Why I stopped being a Right-Winger...

[opinterph]

The Republicans ... are struggling to preserve the America that was great.

What is the most recent period in time when America was great?

 

[Kulindahr]

The Republicans have not moved to the right. They are struggling to preserve the America that was great.

Oh, bullshit. Republicans used to believe in freedom of religion; now they believe in religious oppression. They used to believe in budgetary sense; now they believe in budgetary suicide. They used to believe in merit; now they discriminate on the basis of things they consider immoral. They used to believe in small government; now they favor meddling in people's personal lives.

I don't know how old you are, but when I was a Republican -- when Johann was -- Republicans were not this rabid, bigoted, poor-hating, economically suicidal horde more dependent on slogans than on thought. Conservative thought could be called that back then; there was rigor and scholarship and common sense -- now, there's almost none of that left in the GOP.

The big change was in the '80s when a deliberate, plotted takeover of the party by religious reactionaries was launched, and succeeded. Now it matter more if you say "Puh-raise Jee-zus!" than if you can quote Burke or Black or Buckley.

A Republican of when America was great would be Dwight Eisenhower. That solid conservative wouldn't be accepted in today's GOP, if for no other reason than that he would accept the need to raise taxes on the wealthy as part of dealing with the deficit and debt.

If today's Republican party hadn't moved to the right and left me behind, I'd still be one. But I like calm, reasoned thought, not religious mania masquerading as patriotism, not economic fables foisted on the public as rational policy.

 

[Benvolio]

When does your calm, reasoned thought begin? Looks more name calling to me. Nonsense in any event. Neither Eisenhower nor any of the other Conservative you claim to have liked would ever have agreeg that half the country should pay all the taxes to give the other half a free ride. They would be appalled that 60 million Americans have been aborted by your party. All those Conservatives you invoke would see the pending doom we face from uncontrolled spending. They would not be surprised at the Democrats belief that they are untitled to infinite spending and infinite taxes until the few taxpayers are sucked absolutely dry. None of them were socialists. All believed in free enterprise and would see that our economy is being destroyed by regulation with no replacement economic system in mind. I surely don't need to remind you what they would have thought of gay marriage. They would have seen the inexcusable insanity, cruelty and inhumanity of continuing to import millions and millions of unemployed immigrants when we have millions of our own unemployed.
And one of the reasons you liberals like the good old GOP was because it was not able to control Congress and the Presidency at the same time.
Reagan was able to use the common resentment of abortion to weld together a party capable of winning.

 

[Centexfarmer]

If today's Republican party hadn't moved to the right and left me behind, I'd still be one. But I like calm, reasoned thought, not religious mania masquerading as patriotism, not economic fables foisted on the public as rational policy.

It's hysteria.

These so called "conservatives" of today eat their own.

Quick! Who's famous quote is this?

“In our tent will be found those who believe that government was created by “We, the People;” that government exists for the convenience of the people and we can give to government no power we do not possess as individuals; that the citizen does not earn to support the government, but supports a government so that he may be free to earn; that, because there can be no freedom without law and order, every act of government must be approved if it makes freedom more secure and disapproved if it offers security instead of freedom.”

I'll make it multiple choice just for fun:

A. Barry Goldwater
B. Ron Paul
C. Mitt Romney
D. Ronald Reagan
E. All of the Above.




















Answer? D. Ronald Reagan April 1, 1967.

My BFF since middle school, is now a delegate of the Texas Republican Party. Because I've been actively involved in the Texas Democratic Party as a delegate and precinct chair for more than 20 years, he wanted to get involved and change things. He and I both voted for Reagan back when we were first old enough.

My best friend broke ranks and voted for Michael Dukakis on the Democratic ticket for POTUS in 1988, while I (that's right centexfarmer was a Republican) voted for George H.W. Bush.

A lot can happen in four years, and by 1992 I had come out of the closet, started dating this really hot guy who was an active Democrat and staunchly opposed to the first "war" in Iraq, and he showed me just how duplicitous the Republican Party really was.

I joined my boyfriend in the Unity '92 Campaign to get as many Democrats elected as possible, including Bill Clinton who was at the top of the ticket that year.

I paid my dues; nailing together campaign signs, manning phone banks, caucusing precincts, and going door to door registering people to vote. I looked around me and discovered that I was working along side African Americans, Hispanics, Union Workers, Teachers, Catholics, Neighborhood Activists, "community organizers," and I realized that the Democratic Party (at that time) truly strived to represent all Americans. Unless you were gay, in which case they'd take your money, pat you on the head for volunteering to get them elected, and if it didn't cost them anything politically might pass some legislation on your behalf or in your favor.

The Republican Party during this time went in the complete and opposite direction.

They took everything that was great and good about America and had a fire sale.

