why don't all blacks support gays?

[fabulouslyghetto]

The problem is that people like you don't utter a word, until someone prompts you with a Hot Topic to speak.

are you gunning for the world record in being wrong? i brought this very topic up last week.

So if I'm wrong, instead of telling me "how wrong I am" educate the rest of us on what it's like, Marley. We're all ears.

Just start talking ....

I did, people didn't take too kindly to it. Like this topic, the overall message was derailed in a battle of semantics over the words "all" and "some."

 

[MystikWizard]

are you gunning for the world record in being wrong? i brought this very topic up last week.



I did, people didn't take too kindly to it. Like this topic, the overall message was derailed in a battle of semantics over the words "all" and "some."

Fine. You want to play your little games on here and label people with how "Wrong" they are ... yet I ask you and give you an opportunity to speak to "educate me" ... only for you to come back with a shit response like that, then so be it.

Do me a favor, don't waste my time and interact with me. Don't quote me or anything. Just put me on Ignore, and I'll do the same.

 

[CupCake]

Ive only read a few posts since this was originally posted, but ..... interesting.

I don't know about others, but I've never felt embraced by the gay community and I've never felt any kind of connection to them. If i see an injustice, it's wrong no matter who it is against. However, I feel no affinity to gays. I'll march for minority rights, rights for the poor and women's rights before I march for gay rights.

I feel really bad... IDK why but this post just hit me with sadness because I kind of felt that disconnect also but the other way around from you.... I felt the disconnect because growing up where I live the straight Christian black kids when I was in High school made fun of gays did not support them and made it seem that if you were gay then you were a disgrace to the black community... Therefor I felt more embraced by gays... I have lots of gay friends of all races and they understand me so I connect with the gay community a little more... That does not mean I will not be quick to snatch someone up who are racist against blacks.... I still love both parts of me equally.... I just wish we could both make that connect lucky....

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Gays are often more racist(outright and subtlely) than their straight counterparts. They're not that accepting with open arms to minority groups as far as I've seen and I as a whole, I havent really seen them come out in support of women's issues, issues of low-income groups, or minority issues.

Often times I've seen them denounce those issues as unimportant and even annoying. The prevailing attitude is "You had your turn, give us the spotlight bitch!"

 

[Apollo]

If I grew up in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

I agree with the poster who said the black community has an important bond, some kind of togetherness. Yes, we have problems but we do support each other.
People I don't know have wished me good luck and felt proud of me b/c of the academic success i've had just b/c we're both black or because of the community I came from(lower-income background).

HOWEVER, this is not something unique to the black community. There's a sense of togetherness for many ethnic groups... latinos, chinese, Irish, Italians.. as an oppressed group I would think gays would have more of an understanding and support for others. They don't really seem to though. Gays are often more racist(outright and subtlely) than their straight counterparts. They're not that accepting with open arms to minority groups as far as I've seen and I as a whole, I havent really seen them come out in support of women's issues, issues of low-income groups, or minority issues.

This is what I find all the time from both of your paragraphs.

 

[MystikWizard]

If I grew up in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

I agree with the poster who said the black community has an important bond, some kind of togetherness. Yes, we have problems but we do support each other.

I'm not sure, but I think you are referring to me. But that was the sense I have gathered over time.

People I don't know have wished me good luck and felt proud of me b/c of the academic success i've had just b/c we're both black or because of the community I came from(lower-income background).


HOWEVER, this is not something unique to the black community. There's a sense of togetherness for many ethnic groups... latinos, chinese, Irish, Italians.. as an oppressed group I would think gays would have more of an understanding and support for others. They don't really seem to though. Gays are often more racist(outright and subtlely) than their straight counterparts. They're not that accepting with open arms to minority groups as far as I've seen and I as a whole, I havent really seen them come out in support of women's issues, issues of low-income groups, or minority issues.

We just don't have that same bond with other Whites, even. It would be pretty unusual for, in the example you pointed out, for a White person simply to go up to another White person who they don't know, and give them all sorts of congratulations and that kind of thing. We are a Community, per a label based on our skin color, but we really aren't a Community at all.

We have some Church group communities, like Blacks and Hispanics, but those are pretty small and rare in the big scheme of things. Most of our Church goers leave Church on Sunday and they don't see each other until next Sunday, or the Sunday after that.

