; just wanted you to know that I'm thinking about you and following your story by the post. Hang in there--you two will sort this out. Take care of yourself.

Something in your post before this one struck me--the gut-wrenching pain of being in love, especially in love with someone who's not loving you back (at least the same way). There's absolutely no pain like that. I've been there, as have many here. We feel for you and hope you get peace.

 

[Eagle653]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

P.S. This thread is now over 1,000 posts and the largest in this forum and one of the largest on JUB. Thanks for sharing this with us. Many of us are learning about ourselves by sharing in your life and story.

Keep us up to date. Hundreds are following this--and care.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hey Average, thanks! You have been supporting me since the beginning of all this and I deeply appreciate it.

My older brother is away in Cananda with his partner(older brother is also gay for those that dont know).

Matt came over and spent most of the afternoon and early evening with me. I had the keys to my brothers place and we went up there to watch the beginning of the Yankee game. During the 4th inning, I went down on him and just worhsipped his cock , and before I had known it an hour had passed of me sucking on it and just take 30 second breaks and going right back to it(I love, love cock...)

Andy called a little bit after this..he kind of knew something was up by my tone...asked me where I was..and I told him and with who...and he goes, "I dont want to hear his name..Ill call you later.."


Matt goes home. I watch the Met game(go Mets!) and just relax and head to bed.

Andy calls me and said, "You know Brian Im just so lost and confused...you are the first person to break my heart and leave me broken-hearted...I cant function without you here..You are the first thing I think of when I wake up and all I think about at night."

I asked him if hes willing to stay there and deal with the pain of not having me there or come here and have the chance to be near me again but be in a place he doesnt like too much.

He said, "I want to come home because of you..I need you in my life for happiness...Im so lost and confused...I dont know what to do.."

We talked for 2 more hours saying the usual stuff.

I told him of my plans for rennovating my apartment and making it nice and finally being able to take guys over her and bang them...Hes like, "bro..you are making me mad and sad..all this talk of rennovating..I guess you are pretty much telling me your staying there and I need to come home to you.."

I told him im the one who cares for him the most and he agreed. He said his friend Dean told him, "Andy you look sad..is it about your friend Brian?? Did he tell you if he is ever coming here yet?" He said even his friends out there see his sadness and so does his girl. He said everyone he knows and everyone I know must be happy becasue they finally got what they wanted: Me and Andy apart.

I changed the topic to The Texas Chansaw" The Beginning (we are huge horror fans). He said he went with his girl and her friend and her friends brother. He said the his friend walked out of the theater in disgust and Andy told me he thought the kid was beign a faggot. He constantly kept saying the work faggot for me.

Now dont get me wrong: faggot, fag, fairy, homo, queer...none of these words offend me at all, no matter who says them. But for some reason when I hear them out of Andys mouth I get upset. I told him that and he kept saying it over and over to me jokingly...and he finally goes..."your a faggot" in a joking matter.


And I shot back and said, "well do I really have to tell you what you are?" Now I totally meant this as saying that I can call him unemployed, a hoodlem, a user, etc.

But he shoots back saying, "well Im heterosexual....not a faggot.."

I thought his choice of defense was interesting and told him so..I even said it sounds like hes insecure about something.

Anyway another 2 hours later and sunlight was up by me...and we hung up.

He called back 30 minutes later with anxiety.

"Bri..stay on the phone with me.."

"Do you want me to talk you to sleep Andy?"

"Sure Bri.."

I talk him to sleep...hear no response from him and whisper "goodnight buddy, get some good sleep..you deserve it."

I hang up and he calls me back 5 minutes later asking, "where did you go?"

I asked him what he wanted me to do, "talk you to sleep or just chill on the phon until you sleep..."

He said he didnt care.

I asked him if he was laying down with his head on the pillow and he said yeah.

I talked to him about some reandom things. I told him not to respond and Ill just talk...and after a while I ran out of topics....I satrted to get sleepy but I stayed on the phone with him too...he was soon snoring...I told him goodbye...and let him go.


TTYL Vegas

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

A few days ago, on October 5th, marked 4 years that I have known Andy...called him up to tell him and he said he already knew. We have been through many ups and downs and probably been through more than lots of people in that short time. He agreed.