Rather than running on principles, they began campaigning on "morality" cloaked as "fiscal responsibility."

Bill Clinton balanced the Federal Budget with Republicans having control of both the U.S. Senate and Congress after the 1994 mid term elections.

In 2000 Vice President Al Gore could have (should have) won that election, but the Republicans wanted that election to be about "morality."

Not the economy, not on the greatness of America, not on anything of those things.

And the U.S. Supreme Court, comprised of appointees made by Reagan and George H. W. Bush decided that election for the American public in Bush v. Gore.

President Clinton had been waging a war against al Qaeda since their first attempt on the World Trade Center in 1993, but the Republican "leadership" at the time (many of whom are now either in prison, failed POTUS candidates, or taking corporate money to fund Tea Party candidates), brushed off Clinton's efforts against terrorism as his attempt to "wag the dog" by trying to distract from the Lewinsky scandal.

George W. Bush, son of former President George H. W. Bush gets appointed by the U.S. Supreme court and is sworn into office in January of 2001.

Not having an agenda, goals, pieces of legislation, competence, or aptitude for holding the position of President, former Texas Governor George W. Bush (who was elected by Karl Rove on both accounts and who's cabinet was comprised of his "daddies" friends in Corporate America, and his daddies former CIA contacts), sets about playing golf and clearing brush on his Central Texas "ranch."

Then on a beautiful, clear Tuesday morning in September on the 11th of that month, 2001 at least four Domestic Air Carriers are hijacked by al Qaeda. Two of those flights make it to lower Manhattan, and the world watched in horror as two icons of the New York City skyline crashed down into rubble killing innocent Americans; firefighters, police officers, individuals, husbands, wives, gays, straights, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, and Agnostics.

Not since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989 did the Republicans, the GOP and so called "conservatives" have such an abstract enemy. This time they had multiple enemies, but now those enemies became Americans themselves; anyone who opposed them.

Within months, and the years that followed Republicans were responsible in the largest build up, and consolidation of Government Power since FDR half a century earlier.

The Corporate takeover of America, which began under Ronald Reagan, was now complete.

Thousands of Americans were murdered in the process, millions more have lost their homes, their jobs, and "The American Dream."

Meanwhile the Dow Jones Industrial Average is at an all time high, wages aren't keeping up with inflation, and even with "Obamacare" an unknown previous medical condition can send you or members of your family off having to file for bankruptcy.

How bad has the last decade of American Politics been?

Americans sent a novice mixed race "community organizer" to the White House over a Vietnam "War Hero" for President back in 2008.

Hello? Anyone listening, am I the only one paying attention here?

And now even "conservative" journalists, authors, and writers are jumping ship?

And the most self acclaimed "patriotic partisan" within what passives for "conservative" in our country, and those who embrace those ideals are defying the very individuals who gave that segment of our population any real credence to begin with.

Politically, as Americans, I feel that we've all be boiling frogs for at least the past 30 years.

Reagan’s “Big Tent” is still a political winner published May 26, 2012.

The differences between the parties have never been starker. Democrats’ drift to the Left accelerates as they bend to the fickle whims and fads of the day.

Republicans, let’s open our arms to everyone with a positive message of opportunity grounded in timeless conservative principles.

Identity politics area a loser. We have a big tent. Ronald Reagan proved that’s the way to transform America.

Even this guy admits that the water is getting warm.

He just fails to acknowledge that as Americans we're no longer under a tent, but rather a pot of boiling water.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Reagan was able to use the common resentment of abortion to weld together a party capable of winning.

And winning at any cost is an admirable trait of any political party then?

I believe that anyone who supports a party based solely upon the promise or promotion of a wedge issue, doesn't deserve the right to call themselves an American.

Anyone who's willing to "cherry pick" a speech, a debate, or a quote from an individual (or from the Bible) to further an ideology in an effort to oppress others, or to gain political power should be given no place or quarter in a civilized society. Other than to be set as an example of those who should be shouted down for their complicity in murder and treason.

I can agree to disagree.

I have personally given my time, actively participated in the democratic processes of my country's democracy.

I have volunteered my life in defense of the United States Constitution, which is MORE than many of our elected representatives (of either party) have done.

And what passes for "conservative" here in America in 2012, isn't worth a bucket of spit in my opinion.

And outside of the mainstream (lamestream) media, there are prominent, educated, and respected conservatives who are beginning to feel the same way.

I think that as Americans (regardless of party affiliation) we should start to pay attention.

As unwilling members of a "world economy" the dominoes are already in place for civil war, genocide, human suffering and the death of millions of innocents.

And for what exactly?

 

[Benvolio]

60 million American children are not a wedge issue. If the trend continues it means that the people of the United States will be replaced with a different people and culture.

