What’s With Mindy’s White-Guy Obsession on ‘The Mindy Project’?

[xbuzzerx]

My point is, I doubt I could name 20 white American actors. It isn't that relevant.

If 4.8% of Americans have asian ancestry and this was reflected in my knowledge of Hollywood, then I should be able to name 417 other actors for every 20 of asian background. Four hundred and seventeen.

If I could name 20 black American actors, that would mean I would have to name 159 other American actors.

If I could name 20 "Native-Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander Americans" I would have to be able to name 10 000 other actors.

I've heard people complain too about the lack of ethnically diverse gay representation in film. If I knew 20 gay black actors, I would have to list 3970 other actors.

A more realistic standard would improve the discussion.

You're talking about quota systems, Bankside. I'm not talking about some universal yardstick of perfect proportion and I already pointed that out once, and now I'm saying it twice.

There may only be 100, or 200, or 300 actors covering the majority of what you see on primetime television. That's a small enough grouping that it's very easy to leave a lot of people out altogether as you flip from show to show to show that is either entirely white, or almost entirely white with its 1 token black person.

It's a lot more noticeable in advertisements, where you might see that many models in a single magazine or catalogue, for example, and few or none of them are something other than white.

Again, you are failing to appreciate the difference between somehow anally reaching a metric of perfect representation (which no one besides you has discussed) and rising above the level of being almost completely left out/invisible.

You couldn't answer any of my questions about whether you could think of any Asian-Am couples on television or anything else, so I take it to mean you're as stumped as I am, which proves my point. You don't get to simply wave it off and say "it isn't that relevant" when it's *entirely* relevant to what I am saying. The metric system you keep bringing up is what isn't relevant.

 

[MorrisseyX]

But what about Hawaii Five O The new version? It is a rare television show where Asian men are shown to be STUDS and being sexy. I think this is the only television show I can think of where Asian men are not depicted as geeks, dorks, nerds, or speaking with a foreign accent.

Hawaii Five O has broken down a lot of barriers in how they depict Asian male sexuality.

On Hawaii Five O the Asian men such as Chin, Adam Nishimori are HANDSOME, TALL, MUSCULAR, and STUDS! The Asian men on Hawaii Five O the vast majority of them are shown to be very attractive Asian men who GET THE GIRL they get SEX SCENES. Adam Nishimori is a Japanese criminal his character is in a relationship with the Asian female cop Kono but their romance is my favourite romantic storyline on the show. I also think Chin, he had a white wife I believe but she got killed off. But still, the Asian men on Hawaii Five O aren't stereotypes they are shown to be gorgeous, muscular, sexually attractive Asian men who women DESIRE.

 

[xbuzzerx]

But what about Hawaii Five O The new version? It is a rare television show where Asian men are shown to be STUDS and being sexy. I think this is the only television show I can think of where Asian men are not depicted as geeks, dorks, nerds, or speaking with a foreign accent.

Hawaii Five O has broken down a lot of barriers in how they depict Asian male sexuality.

On Hawaii Five O the Asian men such as Chin, Adam Nishimori are HANDSOME, TALL, MUSCULAR, and STUDS! The Asian men on Hawaii Five O the vast majority of them are shown to be very attractive Asian men who GET THE GIRL they get SEX SCENES. Adam Nishimori is a Japanese criminal his character is in a relationship with the Asian female cop Kono but their romance is my favourite romantic storyline on the show. I also think Chin, he had a white wife I believe but she got killed off. But still, the Asian men on Hawaii Five O aren't stereotypes they are shown to be gorgeous, muscular, sexually attractive Asian men who women DESIRE.

And that's a notable and welcome exception. As you say, an overwhelming amount of what you'll see anywhere else is a bit part stereotype.

 

[MorrisseyX]

My point is, I doubt I could name 20 white American actors. It isn't that relevant.

If 4.8% of Americans have asian ancestry and this was reflected in my knowledge of Hollywood, then I should be able to name 417 other actors for every 20 of asian background. Four hundred and seventeen.

If I could name 20 black American actors, that would mean I would have to name 159 other American actors.

If I could name 20 "Native-Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander Americans" I would have to be able to name 10 000 other actors.