Anyway..just thought Id add that...ttyl..Vegas

 

[DevinO]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I must say, it's obvious he wants you. Unfortunatly, it seems like he's the kind of guy who can never admit he's gay. I guess your best course of action is to continue moving on with your life. If he does decide to admit his feelings one day and you are available and willing, great! If not, at least you have moved on and made a life for yourself.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I guess you are right Devino...and to all the others who have shared a similar view.


Lately, it seems like my life has become one bad, rerund of Melrose Place.

Andy called me last night. Ill shorten the the 4 hour talk to this.

As soon as I picked up. No hello. No, "hey whats up?".

It was, "I cant take it anymore..my body cant take it anymore. I need you to tell me you are coming out here...or you need to tell me you cant come out there...so I can start making plans to come over there by you..."

"Im so broken hearted...no friend has ever been like you...I would give my blood and life for you...we are really blood brothers...I can only say that for two people in my life...my girl and you."

"I need happiness and I cant have that unless you are near me..."

He went on and on. The sweetness poured.

I asked him, "what would everyone think if you just came home for me? What would your girl think? She wouldnt be too happy..."

"Fuck what everyone thinks! If I went to wake my girl up now..shed laugh at me and tell me to get a job....she thinks thats the answer to all of this....the answer to all of this is to be near you..."

We talk for more hours.

I start to fall for him all over again.

I realize what Ii was doing was wrong..but I couldnt control my heart. If I could, this thread wouldnt exist, now would it?

I told him I was "feeling bad" and let him go.


Went to see a movie today with Matt and came home.

As soon as I walk in Andy called and asked me how the movie was and who I went with.

We talked and talked for like a half an hour. He said he felt bad. I told him I was upset too.

And I was. I was sad. Angry. Heartbroken. Worn out mentally.

I told him what I was upset about "wasnt good and isnt something he would want to hear".

He goes, "Is it that you are staying in NYC?"

I go, "bro, you couldnt be further off.."

He goes. "Is it something Im not going to want to hear?"

I go, "Probably."

He kept asking what it was..and he said, "I thought we would and have talked about anything, why cant you talk...it seems to me you must be really scared right now.."

I changed the topic to the movie and said," what was your favorite part?"

And he goes, "jordanna brewster, she was so hot in it..."

After a few more minutes, I adbruptly said I had to go..

He called back but then he had to go...and I have not spoken to him since.

When he made the comment about the girl it was obvious that Im talking to a straight guy. I dont know why my heart and mind are so blind to it sometimes.

People have said that hes teasing me and leading me on or just trying to come to terms with me and his love for me.

But then I ask myself, "Is that really the case..or is he just being what friends are to each other: nice, sweet, caring, etc..?"

I know it has been wrong to have these feelings for my friend. And yes sometimes this crush has brought out the immaturity and game playing person in me.

But today I sort of give up...sometimes I think its better for him to be there and for me to be here..maybe that will satiate my love for him?

I dont know...Im so lost, sad and confused...I feel like Im all that way back at page one of this thread all over again.

People have commented this has gone on long enough and is unhealthy. I really do agree. I dont know how, short of not talking to him(and Im not sure if that would make it worse or not) what to do.

TTYL VEGAS

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

I had to come back and talk to you guys here.

Im so so very fucking lost.

I talked to someone I know who knows about this situation and she had this to say to me:

A)Andy is playing me...he knows exactly what to say...and the right time to say it.

B)You need to straight out tell him..."Dude..by the way you talk it sounds like you are in love with me...and its cool if you are..but I need to know. Because if you arent...then you need to stop talking like that to me"

C)That Andy needs to talk like a friend to me...not like Im his girl. She said that if I was a girl Andy would not only have cheated on his girl with me but probably left his girl for me.

I dont know what to do guys.

If I tell Andy to cut out all the sweet talk...then he would clam up, get cold and not say that stuff anymore. My friend said ,"and thats the goal that you are looking for right? Either he does something about his feelings or he shuts up and stops leading you on right??"

And then I thought thats true. That maybe Im afraid to tell him to stop because *I* dont want it to stop...and I like hearing that stuff.

And she says to me, "of course you like hearing that stuff...who doesnt?? I would love to hear even 1/3 of what Andy tells you...the thing is hes good at doing that, he tells you just what you want to hear and at the right moment...."