We keep to ourselves and are more bound by individual friendships that are made, as opposed to sticking together as a whole community. Many, many families out there aren't even close to each other.

But I speculate since Minorities do have that sense of Community amongst their race, they interpret that the reason they don't see it amongst Gays, is because "White Gays are racist". And I dare say that the overwhelming number of Gays are not racist. Although you don't see or feel that sense of "Community" with White Gays simply because we don't really have that same sense of "Community" and togetherness like minorities do. That simply isn't the way we do things. We are more individual and have less of a sense of loyalty to each other. We're basically out for ourselves ... but at the same time that doesn't interfere with our ideals for doing the right thing, especially when it comes to voting.

So I guess I am saying when I see people say that "the Gay Community hasn't made me feel welcomed" (presumably we are talking about White Gays) .... it simply is because we aren't really that together as a real "Community" ourselves. We're out there. But I dare say an overwhelming majority of us don't have meetup groups, or go out in groups, or anything like that. But we do have our individual friends, and still believe in Gay Rights.

But again, its understandable for a minority to question that if they see and feel the sense of togetherness in their racial community, why they don't see the same in the "Gay Community"? And the answer is because it isn't because Blacks are being shunned. Rather, it's simply because the entire sense of community you have amongst Race simply is not there with White Gays, in general. Like I said, we don't even have it with each other. We are simply out there on our own and try to do the right thing.

 

[CupCake]

If I grew up in your shoes, I'd probably feel the same way you do.

I agree with the poster who said the black community has an important bond, some kind of togetherness. Yes, we have problems but we do support each other.
People I don't know have wished me good luck and felt proud of me b/c of the academic success i've had just b/c we're both black or because of the community I came from(lower-income background).

HOWEVER, this is not something unique to the black community. There's a sense of togetherness for many ethnic groups... latinos, chinese, Irish, Italians.. as an oppressed group I would think gays would have more of an understanding and support for others. They don't really seem to though. Gays are often more racist(outright and subtlely) than their straight counterparts. They're not that accepting with open arms to minority groups as far as I've seen and I as a whole, I havent really seen them come out in support of women's issues, issues of low-income groups, or minority issues.

Well lucky there are boneheads in every group... We got some horrible racist gays and horrible racist blacks and horrible racist irish people or what ever.... Bone heads are every where... But I know we got some good gays out there! Heck I am one of them! I care about womens rights and I would march for women,minorities,animals,and more!

But if we have this disconnect in the gay community like you say... The question is how can we come together? I say go out and join LGBT groups and march! I did and it really gives you an opportunity to meet some cool ass people and they are not racist or boneheads ...

 

[CupCake]

And by me telling you to go out and march I am not trying to tell you what to do lol I just am the kind of person who wants to solve problems! And through all the poison of this thread and arguments I feel we are kind of getting down to the bottom of this... and allot of us are venting and expressing how we truly feel We got Black gays who feel left out and feel like they are not embraced by the LGBT community and we have Black gays who feel they are not accepted by the Black community and more by the gay community.... We got white gays who feel that blacks should support them just as much as they feel other groups do..... At first it was a mess and arguing all over the place but now I feel that people have really let out how they feel so I think we can find a common ground in this and agree upon something!

 

[MystikWizard]

From what I gather from looking at some responses in this thread, that there are Blacks who are looking for some form of "reaching out" from a Community that really isn't there ... or at least established. And that has nothing to do with purposefully being "shunned" by Gays. We simply are not a Community in the ways I think Blacks think of the word "Community".

Gays call themselves a "Community", but it is only in the sense that we identify with each other as being "Gay". However, there isn't this feeling of "togetherness" like Blacks may think there are amongst us, like Blacks have with each other.

It just isn't there, guys.

And to further demonstrate the point, I saw pointed out that "Gays don't have Gay Leaders to speak up for the Community". Well, that should be perhaps a big clue that maybe we aren't as much of a "together-like" community as maybe we are thought to be. We are all Gay, and a community in that sense, but we are each doing our own thing, and not a "community" in the sense that Blacks, Hispanics, or other groups may think we are.

But again, that doesn't mean we don't believe in doing what is right or making any less effort by educating friends, family members, peers, etc. on what homosexuality is. We just do it more so on an individual basis and work through ourselves, while having individual friendships.

