On Topic Discussion What do you think about bisexuals?

[ScottishBiTeen]

I have been following this thread very closely, as many here know my fella is bisexual. We were friends for over ten years before he asked me for a date.
Initially i refused, for many of the reasons that members who i have great respect for have already posted, i can only speak for myself, but, i am so fucking happy that after MONTHS of thought i decided to "risk" my emotions and follow my instinct.
I can see both sides of this debate, but i do think it unfair that many gay men can be so dismissive of being in an extremely rewarding and loving monogamous partnership with another man just because he identifies as bisexual. Without ever experiencing this themselves.

I can understand totally the feeling of frustration and even some anger that many bi men
experience within the gay "community", for we gay men the choice is quite simple, top, bottom, versatile and attraction to the same sex. Do many here not understand just how difficult life can be as an openly bi man. They are met with "suspicion" from both teams when it boils down to commitment.
Like any successful relationship, one must be prepared to be totally open and honest about ones own fears and hopes. Again i can only speak here about my own personal life, we have been and i have found this has had the effect of bringing us even closer together. There will always be disparity in the gay "community" when this subject is raised, especially on-line.
To be honest i personally find bi-bashing to be as repugnant as homophobia. If one can make the distinction between love and lust then one is free to make the decision to be in a relationship with whomever they choose.
Relationships fail for many, many reasons. Being a cheating bastard is just one, this goes for straight, gay, trans-gender, bisexual and any fucking mix of the above.

Thanks for this.

 

[palbert]

I have been following this thread very closely, as many here know my fella is bisexual. We were friends for over ten years before he asked me for a date.
Initially i refused, for many of the reasons that members who i have great respect for have already posted, i can only speak for myself, but, i am so fucking happy that after MONTHS of thought i decided to "risk" my emotions and follow my instinct.
I can see both sides of this debate, but i do think it unfair that many gay men can be so dismissive of being in an extremely rewarding and loving monogamous partnership with another man just because he identifies as bisexual. Without ever experiencing this themselves.

I can understand totally the feeling of frustration and even some anger that many bi men
experience within the gay "community", for we gay men the choice is quite simple, top, bottom, versatile and attraction to the same sex. Do many here not understand just how difficult life can be as an openly bi man. They are met with "suspicion" from both teams when it boils down to commitment.
Like any successful relationship, one must be prepared to be totally open and honest about ones own fears and hopes. Again i can only speak here about my own personal life, we have been and i have found this has had the effect of bringing us even closer together. There will always be disparity in the gay "community" when this subject is raised, especially on-line.
To be honest i personally find bi-bashing to be as repugnant as homophobia. If one can make the distinction between love and lust then one is free to make the decision to be in a relationship with whomever they choose.
Relationships fail for many, many reasons. Being a cheating bastard is just one, this goes for straight, gay, trans-gender, bisexual and any fucking mix of the above.

Good post. I think this whole discussion is over-exercised and amounts to little more than .

Let people be people and accept them for what they are (in fact). Unless it affects me it is presumptuous of me to judge.

 

[Kulindahr]

... homosexuality is not African....

So biology works differently in Africa? None of the animals have homosexual relationships, either?

If you're right, the world of science needs to know; there's a whole continent there where homosexuality just doesn't exist -- think of the opportunities for genetic comparison!

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

My opinion was based on multiples of his/her posts in that thread I linked to, as well as his/her list of guys liked in his/her signature. Women's taste in men differ greatly than gay men, and his/her wish list is a (young) gay man's fantasy dream team.

With the evidence presented its my opinion the OP is being gender deceptive. I've made no assumptions as to motive for doing it.

That's absolutely insane - why would a woman not like the same straight men as gay/bi men? And how is her liking of - and this is only based on the men I know from that list - actual adult-looking men make her a man, anymore than it makes all the fans of Justin Bieber and Chris Brown(and hell, let's add One Direction and all those other pop groups and "singers" that come from Nickelodeon and abroad) on this site tween girls or women who are willing to put up with ANYthing just to get with him, including lie about being guys so they can post about their fandom with anyone that'll listen?

I wonder if my dislike (or just general like, rather than obsessive obnoxious championing, ball gargling butt sniffing enthusiasm) of so-called superstar celebrities makes me not who I say I am. I'm just going to need more proof than "she used us when she could have used her" and "she likes Ryan Gosling, just like a lot of gay men, ergo she must be a gay man" to convince me she's not a female who has an incredibly lofty - well, absolutely shitty - view on bi men.

