what a load of bullshit. disciplining your kids with a belt may increase the risk of a mental illness.

[frankfrank]

[never mind...post reconsidered]

 

[MMMonsterBoy]

I would get spanked by then step father and my mother! Sometimes it was with a belt, sometimes it wasn't.

I do know I wasn't screaming in stores, running around restaurants, or hitting my mother.

They haven't diagnosed me....yet! But there's always an exception

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

it's very easy to use science to back up a certain viewpoint nowadays but the truth of the matter is that in order to be able to raise a child, you have to be able to have the power to discipline them and to be able to guide them. sometimes, discipline comes through the use of fear by showing a consequence behind an action to get a kid not to do it.

plenty of people i know caught asswhippings and came out to be productive citizens compared to some people outthere that are locked up and the whole nine because their parents were scared to discipline them.



how so?

confusing cause and effect
Dont even have kids
Denouncing scientific research just because it contradicts our culture
The obvious common sense behind raising a child in fear of violence doesnt even SOUND healthy

You suck at life and debate.

In my culture violent discipline has been a staple for years. The results? Zero. Still teen pregnancy, still high crime, still poverty and dropping out of school.

Hey, you know what sounds like a good idea? that thing we've been doing for decades that has proven itself utterly useless.

The reality about physical discipline is its often an excuse for angry parents with unresolved issues to use their child as a legal punching bag.

- - - Updated - - -

You can establish authority without the whip. Or without even threatening the whip.

Lex

But that would require, like, being creative and stuff.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

confusing cause and effect

I don't know; it seems that disrespect is up even as less corporal punishment is used. Seems pretty basic cause and effect to me...

Denouncing scientific research just because it contradicts our culture

I'd say it's denouncing yet another paper that looks at a specific punishment without looking at other punishments and the damage they may cause. We already know that words can do their own damage, and in fact can do a lot more damage to a kid than physical abuse. That's also ignoring humiliation and other forms of punishment that can easily lead to the CPS being called.

I also think that's lack of critical thinking skills to say that something that causes 2-7% of the walking wounded, ie, those with mental disorders, is a major epidemic in and of itself, especially when it's only based on the worst 6% of those in the study rather than all of those in the study. Also, the study's only criterion was if the punishment was abusive in the first place, and didn't look to see if other punishment or reward systems were in place. But, hey, you couldn't be bothered to actually read the article I'm guessing...

The obvious common sense behind raising a child in fear of violence doesnt even SOUND healthy

The problem is that that could be said of any punishment, as most punishment relies on some degree of fear. And I personally debate the efficacy of time-outs, but that's because I see anything that gives a kid a chance to nurse a grudge rather than actually think about the negative ramifications of his own actions as bad...

You suck at life and debate.

Care to use actual facts at some point? Or are you trying to drive home the point that verbal abuse is also possible?

In my culture violent discipline has been a staple for years. The results? Zero. Still teen pregnancy, still high crime, still poverty and dropping out of school.

You'll always have poverty, crime, and dropping out of school. However, violent crime and teen pregnancy are down.

SO...what punishment would you recommend? Interesting how you haven't exactly suggested one. Oh, and let's make it interesting: Suggest one that doesn't lead to its own abuse. Ready? GO!

RG

 

[Ram]

There has to be a balance. Disciplining your kid with the cane/belt can be effective, only if it is coupled with love. So the next time you beat your kid, you betta smile and like it.

My entire family was disciplined by the rod. My mum would kick the fucking shit out of me for every single mistake I make. I remember this one time I crossed the street without looking and my mum took out her flip-flop and whooped my ass right there in the middle of the road, stopping traffic.

But I know she loves me. And like all the other kids in this typical Asian country, I grew up with bruises and love. IMO, "violence" works but there must be learning to done and loving to be shown. If I didn't receive that kind of harsh treatment, I don't think I would be where I am right now. I feel successful, driven and most importantly sane.

I never really understood the Western way of raising kids. Go to room, no dinner for you. Please let me understand you even though you are just 4 years old. You are parent, act like one.

 

[Alistair]

And I would have to figure that with corporal abuse, a parent can raise a child to flinch - a lot - physically, mentally and emotionally.

Its amazing how many people are diagnosed with depression and anxiety. While not all were savagely beaten as children, often they cite some sort of "abuse" in their early years as being a root cause (at least as they can identify a root cause).

And again, why wouldn't being physically beaten by one's own parent/s cause a child to fall into depression, suffer anxiety and perhaps become completely untrusting of authority figures and those in positions of trust.

Pardon my editing your full post, but these have meaning for me.

As someone that was severely whipped for discipline as a child, I completely agree. My father used a split leather belt to discipline us. I not only think it causes a mistrust of authority figures, but more importantly I also think it causes a lifelong mistrust of loved ones. I've never been diagnosed with any mental illness, or depression. I can certainly say that I have always had anxiety about relationships. I have always had a fear that my loved one is going to hurt me. I truly believe that is from the fear of my father's abuse.

I did grow up to be a productive person, but I can guarantee you that was not from the discipline. That is all due to the core beliefs that I have developed as an adult. The only thing the discipline provided was life long insecurity, hurt and anger.

 

[FanofFiction]

I've read all the posts in this thread and I have to say that I agree with the side who feels kids should not be beaten.

Violence breeds violence. And if the only way you have "power" over a child is by beating them... you really have no power at all.

I was never beat as a kid. I turned out pretty decent I think. No criminal record, never late paying taxes, never stole anything... So clearly, you don't have to beat your kids to raise them well.

 

[jasoncrew03]

I got this when I was a kid:

My mental state is perfectly fine. Even without my own personal experience, I call bullshit as well on the "research" I'm am absolutely positive one could conduct a study that would show spanking kids is beneficial to future behavior - manipulating studies is very easy). Nearly all the children of those generations were spanked/hit or whatnot and they turned out fine for the most part as well.