She also told me to "focus on myself and my life..and that Andy knows where you are and how to get to you should he ever decide to be with you....until then he should be crying and saying all this sweet stuff to his girl...not you!!!"

I kind of agree with her guys. If not totally.

But the question that Im begging to be answered is this...How do I deal when Andy says stuff like:

1)I love you alot as a friend(he said that last night)
2)My life is not complete and Im not fully happy unles yo uare here.
3)YOU ARE THE FIRT AND ONLY PERSON TO BREAK MY HEART. Im so broken hearted..I know what people mean when they say you can die of a broken heart....I might not be here next year thats how bad I am.

Anyone...have any clue how I can respond to this??? Do I tell him flat out to cut out the talk? And in doing so, am I risking him pulling back from being so nice to me?? Will he just get cold??? VEGAS

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

As I was sending the last post, Andrew called.

And I was more open about things that I ever have been in the past few weeks.

Im very emotional right now and I will try my best to tell you what we said.

I told him some things:

1)I have no answer as what to do.
2)We have to stop doing this. You HAVE to stop saying some things, that get me confused.
3)There are some things that you should be saying to your girl and not me.
4)Dont you find it unhealthy that you cant function unless Im there or you are here?
5)I said you are there and I am here...if you want to be near me I know you will do it..and if I decide to be near you..I will do it..until then we cant keep driving each other crazy.
6)Isnt it odd that we both get insanely jealous over who we are hanging out with.


His answer to that was.."Im sorry that I care for two people in my life. I love my girl to death and would do anything for her...and as a friend..I love you too. If you dont come out here and I stay here I will become very cold...I know how I am Bri...so I guess I know officially what you are telling me. I know you are staying there...I now have to think about moving back to NYC."

I told him..its ok to miss your friends and to be sad...but its unhealthy to miss them so much that you cant function. He said the relationship we had was so unique and thats why it works.

And he goes, yeah there is a lot of unhealthy stuff in our friendship. And I was mature enough to fire the first shot.

I told me being in love with him, some people might find wrong.

He goes, "to be honest..I was mad at you for months after you told me that and in some ways I wish you never told me that..any of that.."

This made me feel so bad its not funny. This from a person who tells me never to hold back or hide anything, to always tell the truth. He said he was bothered for it for months..but during that time he never showed it to me or told me. I have no idea if he is telling the truth.

He said hes ok with it now.

I was so bad at that point I told him I had to go. And I did. Things started to become clearer to me now.

He called back a few minutes later and asked if Im ok...I said "no..but its fine..this is something that I need to work on and no one can help me out of it.."

He said he doesnt like to se me down.

He said "Bri..to be honest it was perfectly fine for me to be upset with you when you said you loved me...I was angry, hurt, weirded out...it was fine for me to be like that.."

I guess to some extent this was true...but his words cut me like a knife. If someone was stabbing me in the head a million times I dont think it would hurt as much as what he just told me.

I said thats cool..Im sorry I put you through all that at the time...I said I had to go and hung up.

I walked Dante and stretched to try and clear my head. I have been so stupid. I hate myself.

All of my life I have been guilty of havng too big of a heart. I get it from my parents. But my mom was the wise one. A friend asked her for some money at some point and my mom gave her it, and that friend never paid her back..so my mom stopped communicating with her.

My dad helps everyone out all the time, even if it means inconveniencing himself to do so. He always looked out for and cared for others in spite of himself. My dad, however, never caught onto people using him...and I guess thats where I get my heart from, both of them.

Its been such a hard four years on my heart. I have never had a significant relationship in my life, romantic or friendwise. When Andrew came along I found both in him..and it was wrong.

And it hurts me to know that the first time my heart feels love its wrong and cannot be. My heart felt something that it never felt before...and now its feeling something it has also never felt before.

I have been in a deep depression all of my life. I spent from 10 years old until my late 20's being depressed. I missed out on so much of my life. I got abused pretty bad when I was little by too many of the wrong people. I had trust issues. I had social issues. I had walls.

And a lot of that was broken down when Andy came along....and now I feel like they are going back up.


I finally am beginning to accept that he is straight and this will never be. My body is shaking and Im crying through this whole post.

