Which Club Is Going To Win The Premiership This Season?

[Jeimuzu]

Wary to wade into the "hated" team argument, but what the hell...

Maybe I come from a different perspective as someone who has only this season watched the premiership, started out non-biased of every team save Reading, and also little influenced by the UK punidts or press.

Given that, I see a big difference between Man United and Chelsea. Basically, I really respect Manchester United, and loathe Chelsea. Here's why:

United coach - calm, respectful, humble
Chelsea coach - whining, disrespectful, full of himself "the special one" (some of my opinion has to do with the Petr Cech situation at Reading, but really the guy is an self-absorbed asshole)

United players - focused, pretty clean, just play the game
Chelsea players - whiners and divers with a belief they are entitled to any referee decision (except for Drogba)

United team - a team
Chelsea team - a bunch of individuals

Now you can argue any of these points, and you guys in the UK have a lot more awareness of the teams and their histories, but it's how I see it.

Ferguson is not calm, respectful, or humble. He's more humble than Mourinho, but certain incidents have proven he's not at all calm. I agree that Mourinho is very full of himself, though.

Chelsea combined don't dive as much as Ronaldo. Sorry, but it's true. And Man Utd are known for ganging up around the ref when they disagree with a decision. They haven't been as bad this season, but the amount of referees they've scared into making a decision in their favour... crazy.

The only reason United are a team is because their big buys have lately had chance to gel into the team. Anyway, it's a typical percept of Chelsea as a bunch of individuals, but actually their star players certainly don't come across as mercenaries. (Lampard, Terry, etc)

Hate to say it, but each are as bad as the other. All teams have their flaws, I guess it's just easier to find them in the big teams. And egos are always gonna come up when you're scoring goals and doing well.

 

[greaves]

Sam: when I say "real fans" I mean those who support their local team. I'm a north London boy; I support Spurs.

Most of the "fans" who support ManUtd were not born in Manchester, have not even been to Manchester, and have no connection with Manchester. They are just associating themselves with a successful brand-name.

This is even more true of the sudden emergence of Chelsea "fans" over the last few years. For the last 80 years Chelsea have be a joke team; a comedian's standby. Now everyone in west London, where I live and work, is a born-again Chelsea supporter.

It's the "I'm a Chelsea/ManUtd supporter, therefore I'm a sexy/clever/respected dude" syndrome.

And it is totally, totally sad.

 

[olides74]

Ferguson is not calm, respectful, or humble. He's more humble than Mourinho, but certain incidents have proven he's not at all calm. I agree that Mourinho is very full of himself, though.

Chelsea combined don't dive as much as Ronaldo. Sorry, but it's true. And Man Utd are known for ganging up around the ref when they disagree with a decision. They haven't been as bad this season, but the amount of referees they've scared into making a decision in their favour... crazy.

The only reason United are a team is because their big buys have lately had chance to gel into the team. Anyway, it's a typical percept of Chelsea as a bunch of individuals, but actually their star players certainly don't come across as mercenaries. (Lampard, Terry, etc)

Hate to say it, but each are as bad as the other. All teams have their flaws, I guess it's just easier to find them in the big teams. And egos are always gonna come up when you're scoring goals and doing well.

Like I said, all I can comment on is what I've seen this year. Gross generalizations I know, and Ferguson has been around so long I'm sure he's annoyed many times, but just comparing him to Mourinho this year it seems like a night and day difference. And the Chelsea crowding around refs is much more blatant - especially Lampard and to a lesser extent, Terry, the two "non-mercenaries" as you call them.

And I don't buy the Ronaldo stuff. The World Cup dust-up seemed to create this UK national hatred of the guy. And yeah, he's a bit of a prima dona and dives. But even if you look across this whole season, his diving has dropped considerably. No worse than other culprits as Sam argues. He so good that he certainly doesn't need to cheat; maybe he is starting to unlearn the diving that was ingrained in him in Portugal. And I do know that in 4 games this year against Reading there's nobody better I've seen play and I respect that.

 

[Sam_UK]

It's the "I'm a Chelsea/ManUtd supporter, therefore I'm a sexy/clever/respected dude" syndrome.

And it is totally, totally sad.

pmsl, this just gets funnier by the minute, im not even going to argue that statement because it is just too ridiculous. I just dont understand how u have come to that conclusion.

and u have no idea about my past, where i used 2 live, whether i have connections to Manchester, the number of times i have been to Manchester. U just assumed that i support Man Utd just because they are doing well, this season anyway.

