What is a 'gay man?', an article I'm writing

[Krakenbwool]

I will say this:

Obviously, the stereotypes are at least somewhat true, or else the sports forum wouldn't be so fucking dead around here.

I'm female, but I do watch sports. I post on other boards for that stuff, though.

I will say this, though: I don't understand why more gay men aren't into Ultimate Fighter. I mean, dude, it's legitimizing softcore gay porn to an audience of homophobic rednecks. You could at least get a kick out of the irony.

 

[Passels]

Quote it or it didn't happen.

You haven't said anything about my point that most guys here are exaggerating my description of gay men beyond recognition. I've never called all gay men divas, for example.

I already quoted it. Drop the intellectual laziness for two seconds and go back and fetch it yourself. As for the second part of your statement:

What I am saying is that most if not all gay men have some combination of special (effeminate?) attributes that distinguishes us from straight men. That's what makes each of us unique individuals.

This was already pointed by someone else of course. And you dodged it. I'm starting to think you subscribe to the Big Lie strategy: say something so outrageous and so obviously contrary to the facts enough times that people might actually start believing it.

 

[Lube]

I already quoted it. Drop the intellectual laziness for two seconds and go back and fetch it yourself.

Are you talking about my comment on the "faggy" kids taunted by schoolyard bullies? There's a reason I put it in quotes. I'm quoting the bullies. Not what I would say.

As for the second part of your statement:
This was already pointed by someone else of course. And you dodged it. I'm starting to think you subscribe to the Big Lie strategy: say something so outrageous and so obviously contrary to the facts enough times that people might actually start believing it.

I didn't dodge it; I answered it. Sometimes you can describe the same phenomenon two different ways, both equally valid and internally consistent.


You've mentioned twice now that you had a hard time coming to terms with your sexuality because you felt you "were not like" stereotypical gays. Well, surprise, surprise, I went through the same thing. Except I came away realizing that--while I wasn't like them in some ways--I was indeed like them in others.

I hope you come to the same acceptance some day, rather than remaining in denial.


And that's about it for me, as I see this thread degenerating fast.

 

[Passels]

I think we should just merge the sports/politics forums with this, though. Totally useless places, these days.

To be honest, I didn't even see the sports forum. I already post at a couple of other places, though mostly about hockey. I'd gladly talk NFL if we got more people going in the thread.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I know this is meant to be mean and hateful, but I love both my masculine and feminine side. So this doesn't hurt me at all.

Um... what?

That wasn't about your "feminine side" it was about you wasting the vast majority of your life telling yourself you're not gay because you're an engineer and drive sports cars.

We're different people for sure, but I believe we both have masculine and feminine attributes. Even if you disavow your ON-J 'joke'.

Oh I don't disavow that joke.. it's funny. But you don't actually think I wanted to be Olivia Newton John in high school, do you?

That said... just because a straight guy cries at weddings doesn't make him effeminate. It makes him human.

 

[Passels]

Are you talking about my comment on the "faggy" kids taunted by schoolyard bullies? There's a reason I put it in quotes. I'm quoting the bullies. Not what I would say.

You put nothing in quotes. You also made another spurious generalization: that most kids who are bullied are gay.

I didn't dodge it; I answered it. Sometimes you can describe the same phenomenon two different ways, both equally valid and internally consistent.

That's nonsensical, even for you.

Y
I hope you come to the same acceptance some day, rather than remaining in denial.

I am not in denial about anything, thank you. I accepted myself despite individuals such as yourself who believe I am something that I am not. I'm gay. And despite your delusions, you cannot extrapolate much from that singular statement.

And in all seriousness, could you stay the hell away from anyone who ever mentions struggling with their sexuality? Because I don't think you're capable of doing anything other than projecting your own personality and perspective on to others. And that would be seriously damaging and possibly dangerous for anyone who is already emotionally fraught.

And that's about it for me, as I see this thread degenerating fast.

Bye.

And please, feel free to spout your bigoted bullshit again. I'll be there too.

 

[slnattak]

I don't understand why you guys got offended by that. Why would you get offended if it wasn't true? Wouldn't you calmly discuss it with me instead of insulting me and calling me an idiot, fulfilling the gay male stereotype of letting things get under your skin?

I would have thought Jasun knows better but clearly not.

People just CHILL. I was just starting an interesting discussion, I don't want to start a flame war. And yeah, I think I did go a little over the top but my main point still stands.

And Lube, thanks for supporting me. I like you a lot and you just get it. You are pretty cute too, is that you in the picture?

And I said before you can be gay and like very masculine, 'straight ish' things but the fact remains you will also have a lot of gay male qualities too. Like I've been with this very aggressive black guy before, but he also knew a lot about philosophy and psychology and was smart and educated like gay men are. Of course he had an 'I'm better than you are' complex with me because he was a top and was better at sports (liked basketball), but that didn't stop him from his gay qualities either.

You have to have female two-spirit energy or the gay thing makes no sense and just doesn't work. Sorry! That's just all there is to it. And it's not 'offensive' to be called more of a woman than straight men. You're a man too, just never as purely manly as straight men. *sigh*

 

[slnattak]

Oh and I know this one gay guy irl and we're semi-friends and he says he's 'masculine' in his online profile but he really isn't. He loves glee and shopping and girly pop music and yet he says how macho he is and how he only likes 'real men.' It's sad because, I really like him, but the dude is clearly far from masculine. He's GAY. He has a gay voice, gay mannerisms, etc. It's just not masculine in the str8 way and never will be. He can fake it but it's not natural.

I don't know why guys get so worked up about being GAY. How they can't laugh at themselves and poke fun of themselves with me and instead why they have to get all angry. Oh well. I will keep loving them even if they are gay. =)

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I don't understand why you guys got offended by that. Why would you get offended if it wasn't true? Wouldn't you calmly discuss it with me instead of insulting me and calling me an idiot, fulfilling the gay male stereotype of letting things get under your skin?

