why don't all blacks support gays?

[bankside]

hasn't that already been answered? culture, environment, hypermasculinity, religion and ignorance.

alpha offered some wonderful solutions; outreach, outreach, and then when you're done with that, some more outreach. black americans grow up with a very negative image portrayal of homosexuality, no one is offering a counterbalance; not the schools, not the government, etc...

we're at a stalemate right now because neither side is willing to meet in the middle so for now all we can do is watch each group throw stones at the other and stomp their heels into the ground.

Yeah, I agree with you about solutions. The point of my post was to reinforce the idea that it was a serious question, a fair question, with every possibility of a practical answer.

I'm also on record as saying I don't like the game different communities play of saying "My burden is greater than your burden" and when I see even a hint of that, I play along just to expose it for the silliness it is.

 

[Alpha1851]

You are mistaken in all of your historical parallels. (or rather you are mistaken in denying the historical parallels).

Gay people couldn't vote from within a prison or a mental institution. Gay people were turned in by their own families, the same way family members can turn to "informers" in totalitarian regimes. Profiling based on atypical gender behavior doesn't result in bullying? Denied services? Employment discrimination?

No, sorry. Try again.

Ummm, no, I'm aware of history. Yes, I realize LGBT people suffered in the past and continue to suffer today. You asked for reasons, I provided you w/ what I was given. I have no qualms about chatting folks up and asking them why they believe the way they do. If you don't agree w/ what I received as answers, well okay, but that doesn't change the opinions of some of members of the African American community.

As an aside, I personally don't think any plight compares to slavery or the Holocaust. Not the fact that women couldn't vote, were treated as chattel, and are still paid less than males, nor the fact that LGBT members were placed in mental institutions, have been murdered, or are denied marriage rights. This really isn't about which minority group has had it worse, but I still consider enslavement and the Holocaust camps as a hell of their own. That's just my opinion.

Now, it's your turn. Why do some African Americans (I believe you mentioned 5 to 1) fail to support the LGBT community in the fight for equal rights? And, what is your proposed solution?

 

[BabiGayPimp]

^Good points fabulouslyghetto. I am an incrementalist. I believe you can make change happen by gradually whittling away at hardened attitudes. Rome was not built in a day. Outreach and dialogue does make a difference.

And we should not automatically expect ideological consistency from people. A person who got hit by a baseball last week will not necessarily be sympathetic towards someone else who gets hit by a snowball next week. To the latter it seems like the exact same thing, but the former may not see it that way, at first...

 

[MystikWizard]

hasn't that already been answered? culture, environment, hypermasculinity, religion and ignorance.

alpha offered some wonderful solutions; outreach, outreach, and then when you're done with that, some more outreach. black americans grow up with a very negative image portrayal of homosexuality, no one is offering a counterbalance; not the schools, not the government, etc...

we're at a stalemate right now because neither side is willing to meet in the middle so for now all we can do is watch each group throw stones at the other and stomp their heels into the ground.

Well, the saying goes that "Acknowledging the Problem" is the first step to taking action. So now that we acknowledge the problem in the Black Community ... I would like to seek a Black Man's opinion on what you personally feel should transpire next.

What I am looking for are specifics. Specifically how would you advise the Gay Community to "reach out". And again as a Black Man, do you think that a lot of attitudes and behaviors can actually change by this "reaching out". Is it realistic?

Also on a side note, the quicker religion gets stamped out of society and we become Europeanized, the faster I think attitudes will continue to change across the board towards Homosexuality. Right now, religion is the crutch people cling to on their reasoning. I think in most cases, it is simply an excuse that is given and the prejudices are simply engrained in everyone ... but once that crutch gets removed, I think many of the stances of people against Gay Marriage will change.

 

[bankside]

Ummm, no, I'm aware of history. Yes, I realize LGBT people suffered in the past and continue to suffer today. You asked for reasons, I provided you w/ what I was given. I have no qualms about chatting folks up and asking them why they believe the way they do. If you don't agree w/ what I received as answers, well okay, but that doesn't change the opinions of some of members of the African American community.