I've heard people complain too about the lack of ethnically diverse gay representation in film. If I knew 20 gay black actors, I would have to list 3970 other actors.

A more realistic standard would improve the discussion.

Yes, Asian Americans are a minority in America, no one is disputing this. However, I do think television and movies should be doing a better job.

People want to see themselves represented in pop culture and not be reduced to racist stereotypes.

I have a problem with the Indian American character Raj and Big Bang Theory, why does he have to speak with an accent? Why does the Indian guy have to be depicted as a foreigner and not as American?

Asian men are treated differently than Asian women in pop culture. The Asian female by contrast gets to be sexy, attractive, non foreign and AMERICAN.

Lucy Liu is probably the most successful Asian American female actress EVER she's been on Ally McBeal, hit movies such as Kill Bill, Charlie Angels ect. and now she's the female lead on CBS Elementary.

John Cho is a very handsome Asian male actor, he's done well he was in Harold and Kumar movie series, and also as Sulu in Star Trek.

Yet, has John Cho ever headlined a Hollywood film on his own based on his own name? Would anyone give John Cho a chance?

John Cho is a solid actor and the man is gorgeous. Ditto for Kal Penn, he's proven he can do comedy and drama. Have people seen the film The Namesake? Kal Penn should of gotten an Oscar nomination he was amazing in that film it was a tough role a dramatic role he can ACT!

Kal Penn used to be on House, I hear Kal has some movie roles coming next year I think, but both he and John Cho should be leading men they are HANDSOME, YOUNG, and talented actors, but due to race they aren't getting the higher profile roles I feel.

When is Kal Penn going to get that huge movie role?

 

[Latimer]

But what about Hawaii Five O The new version? It is a rare television show where Asian men are shown to be STUDS and being sexy. I think this is the only television show I can think of where Asian men are not depicted as geeks, dorks, nerds, or speaking with a foreign accent.

Hawaii Five O has broken down a lot of barriers in how they depict Asian male sexuality.

On Hawaii Five O the Asian men such as Chin, Adam Nishimori are HANDSOME, TALL, MUSCULAR, and STUDS! The Asian men on Hawaii Five O the vast majority of them are shown to be very attractive Asian men who GET THE GIRL they get SEX SCENES. Adam Nishimori is a Japanese criminal his character is in a relationship with the Asian female cop Kono but their romance is my favourite romantic storyline on the show. I also think Chin, he had a white wife I believe but she got killed off. But still, the Asian men on Hawaii Five O aren't stereotypes they are shown to be gorgeous, muscular, sexually attractive Asian men who women DESIRE.

To my knowledge (I only saw the first one) the Fast and Furious films have always included gorgeous Asian men, and one of the films was set in Tokyo. The producer of the series has been quoted as saying that having minority actors in important roles is part of the marketing strategy.

 

[Latimer]

Winston Chao is hot. Scene from The Wedding Banquet:

 

[bankside]

You're talking about quota systems, Bankside. I'm not talking about some universal yardstick of perfect proportion and I already pointed that out once, and now I'm saying it twice.

There may only be 100, or 200, or 300 actors covering the majority of what you see on primetime television. That's a small enough grouping that it's very easy to leave a lot of people out altogether as you flip from show to show to show that is either entirely white, or almost entirely white with its 1 token black person.

It's a lot more noticeable in advertisements, where you might see that many models in a single magazine or catalogue, for example, and few or none of them are something other than white.

Again, you are failing to appreciate the difference between somehow anally reaching a metric of perfect representation (which no one besides you has discussed) and rising above the level of being almost completely left out/invisible.

You couldn't answer any of my questions about whether you could think of any Asian-Am couples on television or anything else, so I take it to mean you're as stumped as I am, which proves my point. You don't get to simply wave it off and say "it isn't that relevant" when it's *entirely* relevant to what I am saying. The metric system you keep bringing up is what isn't relevant.