So by your conditions u being a "real fan" u would know that Utd have not done so well in the past few season, albeit still remaining in the top 4, but by their standards not good enough.

not that i need to explain the reasons as to why i support Man Utd, but i will just say that i have been supporting them since 1995, thats 12years. so its not just a matter of coz they win all the time, its been over a period of time where they have had their good and bad patches.

if i wasnt a "real fan" i would have just stopped supporting them an decided to support Arsenal when they had their period of glory, or lately supporting Chelsea just coz they have bought success, but that would just be fickle.

Even though i argue your point, i do understand where you are coming from, an the fact that many Utd fans do just support them because they used to win all the time, but all your doing is stereotyping the "real" Utd fans with the others, which in my book is considered ignorant.

I bet my status as a "real fan" would not be questioned if i said i supported Man City, coz id be supporting a team that isnt doin very well and u wouldnt be too bothered about that.

And actually, i have come across many many football fans who support Liverpool, and have never had any connections to the city, yet no-one ever makes a big deal about them.

Oh ive just realised something, by your conditions for being a "real fan" would u say that Oldies would not be considered a "real" Reading supporter on the basis that hes from the US, i am assuming here so correct me if im wrong Oldies, never been to Reading, never been to a Reading game, never lived in or near Reading, and basically has no connections to Reading?

wot i consider a supporter to be is someone who follows a chosen team for whatever reason, supports them whether they win or lose, but most importantly is a respectful supporter whether they win or lose, and if they do lose, lose graciously.

The way i see it is, its human nature to try and blame someone else for something and pass the buck rather than looking at yourself. An its exactly what happened at World Cup 98 with beckham, ofcourse it was all totally down to one player getting sent off that England lost the world cup (hint of sarcasm if it wasnt obvious), and last year at World Cup 06 Rooney himself deserved a red card for his foul and reactions, but the fans and media didnt see that and found a scape goat in Ronaldo to blame.

And its exactly what, in my book, ignorant fans do when they are not happy with a result, they find a person or a way of passing the blame rather than looking at their own performance and analyzing the real reason why they lost, which in most cases would be because they didnt play good enough.

 

[greaves]

Sam: I'm not questioning your integrity as a ManUtd fan.

My comments highlighted 2 incidents from the 2 matches in the FACup quarter-final replays.

Ronaldo dived and got a penalty, which meant 'Boro lost.

Carvalho should have got a red card for his cynical foul on Berbatov, so reducing Chelsea to 10 men v Spurs. He didn't even get a yellow card. Chelsea won.

These are the sort of decisions which infuriate "real" fans.

Think about it: do the FA want a Blackburn v Watford FACup Final at the new Wembley Stadium? Or do they want a Chelsea v ManUtd Final?

Money talks...

 

[Sam_UK]

but thats the whole point, he didnt dive, and you just dont want to see it.

so ur now sayin that the FA is match-fixing lol this just gets better an better, so that would mean that the FA have the referees in their pockets and were told to make those sorts of decisions. Somehow i just dont buy it lol interesting though lol

 

[greaves]

but thats the whole point, he didnt dive, and you just dont want to see it.

so ur now sayin that the FA is match-fixing lol this just gets better an better, so that would mean that the FA have the referees in their pockets and were told to make those sorts of decisions. Somehow i just dont buy it lol interesting though lol

Go back to page 2 of this thread to read my views about the lack of modern technology in football.

Go to any Premiership club site and read the complaints about referees.

AF is one of the main moaners, even tho' referees allow CR to train for the Portuguese Olympic diving team whilst playing for ManUtd.

Look at the video of WHam's second "goal" v Blackburn last week-end.

Ask why Carvalho was not red-carded in the Spurs-Chelsea FACup game.

Football is the ONLY major world sport that refuses to use technology in it's decision-making.

 

[olides74]

Go back to page 2 of this thread to read my views about the lack of modern technology in football.

Go to any Premiership club site and read the complaints about referees.

AF is one of the main moaners, even tho' referees allow CR to train for the Portuguese Olympic diving team whilst playing for ManUtd.

Look at the video of WHam's second "goal" v Blackburn last week-end.

Ask why Carvalho was not red-carded in the Spurs-Chelsea FACup game.

Football is the ONLY major world sport that refuses to use technology in it's decision-making.

I'm not sure about other UK sports like rugby and cricket, but here, technology is NEVER used for decision-making that is determined by referee's qualitative judgment. It's most used in American football, looking at things like forward progress, whether a ball was fumbled, if a player went out of bounds, etc. A clear yes or no answer. They do not use technology for judgemental calls like holding, tripping, offsides, etc. In ice hockey, it's used for goal line questions only. In basketball, only for clock questions (did the shot get off before the buzzer). In baseball, no technology at all. In tennis, lines only I think.