Edit: And here's a link to a study saying spanking is good. Now, I don't mean to say this study is right or wrong - just to show that one study should not be taken as universal proof.

 

[jasoncrew03]

And for the last part, so people from your generation who were beat don't murder?

Read my post again.

 

[Alistair]

Nearly all the children of those generations were spanked/hit or whatnot and they turned out fine for the most part as well.

Yep, my dad's whipping's turned him into a fine child abuser himself

 

[jasoncrew03]

Yep, my dad's whipping's turned him into a fine child abuser himself

Being a child abuser also put him in the minority of the population, which I accounted for

 

[jasoncrew03]

I don't know why people are trying to debunk the research as a whole. The research is there and it's true. The research isn't saying that spanking will cause one to develop mental disorders, but it just increases the risk. With that, just because people here have been spanked or whipped and turned out fine doesn't mean they didn't have an increased risk.

It's important to know the difference between causation and association. You can't dismiss the research just because it didn't apply to you and/or a few others you know.

And like I said earlier, there are also studies that show spanking is beneficial. One study does not equate to proof.

 

[jasoncrew03]

I don't need to.

If you don't feel the need to, that's perfectly fine - it really doesn't affect me. But you completely misinterpreted what I said.

 

[jasoncrew03]

And that's why this "debate" is at a stalemate

I agree. And that's all I have left to say.

 

[Audio Tech]

Well, this has been interesting reading so far.

But one could just as well argue that raising a child in a devoutly religious environment can lead to serious mental problems.
SO where is THAT study?

 

[jasoncrew03]

No I didn't.

*Sigh* You said:

And for the last part, so people from your generation who were beat don't murder? They don't rape? Steal? Cause violence to other people?

I said:

Nearly all the children of those generations were spanked/hit or whatnot and they turned out fine for the most part as well.

I did not say my generation, I said "those generations" implying previous generations - on whom the full effect of spanking can be witnessed because we are able to analyze it's effect over the course of their entire lifetime, the same cannot be said of my generation most of whom are barely adults. Misinterpretation number one. Also I made a point of saying "nearly" and "for the most part" because I am well aware that nothing applies to every person on the planet, especially murder and rape which only a very small amount of the population do and I made sure of acknowledging that. Misinterpretation number two.

You can't call the research bullshit and claim that something like this works for the most part. While also pointing out the possible fallacy of "research" and/or "study". So you think it's bullshit based on your personal experience. You're looking at it black and white.

I never claimed spanking works, I just said I was spanked and am not mentally ill. And also, the fallacy of research is exactly the reason why I can call bullshit on a study especially when I find another study that perfectly contradicts this one. And while my personal experience is a factor in my belief, so are the personal experiences of others I have encountered as well as other studies I have read. How is that any different than you, especially with the mention of the effect spanking had on people you know?

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

But I have to say that whether spanking actually "works" I don't totally agree with it but I won't tell people what to do with their kids. I don't think it's going to work with every kid, one kid might be ok with it another kid might not like being hit at all. And I think when inanimate objects are involved, that goes beyond "discipline". Cause the only reason to grab something like a belt or something would be to cause more pain and that's stepping out of the realm of discipline.

That's pretty much what I've trying to say. Spanking doesn't work for every child, but it is an option if all other forms of discipline fail. I also believe that using a belt or anything other than a bare hand to spank is totally uncalled for.

 

[jasoncrew03]

..came off a bit of "matter of fact" when you pretty much disregarded studies. And if you didn't it mean it that way, again I apologize.

But it is a matter of fact (at least in the context of my posts). The majority of people from previous generations are not mentally ill (of course, I'm not including things like Alzheimers or Dementia which are common with age), nor are they rapists or murderers or thieves despite the fact that they lived in a time when going to even more extremes than spanking was a common practice while discipling ones child. That was the point I was trying to make. If you need a study to tell you that most people's parents and grandparents aren't murderers and rapists, I honestly don't have a response. And you were partially correct in your assumption, but what you did misconstrue may be my own fault. I do not completely disregard the correlation and evidence the OP's study presents, however, I do disregard the notion that this study by some means proves that spanking is detrimental to the health of all children.

But I have to say that whether spanking actually "works" I don't totally agree with it but I won't tell people what to do with their kids. I don't think it's going to work with every kid, one kid might be ok with it another kid might not like being hit at all. And I think when inanimate objects are involved, that goes beyond "discipline". Cause the only reason to grab something like a belt or something would be to cause more pain and that's stepping out of the realm of discipline.

I can see your point and agree with most of it. I too believe spanking should not be an initial response to misbehavior but I was also one of those children from whom no other form of discipline or behavior modification (including therapy) worked besides spanking. So I simply cannot agree with those who say spanking is unacceptable under any circumstance.

Guys, there's a difference between a whipping and a beating. We knew it then, and I understand it now.

Hear, hear.

 

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

And that's why this "debate" is at a stalemate. And that's why I said it's not completely bullshit. Sometimes it is bullshit, other times it's not. Children react differently to different form of punishment. I got yelled at, I turned out fine. Some people get whipped, they turn out fine. Everyone has different thresholds.

But I don't believe that parents should start out spanking their children as a form of discipline. Inflicting fear and pain should be the "last resort" if the parents resort to it at all. And if they're still misbehaving, perhaps they should see a psychiatrist.

gon weed it

back real world ans alls da sumthangs OOOH
sssssh"

anyway

& how wheel cummin? &
^ well if human race get make it sure gonna cost a lot ^
@ yea daat a fact @

thankyou

 

[jasoncrew03]

I'd like to see the research that is FOR spanking please.

Here ya go.