As an aside, I personally don't think any plight compares to slavery or the Holocaust. Not the fact that women couldn't vote, were treated as chattel, and are still paid less than males, nor the fact that LGBT members were placed in mental institutions, have been murdered, or are denied marriage rights. This really isn't about which minority group has had it worse, but I still consider enslavement and the Holocaust camps as a hell of their own. That's just my opinion.

Now, it's your turn. Why do some African Americans (I believe you mentioned 5 to 1) fail to support the LGBT community in the fight for equal rights? And, what is your proposed solution?

Were you aware that gay people were a big part of the holocaust? Were you aware that the Nazis planned the extermination of gays as carefully as they planned the extermination of Jews? Were you aware that a gay person would try to upgrade their pink triangle to get a star of david in a concentration camp so they would have a better chance of survival?

Check out homomonument.nl and many other sources as well. Hell is a shared place. I have looked into the oven in a concentration camp where I would have been tossed alive back in the day, alonside the Jews and the Gypsies. It is hard to forget that.

As far as numbers, I did not claim any particular ratio of people in the black community were supporters or not, and although apparently black people live in places other than california!!! it would seem to me that the numbers there did show a significant difference. My guess is that religion has too strong a hold.

My guess that there is also such a thing, if you want to call it, as "internalized black-ophobia" which makes a few black people reluctant to apply the wisdom of their own experience to the plight of gay people, as they try to live up to the attitudes they think will be most likely to be approved of by those in power.

And I imagine the most common reasons to explain why black people voted the way they did in California are the reasons so many other Americans are ignorant about the same issue.

But there is a difference, and it is worth trying to figure out what that is all about.

 

[MystikWizard]

@ the consensus that this is somehow a problem only in the black community. Everyone else is in lock-step with their fair treatment of gays but those hypocritical coloreds. It's too much.

I think it's time to quit the PC bullshit, personally.

Once any given communities numbers get below 50%, then problem solved. Until then ....

BTW, Hispanics are a problem, as well, and has been stated on here. However there are far more Blacks in the country than Hispanics, at the same time.

 

[TylerDurden222]

What you are doing is simply PC. When people make generalizations like this, however it can be backed up with actual votes like Prop 8, in which the majority of Black and Hispanic voters voted "YES on 8" while the majority of Whites and Asians should both be congratulated on voting under the 50% mark, then yes there is a case for discussion.

It certainly appears that a greater degree of homophobia lies in the Black and Hispanic communities as opposed to the White and Asian communities.

Call it a generalization or whatever. However in this day and age when generalizations are made, you should have enough sense to realize that not EVERY SINGLE member of said communities are being labeled as "homophobic" and "not supporting Gays". However, once any community crosses the 50% mark on anything, they enter the majority. And as far as I'm concerned ... are fair game.




There is absolutely nothing wrong with your post and I appreciate you bringing it up. However, I would include Hispanics in this, as well. However, depending on where you live, you may not see their behaviors first-hand as much. If you live anywhere near either the Coasts or the Borders, you have a greater chance of exposure, as well.

But again, thank you for addressing the "tough issues" that sometimes need to be addressed.

i'm focusing on blacks due to their leadership during the civil rights movement, Hispanics were not as outspoken on the topic.

Moe is correct!

It's obvious that the OP isn't looking for answers. He's just looking for a place to vent. Maybe you should take your anger back to the break room at your job...

i have a great job, work with great people, and am one of the 20 highest paid people in a fortune 500 company. no need to be angry at work.

I never insulted you personally. The "Why don't blacks support gays" is a dumb juvenile topic imo b/c you're not gonna get a clean and direct answer. Not to mention a question like this one can apply to any group/race of people. I just find it interesting that there's so much fascination about blacks around here and why they do what they do as if it's foreign to every other race of humans who follow the same philosophies. You know, it always those blacks. I have yet to see a thread that asked "Why don't all whites support gays" or even better, "Why don't all gays support gays".