To be frank, I only have one Gay friend who I keep in touch with regularly. I am not part of any Group or anything like that. And he is the only Gay person who I know, personally. I don't go out to Gay Clubs or have Gay Groups I'm a part of, or anything like that.

But it's like I said. Whites are just more individual. It has nothing to do with "shunning" or "not reaching out to Blacks". We just aren't a Community in the same sense that I think a lot of Blacks may think we are, or think of the word. And that is simply because Whites aren't really that Community-Oriented amongst themselves, as a whole.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

Your Black first and Gay second and I am Both at the same time (I do not put one ahead of the other) so I guess we all just got to agree to disagree about this one

I felt the same way as you when I was eighteen, but time and experience changes things. As I began to venture further out into the world, operating in various social and professional circles, I faced constant reminders that my race is always an issue, whereas my sexuality often recedes into the background or never comes up. I've never had trouble getting service somewhere because I am gay, but being black frequently leads to unequal treatment in places of public accomodation in 2009.

 

[CupCake]

I felt the same way as you when I was eighteen, but time and experience changes things. As I began to venture further out into the world, operating in various social and professional circles, I faced constant reminders that my race is always an issue, whereas my sexuality often recedes into the background or never comes up. I've never had trouble getting service somewhere because I am gay, but being black often leads to unequal treatment in places of public accomodation in 2009.

Yeah well maybe it is the age difference and I try to ignore racism even though I know it does exist... I believe you.... But I still will never put one down ya know? I will always defend both

 

[BabiGayPimp]

But it's like I said. Whites are just more individual. It has nothing to do with "shunning" or "not reaching out to Blacks". We just aren't a Community in the same sense that I think a lot of Blacks may think we are, or think of the word. And that is simply because Whites aren't really that Community-Oriented amongst themselves, as a whole.

Unless you believe humans are rocks, you must accept that ideas and information are continuously and efficiently shared among individuals that have things in common. White, gay North American males have a social matrix that is replicated in every community where there is a critical mass of opportunity. And that social matrix has some racially insensitive nodes. It's no surprise that they have had little success in winning over black evangelicals who have been known to compromise, religiously, when duly inspired.

 

[MystikWizard]

Unless you believe humans are rocks, you must accept that ideas and information are continuously and efficiently shared among individuals that have things in common.
White, gay North American males have a social matrix that is replicated in every community where there is a critical mass of opportunity. And that social matrix has some racially insensitive nodes. It's no surprise that they have had little success in winning over black evangelicals who have been known to compromise, religiously, when duly inspired.

Um, have you ever heard of parents and families? That concept vs the whole "Community Outreach" based on one's skin color are two different things. It has to do with bigoted attitudes that are passed down simply from one family generation to another.

I think the bigger question you should be asking yourself is why reach out to religious leaders? Are you basically admitting that religious leaders are the ones that control your entire race and make decisions for you? If so, that is further credence to Whites as a whole on being more individualized and free-thinkers, which further explains why Whites are becoming less and less religious ... while Blacks maintain this loyalty to the Church and look to the Church leaders to guide them. Where you could choose to stand up to the Church, instead you make the Church leaders your masters. And that is by choice, because nothing is done about it. The problem I see is that not enough people in your community stands up to the Church, and thus you allow the Church to set the tone and direction of the entire community.





Again, I think you are looking for a Community that isn't really there, in the sense that you have been raised to understand what a community is based on your race. And because of this sense of "I have to stand up for my race", and being that you allow the Religious Leaders to set the entire direction of your race ... I personally think people with the mentalities you have are afraid to challenge those leaders, for fear of being alienated and condemned by other members of your Race. Hence, why you are Black first ... and Gay second, as you admitted.


Here's another chance for you to elaborate a little more on that post I made to you earlier to go into context with what that really means.

Can you elaborate a little more on what exactly that means as far as how you interact with people in the Black race with regards to homosexuality?

I have heard three people in this thread say that "I am Black first, and I am Gay 2nd."

I have also heard your explanation that you feel this way because everyone sees the color of your skin first. Okay. Now, fast forwarding to the last paragraph and the conclusion, what does the statement "I am Black first and Gay second" mean in terms of your views on homosexuality as compared to the majority of the Black community?