Technology would have stopped the west ham goal, but if it was attempted to be used for decisions like tripping vs. diving or whether a foul was cynical enough to warrant a red card, we might as well take the ball and go home.

 

[greaves]

Olides: you mention "qualitative" decisions. My point is that NO technology is used in football.

One person, the referee, with whistle and watch, is the sole arbiter of ALL decisions made during the game. This has been the case for about 140 years.

Electronic time-keeping has been available for about 40 years. It is used in Rugby Union, Rugby League, swimming, athletics, show-jumping, horse-racing etc etc. Who is the sole time-keeper in a football match? The referee with a watch.

Television replay technology has been available for 40 years - and is used widely in all major sports - but is not used at all in football matches.

The "third" umpire/referee, who can use use video evidence, is used in a wide range of world sports. But not in football.

So long as one person - the referee - is the sole arbiter of all decisions in football, there will always be controversy. And, as we have seen with the Serie A scandal, there will always be the real possibility of corruption.

 

[olides74]

I understand what you're saying Greaves - technology is not used in soccer/football at all. And I agree that it should be, for goal line decisions like West Ham at least. But it seemed to me that you related the use of technology to help with the Ronaldo and Carvalho incidents. But no sport that I know of uses technology to reverse referee decisions like whether it was a dive or trip, or the "level" of a foul - i.e., yellow card or red card.

 

[greaves]

Liverpool v Arsenal next Sat. 31/03/07. Should be a cracker.

Mark Hughes takes his Blackburn side to ManUtd. Many see Hughes as the next manager at Old Trafford once AF decides to give up chewing gum. Could be...

Then on April Fools Day we have Spurs v Reading. Both clubs seeking a place in Europe next season, so much to play for. One thing's for sure, it will not be a boring, dull, lack-lustre, insipid, negative 0-0 draw...

...which the Israel v England game was last night.

 

[greaves]

The FA announced today the FACup Final WILL be played at the new Wembley Stadium on 19th May.

The stadium is terrific. Not quite so sure about the pitch. It did not look good in shape during the England v Italy under 21 game last w/end... we shall see.

Tomorrow evening: Andorra v England, at the Espanyol stadium in Barcelona, which has a capacity of 54,000. If England do not win comfortably, it could mean the end of McClaren's reign as England manager.

He made his first - and major - mistake before an international Euro-ball was kicked, by choosing Terry instead of Gerard as the English captain.

Portugal beat Belgium 4-0 last Sunday.

 

[greaves]

Irony indeed.

The player who saves McClaren his job as England manager, by scoring twice in a feeble performance by England v Andorra last nite, is Stevie Gerard - the player McClaren should have chosen as the England captain.

The man who should have been given the England manager's job - Sam Allardyce -is not liked by the English FA. I wonder why...

 

[Jeimuzu]

Irony indeed.

The player who saves McClaren his job as England manager, by scoring twice in a feeble performance by England v Andorra last nite, is Stevie Gerard - the player McClaren should have chosen as the England captain.

The man who should have been given the England manager's job - Sam Allardyce -is not liked by the English FA. I wonder why...

He's the dullest man in sport?
When the two managers went head to head in the carling cup final, McClaren won?
McClaren knew the players?
McClaren got Boro to the final of the UEFA cup?

The man had massive success at Boro. D'you know just how truly awfully he started here? I think it was five losses! Give the man time.

I agree that perhaps Gerrard should've been captain, but last season I'd have said Boateng should captain Boro. Now he is, he's lost form, which I fear is something to do with the added responsibility.

 

[greaves]

England's next Euro 2008 qualifying game is v Estonia 06/06/07. So the England manager has time on his side...

 

[Sam_UK]

YEAAAAAAAAAAA we won had me going in the 1st half though lol 1-0 down to come back 4-1 in the 2nd half, now if that doesnt show the determination of a championship winning team then i dont know what is hehe Credit to Mark Hughes though, Blackburn did play well in the 1st half, but i think the score line reflected Utd's dominance in the 2nd.

Chelsea ONLY JUST beat Watord in the 93rd minute. if they had drew that game, then the gap would have been 8pts, realistically it could have all been over given the mental advantage to Utd, but Chelsea have still got themselves in it, and it is far from over yet.

Charlton beat Wigan 1-0 with a late penalty from Darren Bent. West Ham beat Boro 2-0 and as Bolton beat Sheffield Utd 1-0 its still all open at the bottom. Going to be a nervous few weeks ahead me thinks.