I want the next two decades of my life, god willing, to go much better.

I know I am a decent person and a loving, caring ,emotional person. I have a lot to offer. I deserve so much more than this pain.

So it is with such a heavy heart that Im letting go...If Andy moves here thats great...things will change a little between us regardless. I dont care anymore. I cant possibly care anymore. I gave 300% of myself and my heart the past 4 years. There is just no more to give. If Andy stays there, so be it. Sometimes I think it would be easier if he just did.

As far as for me...Im trying to move on with my life as best as I can and keep that my main focus. Its hard though. Because I never in my life thought I was worth anything and I always put others first. Its hard to actually accept that I need to put me first and care only about me now. Its hard for me to say that and not think "god is that greedy and selfish just to think of myself.." but I have to learn that thats ok.

You have all said it over and over with me and I just never "got it".

I sure as hell get it now.

Im crying so much I cant see the screen.

Im finished with Andrew in many ways I guess. Im sure this wont be my last post asking for your help. I cant shut off my love for him like a light switch. But I am definitely pulling back. I dont know how to pull back without being cold...but Ill have to learn how to.

Im done with thinking that me and Andrew can ever be. And its sad, because it could have been one of the greatest relationships ever. My heart will forever burn for him, I cant lie. But I cant let my heart trick my brain anymore. Andrew does not love me or think of me in that way. Andrew is straight.

Andrew told me that he would come home in two seconds if I helped him financially.

But Im done with that. Iif he wants to do anything anymore, hes on his own so to speak, to some extent. I wont leave him out to dry....but Im certainly not his cushion anymore. Thats for sure.

I only hope to love and be loved as Andy is. Hes got someone he loves and hes got two people that love him dearly. Isnt that great?? That in this world full of chaos and misery that he has that?? Some people dont even see love..or even know what love is. I cant imagine what that must feel like.

There is something I wish for..someone to fill this burning in my heart. Someone to love me..as much as I can love someone.

Some will say and type, "How can you NOT find someone?? You have so much to offer..."

Well thats very nice and all but all this doesnt guarantee anything..and I know this. My life, at least the better fun loving days, is half over..and I just dont know. I feel so alone.

If you were in this room with me as Im typing this you would probably call the doctor..because my pain is to the point that im wailing and sobbing and crying.


Im so sorry I hurt Andy with the words "Im in love with you". I am not an idiot. I know its not what a friend wants to hear..expecially a straight friend. Between you all...all I ever was guilty of was loving him...and it hurts when that is made to be so wrong my many.


The last thing that I might say to Andy on this subject is this.

I am guilty of loving you, yes. Was it something you wanted to hear? Probably not. Was it something that was SO bad that it hurt you? I cant see how it did. I didnt come onto him or hit on him. I didnt say anything inappropriate to him. I was guilty of loving him.

And sometimes I feel angry at him because if ANYTHING I should have been the one hurt by his words and actions. He lied to me, used me and took me for thousands of dollars for months. Thats far worse to me than fiding out someone is in love with me.

But I just dont feel anything anymore. Im really numb now.

Thanks for listening. Vegas

 

[Kyanimal]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Bri, Dude!

The only way we know each other is through this thread. But ... I, and many, many, others, have come to Care about You, and what You're going through! You are obviously a very Intelligent, Caring, Decent, Guy! And You are so much more Deserving than what You are getting from Andy!! And ... what I am going to say is only because I've come to Care about You! Unfortunately, this is probably going to be something You don't want to hear:

Andy seems to be interested in only One thing! And, THAT is Andy!! EVERYONE should cater to Andy! He does not accept any responsibility for Himself! ALL He wants, ALL that He is concerned with, is Andy's wellbeing at the expense of Everyone Else!! And in YOU, my dear Brian, Buddy, He has found someone who is willing to give Him everything He wants! But ... and here's the "kicker"! .... He is not willing to give You very much in return!!

