Why do straights hate gays? by Larry Kramer

[Nonimus]

I myself and am struggling with the aspect of coming out because i've got a panic disorder that makes me cringe at the very thought of it.

It's like getting a vaccination, the anticipation is worse than the event and you feel much better for it.

 

[Soilwork]

there are exceptions to every rule.

Problem is that for MANY, they're just pretending that they have a good reason (the stupidest I've ever heard was "I like older men and how's my Dad supposed to feel if he knows I like men his age?").. but they usually dont.

Tell me... this panic disorder you've got.. are you just using that as a reason or are you maybe doing something about it? I mean, coming out or not, having a panic disorder is something that should be addressed.

 

[Pushover]

It's like getting a vaccination, the anticipation is worse than the event and you feel much better for it.

Right. I am sure afterwards i'll feel much better about myself but before and during i'll be nothing but a bundle of nerves and coldsweets.

I'd love to just come out and be free, but I am sure anyone who has a panic disorder or knows somebody that does have one knows that it's not that easy to do anything.

 

[Pushover]

Tell me... this panic disorder you've got.. are you just using that as a reason or are you maybe doing something about it? I mean, coming out or not, having a panic disorder is something that should be addressed.

I try not to blame anything on my disorder, but some problems are really caused by it. Every time I go into crowded, public areas, I have to fight to keep from panicing and fight to keep down a feeling of paranoia. Every time I make a commitment, I have to fight to keep it because something inside me is telling me to run away and forget about it. Coming out is a commitment, but i've stuck to it for the past few days, and hope I can continue.

Not sure what you mean by 'doing something about it' but I am taking medications that keep me from blatantly running away from everything. Eventually i'll be able to live a 'normal' life, but it will be a struggle every step of the way. It's about comfort zones and learning to be comfortable outside that zone.

Even people with mild panic disorders can have trouble doing even the most mundane things. It's not about just facing your fears, it's about struggling to face your fears when something inside you is seriously telling you to run.

 

[arteguy]

I think Larry Kramer had a valid point raising the issue. I mean why do they hate us ? That one I really don't get. Indifference is understandable, but I don't understand all the money, time, and resources. Still, I also think PFLAG needed to speak up. These are examples of our families and friends who do except us and try to learn. There is all this trauma about coming out on this board, and the topic changed very fast. My family in Texas is all deeply S.Baptist, my father was a football coach, I did not know of a single gay person till I was 18. I moved away, made new friends and came out. How was my family going to deal with it? It was outside their realm except for what they heard at church. Without exception they were all fine. My uncle who is a deacon told his church that they shouldn't attack gay people because God loves everyone, and people need to look at their own sins. My Mom & Sis said they were glad I was back in their lives because I had hid so much. I know I am extremely lucky, and thank them from time to time because it took some work for them too. I did not expect that and it had been a constant source of stress for most of my life.Then poof it was gone. Now there are some more straight people in Texas who dont hate and teach others. Alot of my friends have had bad experiences, but those families don't seem very healthy, and were going to judge their child anyway.
But not "everyone" is going to hate you. Most people care much more about their own lives than yours.

 

[Pushover]

Why do they hate us? That's easy; I can answer that in a simple sentence.

Homosexuals bring disorder and chaos to the comparatively ordered world of heterosexuals.

People think too much along the lines of black and white; but there are thousands of shades of gray. Homosexuality is in that gray area where most people don't think to look. Well, that's my opinion.




should have posted this a while ago

 

[Soilwork]

My Opinion is that straight people hate us because they've been told to. And until they get to know us, they wil continue to do that.


(which is why I still... even after ALL of this... think that closeted gay men are losers. Any Questions?)

 

[Pushover]

My Opinion is that straight people hate us because they've been told to. And until they get to know us, they wil continue to do that.


(which is why I still... even after ALL of this... think that closeted gay men are losers. Any Questions?)

That's a very generalized and broad statement, but a get where you're coming from, so lets not go down that road again.