 

[Kulindahr]

I also find it weird that another reason that generally pops up is that people are upset at being cheated on with the opposite sex more than if they were with the same sex. When in the end it is still cheating, the gender of the person is completely irrelevant.

Gynophobia.

Also the people who consistently suggest that it doesn't exist and that it is a homosexual not accepting their sexuality always chime in on the subject. I think to believe that sexuality is so black and white is small minded, which given one of the users who consistently posts that opinion only reinforces that belief.

Just for them:

 

[mikemizanin729]

Gosh, can the Bi bashers stop bashing.

I have plent of more diva pics.

 

[palbert]

Gosh, can the Bi bashers stop bashing.

I have plent of more diva pics.

Bring 'em on!

 

[Kulindahr]

For me like I said in my post, it's not a concern that "bi person is more likely to cheat, and it's worse when it's with another gender." It's that for a bi person who might flat out say something like "I am more attracted to women emotionally/sexually", I feel like if we date there's an element of false pretense or wasting our time. I would not want to be involved with someone whose involvement with me was only giving them a portion of what I was getting.

That's one of the best things I've read on this topic. OTOH....

I was at a conference on families once hosted by a Foursquare Gospel church, and one of the speakers began by asking for a show of hands from those who grew up in a family with no problems. Only a few hands went up out of hundreds in attendance. He waited a bit, then said, "Thank you. Now, my topic today is self-delusion...." He got a big laugh, but he'd made his point, which is that none of us grow up in families with no issues, and none of us grow up without issues -- and he went on to make the point that there are no balanced relationships, only relationships where people strive to keep it on course.

Relating that to here, there's really no such thing as a relationship where each person is getting and giving in a balanced way. All of us are flawed, unable to give in some ways, unable to receive in some ways. For most people those are small, even minuscule, but for others they aren't, so inevitably any relationships is going to be one where one or both is "only giving them a portion of what I was getting". The only question is whether the imbalance is sufficient to be disabling.

I think the main problem is that the "bisexuality" label is a huge umbrella that encompasses everything that ranges from "I'm 99% into men, and 1% into women" to "I'm 99% into women, and 1% into men". The people who truthfully lie on either extreme and those that are romantically into one gender versus feel lust for another gender will all be more likely to cheat and break some hearts along the way. I think the sheer nature of bisexuality including such a variety of people causes confusion and skews the statistics to cheating with the opposite sex (not that this should be any worse than a completely straight or gay guy cheating on someone with the same sex, but hey, who am I to say how one should feel). Then you tack on all those people who like to hide under the "bi" label while they "explore" their sexuality, and what you get in the end is complete fuckery.

Any term used too broadly is, I think, going to end up with negative connotations, because it will encompass things someone, indeed many someones, can't tolerate (or at least don't like).

One thing that irritates me immensely is the "hiding under the 'bi' label" accusation, especially when it has to do with exploring one's sexuality. There's a black/white theme there that assumes everyone knows clearly what his or her sexuality is, and also assumes that a person's sexuality can be plotted on a chart with a point that remains in place. Both of those are not just false, but dangerously false! The more we learn about sexuality, the more we see how fluid it is -- and since sexuality is fluid, the admirable standard in xb's post above is essentially impossible to achieve: what is fulfilling in a relationship one month, or season, or whatever, may not be fulfilling in the next month or season.

The accusation irritates me especially because I've known lots of people who only take the "bi" label while exploring their sexuality because everyone else demands they have a label. Human beings are great pigeonholers, slotting people into tidy categories to keep things simple; unfortunately it doesn't work that way, and it doesn't keep things simple, either -- we've seen how many will pounce on someone for having accepted the label of "bi" but then later saying, "I really am gay" for hypocrisy, when the sensible thing to do is to give affirmation in progress in understanding himself. For lots of guys who see themselves as bi, it's especially agonizing because they have no way of telling just how much attraction to females has been socialized/brainwashed in and how much (if any) is real. Jumping on the person who figures out after a long while that he really is gay is not merely foolish -- though it is extremely foolish -- but cruel; the people to be jumped on are those who managed to program the person to be something other than his real self in the first place.

Guys need encouragement and support, not attacks. It's bad enough that every time I see a gal who makes my breath stop and thighs tingle I wonder if it's really me turned on by her, or my programming; I and those like me certainly don't need grandstand coaches slamming on us for whatever bigoted reason they have.

So to those who love to pontificate as though they were a gay version of Westboro Baptist, I have this:

At least until you grow up enough to regard others as people.