Most of your rant is too incoherent to respond to, so let me ask, what kind of economy do you think we should have? That is always the most important issue for Conservatives. If you disagree with us you should describe in detail the economy you think we should have.

 

[Centexfarmer]

60 million American children are not a wedge issue. If the trend continues it means that the people of the United States will be replaced with a different people and culture.

Blah, blah, blah.

(Let's talk about all of the tens of thousands of unwanted pregnancies because "conservatives" don't want to really talk about teenage hormones, while attempting to teach "abstinence only," and lying about their reasons to defund "Planned Paranthood" because they're "abortion factories" while denying both Men and Woman preventative cancer screening, and low cost preventative health care. How many millions of Men, Woman, and their children are not a "wedge issue" in that regard?)

America is not a homogenous society, or did you not get the memo?

As a country we're constantly evolving.

Not something that one could do if you lived in the Ozarks in the 19th Century where (if you were lucky) could marry your 2nd Cousin, instead of your 1st.

Or were Japanese, and because they were on an Island could ward off Korean, Chinese, and "Mongul" invasions, and later European and American influences to support their supremacy over another infidel, less pure, "other."



I grew up where the terms "Black" and "African American" were what we'd call today as "politically correct terms" for nigger.

I'm personally ashamed to acknowledge that.

But I'm also proud at the same time because I was able to overcome that.

My friends, my coworkers, those who I've come to know, love, and respect, their skin is just a pigmentation, much like too much time in the sun, or a bad "spray tan."

I've found myself thankful that because of my Irish heritage that I can see "sun damage" on my skin before many of some of my friends can.

So there are pluses and minuses.

Most of your rant is too incoherent to respond to

Must be because you haven't yet learned how to speak American.

Ask any English speaking countries in the world, and they will tell you that we don't speaka da engrish.

The language that you're speaking, and the language that you seem to understand (based upon your posts in this forum), is pure "D" Grade, I've only lived in one place my whole life and I count on what others tell me to think because I don't know otherwise/or any better.

See the little out that I gave you to save any honor that you might have?

so let me ask, what kind of economy do you think we should have? That is always the most important issue for Conservatives.

No.

That's the most important issue that you've decided is what defines and separates current "conservatives" from "liberal."

If you disagree with us you should describe in detail the economy you think we should have.

I will as soon as the Republicans spell out their economic, free market policies.

I can only guess and speculate based upon what they're not doing for the American Middle Class.

The only REAL piece of Legislation that's been presented has been from a Freshman Tea Party Congressman from Wisconsin.

And for political reasons (beyond acquiring political power) Republicans don't actually stand for anything, they'll vote for his plan because it will gut the safety nets for middle class Americans while rewarding the wealthiest amongst us.

Thus destroying our economy, the working class, our credit rating, and "The American Dream" as many of us growing up in America, and those who've migrated here for centuries have dreamt it to be.

I'd share with you more my personal economic vision as an American, but based upon your posts here in this subforum you're not even capable of doing that.

So why should I trust you when you're clearly going to ignore it, change the subject, or pick a sound bite to ridicule or to vilify?

In my experience here and out in the world, people like you already have their minds made up. I have better things to do with my time.

 

[Kulindahr]

If the trend continues it means that the people of the United States will be replaced with a different people and culture.

Fascism, pure and simple -- "Protect the Volk!"

The People of the United States have always been ones who came from other shores. America built prosperity on that.

 

[Kulindahr]

Since Benvolio has gone back to chanting slogans (and mixing in a lie or two) instead of thinking, I'm not going to address that post directly.

I will comment that it's plain from analysis of the Ryan Plan that what the Republican party proposes for an economy is a second great depression. The Ryan budget basically outlines an approach to imposing a Soviet system on the United States, via leveling everyone except a nomenklatura of the elite wealthy by making the vast majority equal in poverty. We've heard for several decades now that the Republican party is about small government and reduced spending and prosperity for all, but in actual practice they've shown that they're for government expansion and unrestricted spending and prosperity for the top 0.1%.

To keep people's eyes off this reality, they screech about "The children!", a cry that's just a cover for saying, "We want a theocracy!" The war against abortion is based on absolutely nothing but religious dogma, as there is no scientific basis whatsoever for claiming that a blob of eight or so cells is a person. But they don't want that to be considered, thus demonstrating another part of the real agenda, opposition to science.

Conservatives believe in minimal interference by government in the lives of individuals. Republicans oppose that vehemently -- that point alone is enough to demonstrate that Republicans aren't conservatives. Conservatives believe that while religion is valuable to the body politic, no one religion or select set of religions should have any of their doctrines enacted in law -- exactly why Barry Goldwater thought opposition to gays in the military was stupid, recognizing that it doesn't matter whether you are straight, but whether you shoot straight. That's two points showing that today's Republicans aren't conservatives. Conservatives believe in paying the country's bills, but today's Republicans don't care about paying bills, only about getting their own way -- or they would have happily agreed with President Obama's very conservative proposal for cuts and revenue.