Black folks just seem to be you guys favorite target around here when bringing topics about equality and acceptance.

blacks are the topic due to their outspoken desire for "equal rights." not sure why this isn't sinking in, but when i see an asian million man march followed by a 70% support in declining gay marriage they too will be included in these topics.

Um....Cupcake ~ Stop being a Ass Kisser on this thread! You've made your race known to us 200 times already! The OP insulted YOUR Race in his premise, yet you keep making posts to support him.

and when exactly did i insult his race? as i've stated several times i never said "no blacks support gays." i used the word "all" to imply there were in facts blacks that were supportive. i'm not sure what to tell you, but it seems as though you are choosing to deny your mistake and dance around it with constant banter

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Yeah, I agree with you about solutions. The point of my post was to reinforce the idea that it was a serious question, a fair question, with every possibility of a practical answer.

I think he asked a valid question. His wording may have been poor but what are you gonna do?

What I am looking for are specifics. Specifically how would you advise the Gay Community to "reach out".

I think one of our best tool is the public education system. The high-school curriculum should be teaching about sexual orientation, the benefits of educating youth about this before the world has a chance to infect their minds with homophobia are deserving of their own thread.

And again as a Black Man, do you think that a lot of attitudes and behaviors can actually change by this "reaching out". Is it realistic?

Yup. Change is a guarantee. It's going to happen no matter what we do, whether that change is good or bad depends on how we act and react to these situations.

A friend of mine and I are brainstorming ideas for letters we can send to various churches in the US just to open up dialogue with different pastors. I dunno what to expect of it though but I'm sure somebody's ears will be open.

 

[bankside]

@ the consensus that this is somehow a problem only in the black community. Everyone else is in lock-step with their fair treatment of gays but those hypocritical coloreds. It's too much.

Just so you know, I don't know if anyone is saying there is such a consensus, and if there was I would not be a part of it.

I think there is a problem with freedom of the press in North Korea but that does not mean I think for a second that Koreans are incapable of free thought or that they are incapable of publishing things.

But if I mention the problems in North Korea, yet I save my criticism of Russian media for another day, it doesn't mean I'm out to lunch, or trying to single out the Koreans. Today it is their turn.

 

[bankside]

I think he asked a valid question. His wording may have been poor but what are you gonna do?



I think one of our best tool is the public education system. The high-school curriculum should be teaching about sexual orientation, the benefits of educating youth about this before the world has a chance to infect their minds with homophobia are deserving of their own thread.



Yup. Change is a guarantee. It's going to happen no matter what we do, whether that change is good or bad depends on how we act and react to these situations.

A friend of mine and I are brainstorming ideas for letters we can send to various churches in the US just to open up dialogue with different pastors. I dunno what to expect of it though but I'm sure somebody's ears will be open.

See, this is why I want the OP's question to be taken seriously.

I agree with you about the public education system. I think that would make a difference, and I know two things from other threads about the US public education system:
1) it doesn't touch sexual orientation with a 3 meter pole. (it is not so hot with the metric system either)
2) it doesn't provide the same chance to kids in every neighbourhood regardless of colour.

But when you put that together with the discussion above, now I have two reasons to support improved education with equal access for black people.
A) everybody should have a fair chance at an education (which I already knew)
B) As a gay person, my equality gets fucked over by people who don't have a fair chance at an education (which is good to know).

So, hopefully, this discussion will show us that more neighbourhoods getting better education leads to more gays getting equality. WIN!

 

[TylerDurden222]

Not for me the problem won't be solved. I'm sorry but I can't put that much faith in a poll that can be easily manipulated to show one side of the view. I need better evidence than a few Gallup polls from California for me to make up my mind how one race feels about gay rights.