Are his "Other Friends", his Family, even his "Girl", willing to give Him as much as You?? NO!! And there must be reasons for that! WHY are YOU "The One" He feels closest too?? If He's such a "Great Guy", WHY are YOU the Only ONE that is giving Him what He wants/needs??? Why are YOU the Only ONE willing to send Him money??? (Make that past tense, thank goodness!) Why are YOU the Only ONE who can talk Him to sleep??? Why are YOU His main Inspiration??? Why are YOU the Only ONE that can help Him get on with His Life???? Why is it that HE is not "Complete" without YOU???? And ... though He KNOWS, fully well, what it is YOU want/need from Him, that we all Know, darned well, by now, that YOU are never going to get That from Him???

Andy wants EVERYTHING for Andy without any, or very little, effort on His part!! He isn't even willing to expend the personal Effort necessary to find, and hold, a job!! He BELIEVES "The World" OWES HIM His existence! And He has found ONE person, in YOU, with the willingness to provide Him with ALL He want/needs! ... with Very LITTLE Effort on HIS behalf!!! I'm sorry, Bri, but YOU have proven to be, nearly, a Perfect "MARK" for Andy!! As attractive, as appealing, as "Hopeful" as Your relationship may SEEM, Andy is actually Personal "Quick Sand" for YOU, or anyone else, that is remotely willing to give Him what He desires! ... at very low "cost" to Him!!!!

Is He "Using" YOU??? You bet!! Does He mean it menacingly? Probably not! He likely isn't even all that conscious of what He's doing himself! It's just the way He is!! And YOU are just the type of person that positively responds to His vibes!!

As much as I have been Hoping for a "Happy Ending", now I think I see it is time for YOU to "Cut and RUN"!! Very FAST, and very Far Away!! Andy is NOT "Good" for YOU, His Family, or even His "Girl"!! Andy is a walking "Black Hole" for anyone within His range!! He may be attractive! He may be adorable!! He may even seem to be Honorable!! He may even seem to be Worthwhile!! But ... Truth is ... He is a huge Emotional Vaccuum that You have gotten too close to!! He will never be more than a powerful force pulling YOU backward!! And it has become Critical, to YOUR Wellbeing, to distance Youself, on all fronts, from Your "Buddy"!!

Andy is Not YOUR responsibility!! Andy is ANDY'S responsibility!! Just as YOU are responsible for Yourself. Just as You try so hard to teach Your kids! But ... Andy is not willing to accept that! And he may never be!! But that is not Your fault!! It is HIS!! And until He sees that, which may never happen, YOU can NOT accept it for Him!! No One can!! Nor should anyone be expected to!!

Brian ... as far as Andy is concerned, YOU are never going to get what it is YOU need/want from Him! I doubt that Anyone ever will!! It's just the way He is! And as Hard as it might be, as Hurtful as it might feel, for Your own sake, it's time to move on! It's time to let Andy fade into Your past! It's time for Andy to begin to Deal, personally, with His own Future! It's time for Andy to take some modicum of responsibilty for Himself! And in order for Him to be able to do that, YOU, Bri, need to walk away from Him for both of Your own Good!!

It's not going to be Easy, for either of you! Not by far!! (And for different reasons!) But ... it is something that HAS to be done! YOU need to take care of Brian, and Andy needs to start taking care of Andy!! (Which he apparently hasn't been willing to do, yet!) Until BOTH of You can take care of Yourselves, how can You possibly even think of being able to take care of each other????? It's just not going to work the way that it's been going so far!! Can YOU see that?? Am I "Wrong", Bri??

My Thoughts, and Prayers, are with YOU, Brian!!

And though this may sound trite, just now ... seriously ...

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[Kyanimal]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Brian ...

The system is running slow. I was typing while You were typing! It seems you've come to realize, partially, what it was I felt I had to tell you.

I'm truly sorry, Bri! I would like to say I know how this all feels for you, but, I'm also sorry to say that I can't come close! At least I don't think so!

You're Heart is obviously Bigger than mine! Yeah! ... I've fallen for the same things! It's cost me dearly, financially, and emotionally, but I feel it's all been "worth" it ... for what I've learned ... for those I've truly been able to help ... for having the strength to continue being "Me" ... despite what I may have been "dealt" by others ...

A "Big Heart" is not a "Weakness"!! Do we get "Hurt" easier? Probably. But ... is that really a "Bad Thing"? We can recover! We can learn! We can do it again with more foresight! It makes us even more effective, when it may count even more!!