Three strikes, they're out. So, Benvolio, give up calling yourself a conservative as long as you support the Republican party -- it isn't conservative; in fact, there's little left of conservatism about it except lying rhetoric. So long as you claim to be conservative but support the Republican party, you're a liar, because they don't believe in very much that's conservative, and when they make conservative noises... they're lying; their behavior is the opposite.

 

[Benvolio]

Fascism, pure and simple -- "Protect the Volk!"

So now you admit that there is more involved than religion. Abortion on the scale of tens of millions is genocide.

 

[Rolyo85]

Wow, after all of their posts, THAT'S what you came up with?

Abortion is not murder, so multiple abortion can't be genocidal. Learn your terminology and stop depending on religion.

Oh, by the way, what's your stance - as a conservative - on gay marriage? Could you frame it clearly and in non-religious terms?

 

[Kulindahr]

Fascism, pure and simple -- "Protect the Volk!"

So now you admit that there is more involved than religion.

You're conceding that the Republican party is both religious and fascist? That's a good start.

 

[Kulindahr]

Wow, after all of their posts, THAT'S what you came up with?

Abortion is not murder, so multiple abortion can't be genocidal. Learn your terminology and stop depending on religion.

Oh, by the way, what's your stance - as a conservative - on gay marriage? Could you frame it clearly and in non-religious terms?

In fairness, abortion once there are complex brainwaves indicative of such things as dreams, abortion is murder. Before that, there's no rational foundation for claiming it's murder.

I could state the conservative position on gay marriage, but I wouldn't want to prejudice the case.

 

[Benvolio]

You're conceding that the Republican party is both religious and fascist? That's a good start.

Of course not. By your false definition of fascism, the Jewish people were fascists because they objecte to the attempt to obliterate their people and culture. How racist of them to object.

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

Of course not. By your false definition of fascism, the Jewish people were fascists because they objecte to the attempt to obliterate their people and culture. How racist of them to object.

Whaaaatttttttt? Explain to us how wanting to extend the franchise and not be controlled by your narrow definition of "American Traditional Values" (which pretty much seems to read like a wish to throw us back to a time when only white straight christian males had any say and everybody else should shutup or face the consequences) is attempting to "obliterate" a people or a culture?

Are you actually naive enough to think that ONLY democrats have abortions?

Why do you list gay marriage among the "abhorrent" things real conservatives SHOULD be against?

Why do you continue to repeat the lie that Eisenhower was AGAINST regulations and fair tax as part of our free enterprise system?

These fucking bogeyman scenarios in which the big bad liberals are coming to close down your churches and rape your sons is pure emotional propaganda and it's both a complete lie and utterly disgusting.

 

[Kulindahr]

Of course not. By your false definition of fascism, the Jewish people were fascists because they objecte to the attempt to obliterate their people and culture. How racist of them to object.

Ignorance.

One of the basic elements of fascism is a pure people. Another is a pure culture.

Beyond that, your comparison fails: even if we accept that abortion is genocide, that genocide is voluntarily being done by members of the Volk. For your comparison to work, the Jews would have to to have been building the death camps and going because they wanted to.

 

[Benvolio]

Most of your post distorts anything have said, Luv. The Dems have blocked all attempts to stop or limit or discourage abortion, with result that 60 million Americans have been aborted. If that continues the American people and culture will be replaced. The same thing is happening in most European countries, suggesting the doom of western civilization, to be replaced by what?

 

[Benvolio]

Ben, Abortion is not condemned by the Bible anywhere.

But being rich is condemned everywhere. It's plastered all over the Bible.

Yet Christians vote for the rich man's party. Unfathomable.

Free enterprise has done more to help humans than any other factor in history, by far. We Are the party of free enterprise and economic freedom.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Of course not. By your false definition of fascism, the Jewish people were fascists because they objecte to the attempt to obliterate their people and culture. How racist of them to object.

You do realize that the whole of the Jewish population of Germany during the rise of Adolf Hitler was around 1% don't you?

Even historians looking back on that period of World History recognize that a lot of hysteria was fomented by the National Socialist Party of Germany against such a small segment of their population.

But by the time most fair and reasonable thinking Germans realized what was happening, it was too late.

How hysterical (not in a funny ha ha, but hysterical crazy) are your arguments beginning to sound?

 

[LuvFindsAndyHardy]

The Dems have blocked all attempts to stop or limit or discourage abortion, with result that 60 million Americans have been aborted. If that continues the American people and culture will be replaced.

So you are saying, with a straight face, that you honestly believe that the democrats want to abort America out of existence?

Just so I'm clear and understand, is THAT what you are saying????