Thank you.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

Yeah well maybe it is the age difference and I try to ignore racism even though I know it does exist... I believe you.... But I still will never put one down ya know? I will always defend both

Cupcake, let me try and put this another way. When you have two territories in your kingdom and one is always under attack while the other rarely is, you are likely to consider yourself a soldier first for the territory that is taking the most fire. And race for a black man in the Americas is far more incendiary than sexual oriention because your color is, literally and figuratively, all over you--and the stakes rise as you climb the corporate and social ladder.

You may find, eventually, that the race thing is a far more complicated and nuanced battle than the gay thing and requires heavier, more durable weapons.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

Um, have you ever heard of parents and families? That concept vs the whole "Community Outreach" based on one's skin color are two different things. It has to do with bigoted attitudes that are passed down simply from one family generation to another.

BTW, could you possibly elaborate a little more on my post to you earlier?

Mystik, I'm beginning to think you are a hopeless case. People on this board have indentified a cultural disconnect that has some religious and racially-influenced roots, and proposed possible solutions and you're still looking for excuses to not listen.

 

[CupCake]

Cupcake, let me try and put this another way. When you have two territories in your kingdom and one is always under attack while the other rarely is, you are likely to consider yourself a soldier first for the territory that is taking the most fire. And race for a black man in the Americas is far more incendiary than sexual oriention because your color is, literally and figuratively, all over you--and the stakes rise as you climb the corporate and social ladder.

You may find, eventually, that the race thing is a far more complicated and nuanced battle than the gay thing and requires heavier, more durable weapons.

I see exactly what you mean. And I understand what you are saying.. But my gay battle field has been attacked before also....When people put my rights in hands of religious people when religion and law should be separated and I hate when people say its a choice and all that stuff.... I know black people have more to worry about because thats what people see when they see you.... BUT! I see black faces on tv and on commercials and we have a black president and Black families are shown in movies! If gay families were shown in shows there would be preaching to take it off air and they would never elect a Gay president in this time period not even a non Christian president... Even though one is external (Black) and one is internal and you don't gotta tell anyone (Gay) when people talk badly about gays it still hurts even though you can act like your not gay... You catch my drift?

 

[MystikWizard]

Mystik, I'm beginning to think you are a hopeless case. People on this board have indentified a cultural disconnect that has some religious and racially-influenced roots, and proposed possible solutions and you're still looking for excuses to not listen.

Well, I suppose it is in the Eye of the Beholder, because the one I constantly see making excuses is you. And nor are you listening to what I am saying, either. You are looking for something that isn't there. And when that something doesn't reach out to you, you wonder why. Because I'm telling you, from a White person to a Black person ... "It isn't there." We are not a Community in the understanding that you think we are.

I added a couple things. Maybe you will be kind enough to address them.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

^When I wouldn't get too excited about a black president. There was a perfect storm of opportunity that got him over. When his one term is over, we may never see his like for the rest of the century.

And you'll still have to deal with your personal issues that have the highest visibility.

When you're sitting in the boardroom, your race is more likely to be a flashpoint for conflict and opposition than your gender or sexual orientation.

 

[MystikWizard]

^When I wouldn't get too excited about a black president. There was a perfect storm of opportunity that got him over. When his one term is over, we may never see his like for the rest of the century.

And you'll still have to deal with your personal issues that have the highest visibility.

When you're sitting in the boardroom, your race is more likely to be a flashpoint for conflict and opposition than your gender or sexual orientation.

Again, you still haven't deep dived, like I requested of you 3 times now, to explain to me "Black First, Gay Second" ... in terms of your attitudes towards Gay Rights and in terms of how you address your approach to it within the Black Community.

What does what color your skin is, like you mentioned in the Board Room example above, have to do with your beliefs on Gay Rights, your secondary community?

Please elaborate if you would ....

 

[BabiGayPimp]

Well, I suppose it is in the Eye of the Beholder, because the one I constantly see making excuses is you. And nor are you listening to what I am saying, either. You are looking for something that isn't there. And when that something doesn't reach out to you, you wonder why. Because I'm telling you, from a White person to a Black person ... "It isn't there." We are not a Community in the understanding that you think we are.

I added a couple things. Maybe you will be kind enough to address them.

Well, I've already explained to you that similar indiviudals clump together and form cultures, collective identities, and groupthink that often leads to misunderstanding and conflict with other factions.

This is all very basic stuff. Yes, you insist it "doesn't exist." You are still in denial because, at some level, I don't think you want to see our respective communities working through our issues.