I have been taken advantage of! I have been let down! I have been disappointed in my fellow man! But ... I refuse to let it make me jaded! I refuse to start building walls! (At least ones I can't see through, myself.) I refuse to let it deminish what it is that makes Me "Me"!! I shall endeavor to continue on!! And, for each "stumble" I may have made, I am determined to emerge a stronger "Me" for it!

Will I continue to get "taken"?? Probably! But ... I'm not about the change too much!! And I do this willingly! With both eyes, and arms, open!

"COLD" is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be, "Me"!! And ... somehow I just know ... it shall never be YOU, either!!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Looking back at post 1019...

A)Andy is playing me...he knows exactly what to say...and the right time to say it.

B)You need to straight out tell him..."Dude..by the way you talk it sounds like you are in love with me...and its cool if you are..but I need to know. Because if you arent...then you need to stop talking like that to me"

C)That Andy needs to talk like a friend to me...not like Im his girl. She said that if I was a girl Andy would not only have cheated on his girl with me but probably left his girl for me.

I agree with others -- he's using you; as A) above says, he's playing you. Buy my guess is it isn't conscious at all, but it's how he learned to deal with the world. But the only way to deal with it from your side is to implement B) and C) from that post. Even after that last conversation, I'd read B) to him just as it is -- and then tell him how much it tears you apart, leaves you frustrated, unhappy, depressed, lost, confused... all those words you've used in your posts.
But also tell him he should honestly ask himself what's going on, before he answers. Explain how it's totally possible for someone to be in love like that without even acknowledging it. Don't give him time to think so much as make him take time to think.
When he comes back with an answer, then it's time for a talk about commitment. If he's in love with you both, you both need to know that -- unless he wants to kill the one, and stick with his girl, in which case, C) applies. And put your foot down; no nonsense!

That's enough to tackle for now -- get it hammered out, and get back to us.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Well, Im back with another update. I let a few days pass before posting again to kind of let things simmer down.

After I updated you all last, I finally opened up to Andrew.

In an intense conversation, he asked me if I had feelings for him still and I said yes . He also asked why it has been so hard for me. I told him its hard to be so in love with somebody who doesnt give it back. I told him I know he loves me but I know he doesnt love me in the way that I need to be loved. He asked me what can he do to help and better yet what can I do to start getting out and meeting the right person. I told him its not easy at all, and I only hope to meet someone who I care for even 1/3 of the care I have for him. I told him I deserve someone who is going to love me back.

The days that followed, the talks remained intense..in many ways.

The stress of this all had gotten to us on many occasion and we just ended up arguing ..and then apologizing minutes later .

I had a talk with Andrew two days ago. We were talking about his friend Mike and how Mikes girl came onto Andrew years ago. We talked about Mike and how Andy thinks hes odd a little. He said as a kid he slept in his bed and when Andrew awoke Mike had his legs wrapped around him. He also said Mike drunkedly admitted to having shoved things up his ass for years. Mikes girl said hes horrible in bed and doesnt know how to treat a lady. Mike has gotten into hostile fights with his girls. Mike showed Andrew a picture one time of a girl sucking his cock. And mike and Andrew have had sex with women in the same room.

Some of the things that he said about Mike seem to point that Mike might be gay or at least bi..but I dont know . Even Andrew questions in his head if Mike is gay. Andy said how odd that would be that his two best friends turn out to be gay...and I told him that we are better friends to him than anyone else. He agreed and said that gay people in general are nicer becasue they have been through a lot and can understand more.

I had to ask. I asked about Mikes cock size. And Andy said he was at least 11 inches ...and how him and his friend used to call Mike a freak when they were little. I told Andy Id be all over that for hours and he just laughed.

While we were talking about Mike shoving stuff up his ass...He told me that he thinks a hole is a hole and a mouth it a mouth...he said hes not into giving anal but would ifthe girl wants it. He said how he can see how giving anal to a girl might be gay too. Andy told me he thinks that everyone has gay tendancies and he thinks all people are born bi-sexual and that people's life and choices make them who they are .

We also talked about how down he is about me not being there.

Some news is that he got a job in a locksmith company . Everyone is happy but him. Him taking the job means that hes going to settle down there and he cant without me. He needs me there and is still seriously considering coming home. He told me that if he messes this job up his girl will leave him.