 

[Gentleheart]

pulling the bit about cheating to the SIDE (because like many of you say, that is certainly not exclusive to bisexuals)...

the rest:

 

[bankside]

I think this statement is only true about the notion that bi people are inherently more likely to cheat (or screw everything in sight, etc.) which yes, can happen to you in any relationship with anyone. But bisexual male posters in this thread have brought up two scenarios that do not simply exist as "things you face in a relationship with anyone", one being that some bisexual men connect with the two genders differently in different aspects of romantic partnering (and not equally), another being that some bisexual men can't conceive of being happy without having both male and female partners in their romantic lives. Neither situation applies to 100% of all bisexual men, obviously. But these are not prospects one will have to deal with with any romantic partner of any gender/orientation. They came right out of the posts of bi men here in this thread, not out of people who aren't bi sharing stereotypes about bi people.

Those are definitely prospects one will have to deal with with any romantic partner of any gender/orientation.

There are frequent mismatches between gay men and other gay men over whether to share love (and/or/but not) lust. There are frequent mismatches between heterosexual couples over whether to share love (and/or/but not) lust. The sexual orientation of the other partner doesn't matter at all: that individual's orientation towards love vs. lust is what makes the difference.

Same thing with monogamy vs. openness. How many "my boyfriend wants us to sleep with my ex boyfriend but i'm not a guy who is comfortable with that" threads do we have to read over in Coming Out & Relationships before we realize this is a different question than the gender of the other person being brought into the equation. Gay, bi, straight, male, female, all routinely behave this way and routinely encounter these mismatches, and it is a thing potentially faced in a relationship with anyone.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Relating that to here, there's really no such thing as a relationship where each person is getting and giving in a balanced way.

That's true, but it's also kind of a specious comparison. There's a difference between "there's a degree of give and take, complementing each other in different areas" in any relationship, and a relationship with someone who either can't quantify what they want or, they can quantify it and elements of it are things you cannot provide as a partner, or things they are unable to fully engage in with you due to gender leanings. If someone told me they were diagnosed with emotional catatonia I wouldn't date them. If they told me we could date but only as long as we kept it a secret from everyone I wouldn't date them. If they told me they couldn't fall in love with men I wouldn't date them. And if they told me they like sex with men but prefer it with women I wouldn't date them.

I know that bi men come in tons of stripes and mixtures, but those concerns would need to be part of the discussion when it came to someone dating a bi person for more than casual involvement. Because, like I said in an earlier post, a relationship is about a lot more than the theoretical ability to function in bed sexually together without the use of coercion or erection medications. If I asked a bi guy how he leaned or what his history of relationships was like or how satisfied he had been in his experiences with male partners, and received a defensive answer that sounded something like "don't question it, just accept it, I'm tired of how people prejudge me", I would just accept it: I would presume I'm dealing with someone very insecure and very uncertain of what they want and how they operate, and I'd sidestep and avoid them.

The dominant message or talking point out there about the topic (and you can see it on this page and throughout this thread, too) is "Just accept it, don't question it, don't ask about it, why are people so stubborn about this? People who do are being judgmental and closedminded." The problem of people seeming cautious or hesitant to date bi men seriously would not go away if you could simply erase everyone who says something like "bi guys are all secretly gay" or "bi guys are all promiscuous and never satisfied and sleep with everything." I think that bi men who are unhappy with feeling misjudged or misunderstood do their own cause a big disservice by lumping anyone who doesn't wordlessly skirt by this discussion into those categories. Every single JUB discussion I've ever seen about bisexuality, it's this same pattern. The posts become so consistently about broad monolithic non-specific "bi bashing" and a brow beating of people's inability to "accept difference" with such resistance to discussing the ramifications of some of the differences (which would and do impact the prospect of dating bi people) that it comes off feeling like an urgent wish to silence the topic and not a desire to be less misunderstood.

 

[xbuzzerx]

There are frequent mismatches between gay men and other gay men over whether to share love (and/or/but not) lust. There are frequent mismatches between heterosexual couples over whether to share love (and/or/but not) lust. The sexual orientation of the other partner doesn't matter at all: that individual's orientation towards love vs. lust is what makes the difference.

If a partner is unhappy with my "aloofness" in our relationship, I can work that out with him and/or with a therapist.

I am unable to do anything about my maleness, and I would be unable to do anything about not providing something to a partner that he feels he needs from women.

It's not the same thing.