Yeah.

Because straight men are always so calm when told they're feminine, aren't they?

I repeat.

You're an idiot.

 

[Passels]

And I said before you can be gay and like very masculine, 'straight ish' things but the fact remains you will also have a lot of gay male qualities too. Like I've been with this very aggressive black guy before, but he also knew a lot about philosophy and psychology and was smart and educated like gay men are. Of course he had an 'I'm better than you are' complex with me because he was a top and was better at sports (liked basketball), but that didn't stop him from his gay qualities either.

You have to have female two-spirit energy or the gay thing makes no sense and just doesn't work. Sorry! That's just all there is to it. And it's not 'offensive' to be called more of a woman than straight men. You're a man too, just never as purely manly as straight men. *sigh*

There is no such thing as 'female two-spirit energy'. And I cannot be 'more of a woman' than a straight man because I'm a fucking male, the same as a straight man is. And the most 'femme-acting' of gay men is no more a woman than I am, or a straight man is for that matter.

I don't why I'm bothering to explain this to someone with such a distorted worldview, but what the hell: you are not going to perpetuate this deterministic crap and get away with it. My only gay quality is being attracted to my own sex. That's it. There's nothing inherently gay about being sensitive, smart, educated, or even just literate. And there's nothing inherently straight about liking sports and being emotionally closed off.

 

[Lube]

I don't know why guys get so worked up about being GAY. How they can't laugh at themselves and poke fun of themselves with me and instead why they have to get all angry. Oh well. I will keep loving them even if they are gay. =)

really. In real life, I have lots of gay friends who mock their own feminine side in a self-deprecating way.

But god forbid a JUBber ever admit that.

Talk about a complete lack of self acceptance.

And in terms of your comment about self-described "masculine" guys--I've had much the same experience on hookup sites and here on JUB. Talk about a lack of self-awareness. Wow.

And yes that's me in my avatar. Even though everyone thinks I'm a nelly queen because of my ideas.

 

[Lube]

I implore you to post in the NFL thread N O W.

Please, spare me from the embarrassment of having a thread with no replies.

I love hockey too. The NHL makes me *moist*.

*facepalm*

Yeah masc straight guys talk about getting moist.

Look in the mirror, people.

 

[fetaby]

Give me a break. Read your post again and tell me you didn't think it would upset the majority of people here.

P.S. FEMALE TWO-SPIRIT ENERGY POWERS ACTIVATE!
__________________

 

[fetaby]

*facepalm*

Yeah masc straight guys talk about getting moist.

Look in the mirror, people.

Straight men don't precum?

 

[Lube]

Um... what?

That wasn't about your "feminine side" it was about you wasting the vast majority of your life telling yourself you're not gay because you're an engineer and drive sports cars.

I stopped, though. You're continuing to think you don't have an effeminate side because you ride motorcycles. I moved on; you're still deluding yourself. Not sure what you're bragging about.

In any case I'm trying to get guys to accept themselves as they are, and yet you're ridiculing me for a mistake I made (and owned up to). Classy guy you are.

Oh I don't disavow that joke.. it's funny. But you don't actually think I wanted to be Olivia Newton John in high school, do you?

That said... just because a straight guy cries at weddings doesn't make him effeminate. It makes him human.

Why is the joke funny? That's a rhetorical question.

 

[Lube]

Straight men don't precum?

Saying you're "moist" is very funny if said by a gay guy in a self-mocking way.

Saying you're moist is a face palm if you think it's masculine in any way. Straight guys talk about "getting hard" "getting wood" "shooting loads".

If you think your straight friends are talking about getting moist, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

 

[Passels]

I stopped, though. You're continuing to think you don't have an effeminate side because you ride motorcycles. I moved on; you're still deluding yourself. Not sure what you're bragging about.

In any case I'm trying to get guys to accept themselves as they are, and yet you're ridiculing me for a mistake I made (and owned up to). Classy guy you are.

I thought you were leaving.

And for the five millionth time: you don't fucking know us. You have no evidence, no authority to make the assumptions you're making.

I think I'd have more luck reaching one of the Phelps clan than puncturing your deluded sense of things.

 

[Passels]

If you think your straight friends are talking about getting moist, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

How the fuck would you know what a straight man is like? If your starting premise is that every man who isn't a sociopath is gay, then you've probably never come into contact with what you believe is a straight man.

And why on fucking earth do you have to ascribe 'masculine' or 'feminine' to every little fucking word? And you have the gall to state that you're not an absolutist, when every single fucking statement you make contradicts that assertion.

EDIT: Astonishing that someone would troll for years on end and accumulate thousands of posts, but there it fucking is with you. I'm hoping that's it, because otherwise you have genuine psychological problems.

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

I stopped, though. You're continuing to think you don't have an effeminate side because you ride motorcycles.

Um... where did I say anything remotely like that?

(I'll save you time. I didn't. Snap out of it.)

 

[Yves]

You're a man too, just never as purely manly as straight men. *sigh*

(emphasis added)

Why this obsession on what a "pure man" is? Your "pure/impure" dichotomy seems to be one of the key elements of your "traditional" (i.e. uninformed) discourse on identity and gender roles in western societies. This line of thinking has been used by a wide range of movements from nazism to KKK to classify individuals based on subjective definitions of what a "pure" X is. Men and women have been killed or jailed based on this "pure man" argument

Have you seen the recent news from Uganda? Your line of thinking is very similar to one of the arguments used there to justify homophobic policies based on unsupported assumptions of what a "normal" man is: Normal is 100% "purely manly" and abnormal/sick/ is feminine.... Time to do some real research and avoid unsupported theories.