I agree that at least part of the reason why we are hated is because of what people are being taught by their religion and community. But I am noticing an increase in tolerance and acceptance by the newer/younger generations.

 

[arteguy]

I agree, I think we all just grow up learning it. Plus so many people are so freaked about sex period. Misogyny is also tied to it, because alot of the same words to describe us are used to describe women. In the US religion is a big reason. I think they feel they can preach against us because we aren't in their church, and if we are ,we're gonna keep our mouth shut. And at judgement day they can say "Lord, at least I hated the gays for you."
We are everywhere. Alot of hets don't really know any gay people, because the ones around them are in the closet, so they just believe what they here.
The thing is, we should still have equal rights. And that won't happen until we come out and demand them, or at least vote. How did some of these countries that don't proclaim to be liberators of democracy do it?

 

[Soilwork]

But I am noticing an increase in tolerance and acceptance by the newer/younger generations.

(because gay kids are coming out younger and they're seeing their gay friends as people... why not maybe help that along?)

 

[Pushover]

.....


*Exiting another thread before it becomes a flame war*

 

[Soilwork]

meh... we all know where we stand.

 

[CuriousMonkey]

The L.A. Times ran a piece in July 2006 that talks about why people aren't threatened by global warming ... but it also applies to the percieved threat of homosexuality and may explain a lot about the hostility out there. Check out "if only gay sex caused global warming" for a psychological perspective. In a nutshell, he cites four factors that constitute a threatening situation:

A Human Element - we devote a lot of thought and attention to the things that other people are planning and doing. Intentional actions get a lot more of our attention than natural accidents, perhaps because we feel like there's something we can do about the former and little to be done about the latter.

Moral Sensibilities - when people are confronted with something that requires them to entertain thoughts they find "indecent, impious or repulsive" they react ... and mores about sex are abundant.

Immediacy - we're great at getting out of the way of something that's about to smack us in the head, and not so adept at (or concerned about) the even bigger threats that might not affect us for years.

Precipitous Change - its like Al Gore's boiling frog who quickly jumps out of the boiling water he happens upon, but is comfortably in a beaker of room temperature water that is gradually brought to boiling. We notice the changes that are NOT gradual.

I think activism (in general) could be more effective if we better understand why our lives, existence, freedom or whatever might be percieved as a threat. Confrontation is probably not the best way to correct this misperception of threat. More on this at my blog: self-evident-truths

 

[drhladnjak]

So much of it is connected to knowing openly gay people and having openly gay family members. Survey after survey finds that on topics such as gay marriage, workplace protections for sexuality and gays in the military, people who know gays and lesbians are much more likely to support equality.

 

[Hard Luck]

But there simply aren't enough gay people for everyone to have a friend or family member who's homosexual. And there certainly are less gay people in areas where more conversion of attitudes is needed.

I could meet 50 more straight people tomorrow ... but chances of them being the 50 remaning homophobes in West Los Angeles are slim.





So how do we countermand the perception of threat among peoples who are unlikely to personally know any homosexuals? And if a threat perception is based on individual fears of one's own psyche and sexuality, what hope is there?

 

[Soilwork]

I disagree 100%.

There's no way that there are people out there who don't have a gay friend.. even if they dont' know about it.

I'll never believe that.

 

[Hard Luck]

Well, I suppose if we use the randomly popular figure of 10%, it's possible that everyone on earth knows someone who is gay. It certainly would help clarify things if everyone were out in the open!

Living in L.A., it just seems that most gay people migrate from the hinterlands to the coasts and big cities ... leaving vast sections of conservative-dominated areas practically devoid of homosexuals, especially those who are openly gay.

I'm sure my impression is an exaggeration of the truth, and thus concede that most people must know someone who is gay. So, in this I'll agree with Soilwork: it certainly would help The Cause if more people would come out. (Oh, except the assholes .... they should stay in the closet, lest they give gays a bad name, heheh.)





Of course, if Kramer is right and more visibility just leads to more hate, then all those closeted people are doing us a great favor.