 

[bankside]

If a partner is unhappy with my "aloofness" in our relationship, I can work that out with him and/or with a therapist.

I am unable to do anything about my maleness, and I would be unable to do anything about not providing something to a partner that he feels he needs from women.

It's not the same thing.

My point is you're unable to do anything about the maleness of another guy if your partner found himself drawn to that instead. There's no difference.

 

[otters]

xbuzzerx & bankside, I think we talk at cross-purposes, probably we need a more precise terminological foundation?
Here e.g. (edit: uhm, the focus here is asexuality, but it works regardless of that detail)

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1197648/thumbs/o-ASEXUAL-SPECTRUM-facebook.jpg

 

[xbuzzerx]

My point is you're unable to do anything about the maleness of another guy if your partner found himself drawn to that instead. There's no difference.

I'm surprised at this stretched reasoning, even from you.

I'm not talking about the "risk of cheating." I'm talking about someone telling you straight up at the start of a relationship that there are things they can never get from you. Those things might be as big as "I don't know if I could actually fall in love with a man." You're seriously telling me you don't think there's anything different, at all, between a choice to go forward with someone who says that and a choice to date someone who might one day later fall out of love?

If you don't get that difference, it's just a case of willfully refusing to.

 

[palbert]

Aren't too many of the posters positing that one knows what one's sexual preference will be (and will stay that way). Sexual preference can change (for example, through therapy) and we all know that the 40's can bring on life changes, most notoriously the "7 year itch." I am troubled by the references to cheating when it may be deeper than that.

 

[mikemizanin729]

That's what I think of Bi bashers.

Enjoy.

 

[mikemizanin729]

Nice.one.of Hazel here.

 

[spooky]

I don't know many personally... well that's not quite true.
I have a small circle of friends and while we know each other pretty well... I suspect that one or perhaps two of them might play the wide field.

However, if one of them came out as bisexual then I would wish him or her the best.

If one of the guys from my circle of friends asked me out suddenly and then he told me he was bisexual. I could probably do a one night stand... okay maybe not.
Well... maybe I would because I do find my guy friends hot.

Come to think of it I don't know what I would do.
I wouldn't want to ruin a friendship over cheap, hot sex... or even a failed attempted relationship with one of them.

However, If I was in a relationship with a bisexual man not connected to my friends... yeah I think I'd be a little nervous still.

Why?

Well, he's doubly susceptible to the wiles of men and women.
Imagine walking down the street arm in arm with him and a cute young couple walks by.

He'd be checking out the couple while I'd be checking out the other man.

Still, if he were honest about himself and committed to being with me only, then yeah.
I could probably move past my insecurities and look forward to building a trusting relationship with him.

Although, It would crush me if one day out of the blue after many years of love and trials... he tells him he was wrong about us and that he now wants a family with a woman.

I don't think I could be blamed in never trusting a bisexual man ever again.

Still... life and people are full of surprises.

It would make for a very interesting life story!

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I know that bi men come in tons of stripes and mixtures, but those concerns would need to be part of the discussion when it came to someone dating a bi person for more than casual involvement. Because, like I said in an earlier post, a relationship is about a lot more than the theoretical ability to function in bed sexually together without the use of coercion or erection medications. If I asked a bi guy how he leaned or what his history of relationships was like or how satisfied he had been in his experiences with male partners, and received a defensive answer that sounded something like "don't question it, just accept it, I'm tired of how people prejudge me", I would just accept it: I would presume I'm dealing with someone very insecure and very uncertain of what they want and how they operate, and I'd sidestep and avoid them.

To me this is perfectly fine, but I have trouble believing that a decent amount of people would get to this point of actually trying to get to know someone. I think a lot of people involved in dating go by their judgments before getting to know someone, since it seems like a lot of people are looking for that instant gratification in relationships in order to find the "right" person.

Every single JUB discussion I've ever seen about bisexuality, it's this same pattern. The posts become so consistently about broad monolithic non-specific "bi bashing" and a brow beating of people's inability to "accept difference" with such resistance to discussing the ramifications of some of the differences (which would and do impact the prospect of dating bi people) that it comes off feeling like an urgent wish to silence the topic and not a desire to be less misunderstood.

To be fair about this, I don't think I've seen a lot of times where this kind of thread was delivered without rash judgments from the start or at least with people making judgments early in the thread the steer it in the wrong direction. I don't think a bisexual thread on this board will ever stay on course to be an actual discussion because there are always people like rainbow dick. It would be nice, though.