I asked Andrew if he talked to his girl about why he is truly down. He said yes and that when he mentioned me, she just rolled her eyes . I can understand her frustration...here is her fiancee dragging his feet on starting his life with her, but he refuses to do so unless Im in his life.

Yesterday he called me saying "fuck everyone", including his girl, if they think anything bad about our friendship.

He said, "Bri..I think even my girl is replaceable...but you are definitely not...I can never replace you or go on without you..."

Yesterday he called me during the Met game bawling that he cant be here to watch it with me.

I talked him to sleep yesterday..and at his request stayed on after he started sleeping just in case he woke up with anxiety. I listened to him snore and sleep for 15-20 minutes . I talked him to sleep again this morning.

I am trying my best to move on, while taking his comments for what they are..just friendly, sweet comments. Im not reading into them anymore than I should...although its hard.

I am staying here in NYC. If he misses me that much he will come home to me. And if for some reason he has anything ehs questioning he already knows to tell me and to open u to me..as he already knows for sure now that Im in love with him and always will be.

Thats kind of the update for now...I will update soon. TTYL VEGAS

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Todd-Your post was very rational and well written-so much so that I had to read it several times-as each time it made me feel better and better. I agree, whole-heartedly with all that you have said.

Just a small update.

Andy told me that he had several talks with his girl and that they are both willing to come home IF they had the money. Andy asks me here and there if Im willing to help him out with a loan...and he will definitely come back.

Its a tough situation. My answer to him about the loan always has been and IS "no".

It makes me uncomfortable. He begged me so long to do the loan so I can come out THERE. And now hes begging me for the loan so he can come back HERE. Its too much pressure and I have told him so.

Its only hard because I could easily do it and have Andy back here.

I have to be honest..if Andy was single I might consider it. But hes not...and I have no intent nor desire to get a loan to support him AND his girl(as nice as she is).

I love them both in my own way, but I just cant bring myself to do the loan ever. I was brought up too money conscious.

So right now he is supposed to be getting a call from a guy about the job this week and when to start. The guy has not called and Andy told me today that he is hoping the guy doesnt call...as he is not feeling like taking the job.

I am moving on here. Im rennovating my apt this winter and will buy tons of cool stuff and make my life here for a few years . I want to start dating soon. I would like to find Mr. RIGHT.

I feel so lonely nowadays . Its funny..Im not desperate but I really want to find someone to share my life and love with. Its a fine line to cross. I mean somedays I feel like Im the stereotypical girl who looks around and all her friends are getting married and she NEEDS to get married ....and then there is the side of me that says dont rush...it will "just happen" . I dont know anymore...my lonliness gets to me often.

Anyway, thats all for now....thanks for hanging in there...VEGAS

 

[lostparker17]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Well, Mr. Vegas, I have read several pages in this thread and then skipped to the last to find out that Andy has been hitting you up for cash.

I had a very special friend in college that developed into mutual love: platonic for him and oh so much more for me. We did everything together for several years always expressing out love for each other. He told me one day that he knew about homosexuals (this was in the 70's) and was accepting of them, but he was not gay and never would be.

I too got tired of having my heart broken and we drifted our separate ways, staying in touch the old fashioned way (snail mail, telco). One day, he calls me and says he needs five hundred to make rent. Since we had always said we would be there for each other, I unhesitatingly sent him the check.

Never heard from him again. Found out he was living in California (his mom told me) and got his phone number. On my next biz trip to San Diego, I called him and he invited me over to his apartment. Oh, my God, he has been living with a guy that was in a band he used to sing for: THEY ARE LOVERS!

I became physically ill and had to leave. That was 15 years ago and I am still stung by what could have been, had he only admitted it to himself.

Just wanted to share a similar tale. I know what you are going through.

Best of luck to you, Bri.

 

[LostVegas]

Re: Undying love for my best friend...please read(long)

Hello all. Back with another update.

Yesterday, October 20th, 2006 was my older brother's birthday.

My family and I, and tons of his friends, went out to New York City to celebrate at some German restaurant Rolf's.

The restaurant was one of those REALLY, REALLY tight restaurants that you usually find in NYC. One false move and I was in someone else's dinner plate. The bathroom made the one on an airplane looke like a mansion.