No, I'm sorry but you brought up the quota. Your quota was 20, or at least 10, people of asian ancestry prominent in film. I think that is an unrealistic expectation. If people could name 20 asian actors off the top of their heads, it would mean the arts were unrepresentative, and biased to exclude everyone but asians. Depending on the demographic combination that matters to someone "almost completely left out/invisible" is probably realistic. Being able to name 20 people from that demographic is not. But more to the point, I'm not sure it should matter. As a Canadian, it is quick and cheap for cable companies to pump in nothing but US channels. Finding relevant cultural representations of my culture on TV is incredibly rare. But I still have a vibrant culture and I still have a vibrant identity. So not only do I question whether the number should be 20, I also question whether it really matters.

 

[bankside]

Yes, Asian Americans are a minority in America, no one is disputing this. However, I do think television and movies should be doing a better job.

People want to see themselves represented in pop culture and not be reduced to racist stereotypes.

I have a problem with the Indian American character Raj and Big Bang Theory, why does he have to speak with an accent? Why does the Indian guy have to be depicted as a foreigner and not as American?

Asian men are treated differently than Asian women in pop culture. The Asian female by contrast gets to be sexy, attractive, non foreign and AMERICAN.

Lucy Liu is probably the most successful Asian American female actress EVER she's been on Ally McBeal, hit movies such as Kill Bill, Charlie Angels ect. and now she's the female lead on CBS Elementary.

John Cho is a very handsome Asian male actor, he's done well he was in Harold and Kumar movie series, and also as Sulu in Star Trek.

Yet, has John Cho ever headlined a Hollywood film on his own based on his own name? Would anyone give John Cho a chance?

John Cho is a solid actor and the man is gorgeous. Ditto for Kal Penn, he's proven he can do comedy and drama. Have people seen the film The Namesake? Kal Penn should of gotten an Oscar nomination he was amazing in that film it was a tough role a dramatic role he can ACT!

Kal Penn used to be on House, I hear Kal has some movie roles coming next year I think, but both he and John Cho should be leading men they are HANDSOME, YOUNG, and talented actors, but due to race they aren't getting the higher profile roles I feel.

When is Kal Penn going to get that huge movie role?

Okay this makes more sense to me when you talk about the way people are portrayed rather than strictly the numbers.

As far as I know, the character of Raj is not American; he's an Indian, period. (he's even played by a British guy raised in India.) And I love Raj! I relate to Raj! He's one of the missing brown people I mentioned above that does make the show more representative of western Canada. And half of my brown friends and co-workers are recent immigrants, and they do speak with an accent like his. At least here, a "foreigner" would be accepted as an equal part of the program, not some lesser representation because he isn't American.

Raj makes the show more relatable to me, because he is representative of my community and my social circles. So I even get why representativeness matters. But the double-edge there is exactly the difference between you and me. You find the character alienating, and I find the character relatable. Is that the case for any minority person? Is someone else out there saying "I wish they had cast Raj as a filipino instead."

 

[Callum]

I dunno, I'm just popping in to say I have a recent new-found love for Asian men. But I'm not Mindy Kaling.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Okay this makes more sense to me when you talk about the way people are portrayed rather than strictly the numbers.

As far as I know, the character of Raj is not American; he's an Indian, period. (he's even played by a British guy raised in India.) And I love Raj! I relate to Raj! He's one of the missing brown people I mentioned above that does make the show more representative of western Canada. And half of my brown friends and co-workers are recent immigrants, and they do speak with an accent like his. At least here, a "foreigner" would be accepted as an equal part of the program, not some lesser representation because he isn't American.

Raj makes the show more relatable to me, because he is representative of my community and my social circles. So I even get why representativeness matters. But the double-edge there is exactly the difference between you and me. You find the character alienating, and I find the character relatable. Is that the case for any minority person? Is someone else out there saying "I wish they had cast Raj as a filipino instead."

Shortage of depiction will inherently limit the types of depictions... not sure how it's unclear they're related.

 

[bankside]

Shortage of depiction will inherently limit the types of depictions... not sure how it's unclear they're related.

Okay if we'd agree to promote more asian roles, you might see a greater diversity of depictions, but given the size of the population there might not be that many more roles. So the depictions would still be limited. And the role itself does matter. If there is only going to be one primetime asian character on TV, it would be nice if he wasn't cast in a historical drama about the early 1900s running the town laundry.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Okay if we'd agree to promote more asian roles, you might see a greater diversity of depictions, but given the size of the population there might not be that many more roles. So the depictions would still be limited. And the role itself does matter. If there is only going to be one primetime asian character on TV, it would be nice if he wasn't cast in a historical drama about the early 1900s running the town laundry.