And omg the Spurs/Reading game, woah the amount of chances Spurs had, they should have won that hands down and very comfortably at that, and 2 dissallowed goals aswell, although defoe's was deffinately a goal and should have stood i think. but the 3pts is all that matters so all good i guess for spurs. Taking nothing away from Reading in the slightest, i think they played really well.

 

[greaves]

ManU sweep Blackburn away 4-1. Chelsea struggle to beat already relegated Watford 0-1. I think that says it all. Only eight Premiership games left for both sides, and ManU have an easier set of fixtures in those games...

Next Saturday: Chelsea v Spurs. Berbatov with a hat-trick, along with a Terry own-goal, give Spurs a convincing win. All this after Lampard is shown a red card for "over celebrating" when Chelsea win a a dubious corner.

The game is refereed, a first in Premiership history, by a female official: April Furst.

Well, you can dream can't you...

Hope Villa beat Everton tonite...

 

[Sam_UK]

Next Saturday: Chelsea v Spurs. Berbatov with a hat-trick, along with a Terry own-goal, give Spurs a convincing win. All this after Lampard is shown a red card for "over celebrating" when Chelsea win a a dubious corner.

The game is refereed, a first in Premiership history, by a female official: April Furst.

Well, you can dream can't you...

I like that dream

oh, and Man Utd and Chelsea both have 7 games left, not 8, although im sure u were just testing us all

And the Everton and Villa game just ended 1-1.

 

[Jeimuzu]

Boro need to thrash Watford when they come to Teesside, so we can get a bit of confidence back. Let's just say my dad's a doom-and-gloom football fan. When it goes well, he's happy enough, but when it goes wrong, he says we're going down.

C'mon, everyone loses to weak teams sometimes. West Ham beat Man Utd earlier this season. Wasn't a convincing win, but it was a win nonetheless. If they can do it to them, they can do it to us.

I really hope Boro will buy another striker during the summer, though. When Yakubu and Viduka aren't scoring... well, Lee has hardly proven his calibre thus far. I want us to renew our interest in Nugent, personally. Anyways, Vid's 31 and either way, probably won't stick around too long. And Euell is just pointless. We play him as a midfielder when we play him at all...

To be honest, Middlesbrough have one huge problem at the moment. In some areas, we lack so much strength in depth. In defence, we're currently okay in the centre, for example - Woodgate, Huth, Pogatetz, Riggott, etc. However, the full backs... well, if Taylor hadn't really claimed the role, we'd be screwed there - that was a get-out-of-jail free card if I ever saw one. Both our typical left backs play elsewhere, and are vital where they are. As for right back, Davies who gets the ball well, but has no idea what to do after that, Parnaby who runs his arse off, but doesn't really achieve much, and Xavier who is a middle-aged drug-addled tanned-Santa-Claus lookalike, and yet still the best we have.

Our midfield consists of a creative midfielder, a holding player, and two wingers. Left wing is sorted - Downing and Johnson. Right wing... well, Morrison is excellent, but we keep playing cattermole, who acts more like a wing-back. We could do with more there, since Cattermole should be Boateng's backup in the holding role. In the creative role, we have Arca - an absolute gem of a player. Ideal. However, Rochemback doesn't give a damn about the club, and Euell isn't any good at the role. So, again, no depth.

In goal... Schwarzer. He's a real top player, totally unshakable, and our longest serving player now. But backup... Jones. He never plays all that well. He's not rubbish, but he's not premiership quality. He should be in the Championship or League One, really. We need backup there, have ever since Crossley went really. What a keeper Crossley was. Such an underrated guy.

Finally, up front. Yakubu and Viduka. Everyone wants Viduka, and Yakubu is in the top scorers list. So, the first team players are excellent. Our replacements... Well, Lee Dong-Gook, and Jason Euell, neither of whom have scored for the club yet, despite having good chances. Admittedly, Lee has looked more like scoring, hitting the post etc, but his slow lazy style of football doesn't really suit us - and Euell is like a little kid. Enthusiastic as all hell, but never gets anything done.

Southgate had better get a big transfer kitty in the summer. He has some holes to fill.

 

[greaves]

Sam: You're quite right. 7 Premiership games to go for everyone in the Premiership, (except Arsenal and ManCity). My mistake.

There's a wonderful football fiesta coming up this April, as the Premiership, the FACup, the Champions League and the UEFA Cup all come to a climax.

Just over the next 10 days, my team, Spurs, play Sevilla in Andalucia, then Chelsea in Westi Londonski, then Sevilla again at WHL.

Sweat dreams are made of this...