 

[arteguy]

I didn't think I knew any gay people, then later found out I knew a few. Confrontation does seem more like entertainment now. I think it's going to take good pr, because people like to be sold to, and time, because younger people don't seem as concerned. They aren't voting though, so until then we need to stop the crappy laws.

 

[Chalchalero]

I admit in my previous participation in this thread I digressed into a different discussion than one which Krammer was actualling asking, so I'll try to get more back on topic with this post.

I don't think Krammer anywhere has ever given a reason for "why" straights hate gays. I don't think Krammer was even reallly asking "why do straights hate gays?" as much as stating the question as an assertion: "Straights hate gays!" Seldom is the intent of his editorials ever to offer an explanation as to make an assertion.

The intent and content of this, like most of his commentaries, seems much more of a rhetorical nature asking: "Why are you straight people out their who give lip service to supporting gays not more vociferous in your condemnation of anti-gay remarks, such as that of General Pace, and why do you other gay activists not call them on it more when they are only give lip service?"

PFLAG in the editorial Mattie posted had a valid point that there are straight people who are out-spoken and frequently, but I think Krammer is asking, why aren't there more straights like the membes of PFLAG who make a greater outcry?

Why do members of Congress and almost every other organization, for example, always and on all levels always wheigh in when someone makes a tactless and racist remark, while frequently or almost always allowing the waffaling that Barack and Hilary engaged in go by almost without comment by the same straight individuals or non-gay civil rights organizations?

I think Krammer's over simplified answer to that rhetorical question is always "because they hate us either in the open or under their breaths and just give lip sevice" when it's of a pandering nature to gain our votes. But he never really addresses, at least not in this commentary, which is basically just a condenced version of what he said in his last book The Tragedy of American Gays, the "why." He simply asserts their reasons for not speaking up is always because of an unqualified and without explanation, all encompassing "they hate us!"

Candidly, for a long time I've seen Larry Krammer as being in a constant state of "acting out" to vent his frustrations and anger rather than "Acting Up" and really contributing very little any more to the social discourse other than his outbursts of anger and his own bitterness and feelings of personal betrayal by people he thought were his allies.

I had a lot of respect for him in the past, and still do with regard to his non-fiction works, but when it comes to his more recent commentaries and outburts that respect has begun to decrease on my part over the years.

I know you and I have had our disagreements and that you are extremely sensitive. But I must take exception to your categorisation of Mr. KRAMER (ONE M!).

He is not some psycho-crazed radical doing nothing but hollering and screeching. I will admit that he does not have the influence that he once had, but that is by his choice. He is the one who walked away from the organisations he founded. HE is the one who decided that the gay community had become too self involved to understand where he was coming from.

I do not want to get involved with another discussion with you because I suspect (from experience) that your sensibilities will become offended. I will simply ask that you actually study the work that MR. KRAMER has done before you judge him. One letter that he has written after over 40 years of work on YOUR behalf is really not fair. Give him a chance. You are so sensitive that everyone understand where you are coming from. Why don't you find out where he is coming from before you judge him?

I'm just saying, that's all....

 

[Chalchalero]

I know you and I have had our disagreements and that you are extremely sensitive. But I must take exception to your categorisation of Mr. KRAMER (ONE M!).

He is not some psycho-crazed radical doing nothing but hollering and screeching. I will admit that he does not have the influence that he once had, but that is by his choice. He is the one who walked away from the organisations he founded. HE is the one who decided that the gay community had become too self involved to understand where he was coming from.

I do not want to get involved with another discussion with you because I suspect (from experience) that your sensibilities will become offended. I will simply ask that you actually study the work that MR. KRAMER has done before you judge him. To judge negatively one letter that he has written after over 40 years of work that he has achieved on YOUR behalf is really not fair. Give him a chance. You are so sensitive that everyone understand where you are coming from. Why don't you find out where he is coming from before you judge him?

I'm just saying, that's all....

That is what I really wanted to say. I was just so overwhelmed with emotion over that last post that I wrote too slowly for my brain.