Until then, I'm putting all my chips in to get ALL people (not just blacks and whites) to support us in our fight for equality.

why is it okay for you to say "all people" but you criticized my use of "all blacks?" are you implying nobody supports gay rights, as you stated i implied about blacks?

i know this is going to be hard to answer with your foot in your mouth.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

Outreach efforts in the Black and Latino communities can be very effective if you participate within the churches that serve those communities and you learn to speak "God's language." After witnessing black men dance, joyfully, in the aisles of a Church of God in Christ (C.O.G.I.C.) during a funeral, I knew I had come to the right place to begin my work. God placed me in the company of good people ready to listen.

 

[bankside]

Outreach efforts in the Black and Latino communities can be very effects if you participate within the churches that serve those communities and you learn to speak "God's language."

How is an atheist supposed to do that, pray tell?

"The God I think you are imagining would want you to treat me equally?"

No, the minute you need god around to grant anyone's freedom is the minute you become enslaved to the priests.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
- Denis Diderot

 

[Alpha1851]

Were you aware that gay people were a big part of the holocaust? Were you aware that the Nazis planned the extermination of gays as carefully as they planned the extermination of Jews? Were you aware that a gay person would try to upgrade their pink triangle to get a Star of David in a concentration camp so they would have a better chance of survival?

Of course.

Believe it or not, I do know how to read and have actually finished books that didn't have bright. pretty pictures in them, I have attended school, and I am active in the LGBT civil rights movement. Do you think I'm stupid/uneducated/an air head? Cause you're crossing the line.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Outreach efforts in the Black and Latino communities can be very effective if you participate within the churches that serve those communities and you learn to speak "God's language." After witnessing black men dance in the aisles of a Church of God in Christ (C.O.G.I.C.) during a funeral, I knew I had come to the right place to begin my work.

exactly. "you stupid religious cuntbags you're holding back my rights why do you believe in god anyway are you stupid or insecure? you can't even see god, why the fuck would you...." ain't gonna cut it. the same people condemning religious for throwing stones have a pocket full of rocks themselves.

 

[TylerDurden222]

I'll admit it, I was giving you a hard time before. I just couldn't help myself, you made it too easy.

Even though like I said, you got a bit too aggressive and patronizing with your tone for me to believe that this was a topic you genuinely cared about and wanted to discuss civilly. B/c 99.9% of these "why blacks" threads turn into neverending shitfights due to the careless and insensitive nature of the OP.

funny thing is if you read all our posts, you are the aggressive one, with the harsh tone. and i would like you to publicly apologize for making a stink over my use of "all" when you just made the same "mistake" yourself. you are either being ignorant or hypocritical, to deny this after your post above is dishonest. so which one is it?

 

[bankside]

Of course.

Believe it or not, I do know how to read and have actually finished books that didn't have bright. pretty pictures in them, I have attended school, and I am active in the LGBT civil rights movement. Do you think I'm stupid/uneducated/an air head? Cause you're crossing the line.

Its funny, your post #90 where you state your personal opinion in an aside seems as though the books didn't sink in. You seem to endorse some of the reasons collected in your survey of black opinion, and you specifically minimise the plight of gay people in comparison to that of black people or even other holocaust survivors. To me that is what crosses the line.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

We should send our very own Jasun to the Black Churches as a Gay Envoy.

bad idea girl

and you specifically minimise the plight of gay people in comparison to that of black people

that's because the two struggles aren't HISTORICALLY the same. if you'd like a reference, call your 9th grade history teacher.

 

[TylerDurden222]

thanks for conceding, it only took 3 pages for you to recognize your behavior. amazing that i made a thread dedicated to a certain hypocrisy, and all you did was provide hypocritical statements.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Why are some of you giving legitimacy to this "baited thread"?
Some have given thoughful retorts to the "so called" issue, yet this angry troll responds by being condescending and defiant.

Fail Much?

there go those lazy blacks again. too busy frying chicken to take your big bubble behind on to google and find a fail gif?