The weather outside last night was totally my kind of weather. It was pretty darnn cool and very gusty. Definite October weather.

I forget how busy and odd the people of NYC can seem.

We stayed at the restaurant a few hours, and it was getting to be late..around 11:30pm.

We had my brothers birthday cake. My mom paid the whole bill for the table. I kept trying to find out how much it was but she kept it secret.

It was odd seeing my folks out in NYC. They worked in the city all of their lives but recently, as in the past 5 years, have not really ventured there.

It was even more odd to see my mom out with my older brothers' friends. She has metthem before, but its always odd.

My older brother is gay and partnered for what has to be going on 8 years now.

My mom has never really accepted it in her heart that her son is gay and partnered.

Its not like she disowned him or anything. She even gets along with his partner to some extent. But for some reason she has not fully accepted it. This is why my coming out will be hard. Im her favorite boy. I can do no wrong by her. When I tell her this year, it is going to be very painful.

At the party, when everyone was kind of talking and doing their thing..I went into a haze. I started to get depressed. I didnt show it and you couldnt tell by looking at me(Ive mastered that), but I was depressed.

I looked around and saw my brother with his partner and all of his friends. I thought about all of the friends my younger brother has..and then I thought of me. I have not one friend at all, and the one I do have is not even here.

The second thing I got down about was a talk the two of my brothers were having in front of me. Both brothers and their S.O.'s were talking of going on an Alaskan cruise together. It struck me as odd. I didnt get mad or anything, but it did make me feel left out. I mean was it because Im not with anyone that I can be so overlooked? I often feel left out because I have no one in my life.

I see myself quickly becoming my parents. And that is good and bad. Good, in that I took so much great qualities from them. Bad because they are aloneand have no friends and life. And here I am in the same boat. They dont like to go out and are home bodies. And so am I. I promised myself right then and there not to become that and to fight it and work on myself this year.

Anyway, back to the party. We had the cake and sung for my brother. It was 11pm around this time. The table next to us had a party of about 15. They had a woman in her 30's celebrating her birthday too, and were pretty talkative with us throughout the night. I overheard that they were about to order dessert. So ileaned over to my mom and whispered, "Hey ma, since there is about 3/4 of our sheet cake left, why dont we offer it to theo ther table?"

She said, "What a wonderful idea!"

We go over and ask, and the two of the young ladies were almost in tears that we offered them our cake. We saved them a lot of money on dessert and they were very grateful. We had them put candles in the cake and our table sung Happy Birthday to her too. They were so incredibly taken back at how we offered them the cake. It was a nice moment.

My mom turns to me and says, "you have such a kind heart.."

I cam home from the night and I checked my machine. Still no message from Andy. It has been two days and nights now that we have not spoken. I didnt call him because of how tired I know he is from his first few days.

Oh I guess I should tell you. Andy began that locksmith/safe job. He likes it more than he thought he would and at the same time he is sad.

He called last night at 6am my time and I almost didnt pick it up. In fact, if I recall, I didnt pick it up. He called a thirdtime and I gave in. Turns out, I should have never picked up at all.

I told him about my few days and he told me about his.

He told me that things are going to change with us. He said we are going to get colder and it has already begun to happen. He told me that we will always be friends but it will be on a different level. He said I will regret not coming back out there in the future. He also told me that if I just helped him outwith a loan he would come back here..and that the longer he stays in Vegas, the more he will be there for good.

This was great. Just what I wanted to hear at 6am.

I started to cry to him and he seemed indifferent and cold. I asked him why. He said this is how its going to be from now on.

I said hes only acting like this for two reasons.

1)To scare me into coming out there and to do the loan.
2) The fact that Andy doesnt like the pain hes going through and wants it to go away. So he will do that by being cold to me.

I hung up with him and cried . I called him back as my conversation with him felt so very cold and unfinished.

I asked him why he couldnt just save up the money himself, now that they both are working and just come back here. He said that would take over a year, and by then he would be settled. I cried some more and Andrew was very cold. He said he was tired and wanted to go. I cried and said I dont want this to happen to another friend. "You are the only friend I've got."

He said well this is how things are going to go down if something doesnt happen . I let him go and have not spoken to him at all today yet .

TTYL VEGAS