Of course the role matters. No one here ever implied otherwise. You seem to be implying a false choice between quality of role/depiction/inclusion in big spotlight and sheer quantity by number of roles that I don't think anyone here made.

 

[bankside]

No you're reading into it. My point was that your standard of being able to name 20 asian stars in hollywood was unrealistic mathematically, and because hollywood is not as important as I think you think it is. And though I agree that roles are important, the math will limit how many roles there will be and thus the range of portrayals possible. Your choice was to bring up the number of roles.

 

[xbuzzerx]

No you're reading into it. My point was that your standard of being able to name 20 asian stars in hollywood was unrealistic mathematically, and because hollywood is not as important as I think you think it is. And though I agree that roles are important, the math will limit how many roles there will be and thus the range of portrayals possible. Your choice was to bring up the number of roles.

I return to an example brought up earlier in the discussion.

How many of us know many-- in real life, movies, and TV-- white guys who dated Asian women?

How many Asian men have a white girlfriend or wife in TV or movies?

There's a pretty large difference. These things do send messages even if most of the people receiving those messages aren't really consciously aware of how it shapes how they look at people, or even potential mates.

 

[zombiekiller]

I return to an example brought up earlier in the discussion.

How many of us know many-- in real life, movies, and TV-- white guys who dated Asian women?

How many Asian men have a white girlfriend or wife in TV or movies?

There's a pretty large difference. These things do send messages even if most of the people receiving those messages aren't really consciously aware of how it shapes how they look at people, or even potential mates.

Not just men and women. There is a pattern in the gay side as well. I don't know about Cali, but over here in Chicago, we always tend to see Asian-white mix couples with the Asian guy being the feminine, submissive role. As far as I know, my boyfriend and I are the only Asian-white couple with the white guy being the more feminine role.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Not just men and women. There is a pattern in the gay side as well. I don't know about Cali, but over here in Chicago, we always tend to see Asian-white mix couples with the Asian guy being the feminine, submissive role. As far as I know, my boyfriend and I are the only Asian-white couple with the white guy being the more feminine role.

I've seen that even on this website... I recall one statement that really stuck in my head, "Yeah, I'd love to meet an Asian top but they're like unicorns." You're definitely right that at the very least the perception of that locked-in role for Asian men seems to be there.

 

[JayQueer]

I've seen that even on this website... I recall one statement that really stuck in my head, "Yeah, I'd love to meet an Asian top but they're like unicorns." You're definitely right that at the very least the perception of that locked-in role for Asian men seems to be there.

Do White guys like Indian bottoms?

There's this White guy on Craigslist in the L.A. section who frequently posts about how he wants to meet an Indian top........and I'm like dammit! Why couldn't you be a masculine White top looking for an Indian bottom!?!

 

[bankside]

Because something doesn't personally effect Bankside, it can't be relevant.

Hmmmm... where have I heard this before?

My point was it doesn't personally affect many people.

 

[xbuzzerx]

My point was it doesn't personally affect many people.

So it's irrelevant based off a metric and your summary judgment of that metric?

Also who put you in charge of what effects groups outside your own, by how much, and how relevant it is?

 

[bankside]

I am inside my own group with all the rest of the world. I am always in charge of my own opinion. You are trying very hard to see things in my writing that I've not written there.

If you go back to my first post in this thread, it was to say this Mindy on the show I've never seen or heard of should date an east asian guy who should be written into the cast of the show I've never seen or heard of, which is apparently your goal too. And that it seems a little creepy to me when characters are colour coordinated all the time. Interracial couples are normal. People, and TV characters should not be confined to monoracial couples, because it looks faker than a 1970's pantsuit to be so matchy-matchy. Life isn't like that, and pretending that is diverse television is foolish. A white guy is not a status symbol. But neither is an asian guy, so why not cast him as Mindy's next fling. The main point was, however, this is TV. Not a supreme court nomination. Not a space shuttle launch. Not a Nobel Prize. TfuckingV.