Wisc. Governor Makes a Cold-Blooded Threat to Sic the National Guard on Union Workers

[Kulindahr]

Dispose of democratically elected senators and replace them with ones appointed by a Republican governor?

Now that's a neo-con executive power grab that would make even Dick Cheney look timid.

Something like appointing your horse to the Senate.

 

[BostonPirate]

Something like appointing your horse to the Senate.

Been there done that.

HEEE HAWWWWWWW

 

[CowboyBob]

Scott Walker has been Governor for only 6 weeks, and already the people of Wisconsin have turned against him. Yet another Republican failure. This rejection of Republicans will spread to other states, just like the revolution in Egypt.

Smart of the Democrats leaving the state to delay this incredibly bad budget bill.

 

[laikaNYC]

^ Sounds like a "cold-blooded threat"

 

[BostonPirate]

peaceful protest is never a bloody threat. That is the point of the action.

 

[jackoroe]

Looks to me like they are doing their job: doing what they can to prevent the state from adopting a piece of foolish legislation.

The bizarre thing here is that according to news reports, the unions are willing to agree to everything else except the provision to strip their collective bargaining right. That's as much a right as marriage equality. Now if this was a piece of legislation banning unmarried, non-hetero couples from living together, I'd expect the Democrats to walk out just the same as they're presently doing.

This is the sort of situation which gives the need for something like a filibuster: the party in power wants to trample someone's rights, so the minority says, "NO" in an emphatic way.

However corrupt and greedy many unions have become, collective bargaining is a right just as much as marriage. Those who love freedom should support whatever it takes to blovk this step backward.

What they should be doing, is making their argument in the legislature, like they were elected to do. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but you are elected to legislate, not run away when you don't like a bill. This is cowardice of the worst sort.

The state employees will still have a right to collective bargaining in terms of their wages. So, their rights aren't being stripped away. The raises are limited to the CPI unless a public referendum approves a bigger raise. We've done much the same here in NJ with our public employees. They will have to kick in more for their pension and medical insurance, just like everybody else. And they've been promised there will be no layoffs or furloughs if this passes. If it doesn't 6000 of them will be hitting the street.

So which is a better deal? Having to kick in more for insurance and pension? Or having 6000 more people unemployed? Remember. Wisconsin has a budget to balance.

http://www.startribune.com/local/116308979.html

 

[jackoroe]

Something like appointing your horse to the Senate.

Horses have a great deal more sense than this buch. Likely that they smell better, too!

 

[theFallenGod]

I didn't want to get involved in this but I live in a city that is constantly being held hostage by unions.

When the government needs to do a little cost cutting ad they want to cut some frivolous things ...then BAM!!!! We don't get our way so we take the entire population hostage.

It's an act of domestic terrorism. Pure and Simple.

The truth is that the unions worked in the past... They made their sacrifices and did a great duty to help the common man... and now there are laws and agencies in place to ensure that things remain fair, but nowadays they are nothing but a terrorist organization run on pure and simple greed.

I have a friend who worked at a construction site...non union... they worked and did a tonne more work than the higher paid union workers who got pretty much free reign to loaf around on the job and take as many breaks as they wanted... the union workers looked down on the non union workers because they knew that they were making them look bad.

During the summer here, we had a massive union strike. It hurt our city with garbage being piled up on the streets during the busiest tourist season. Hurt the city more with their greed.

When you drain the resources of business with your greed you hurt everyone more. And that is what unions do.


Walking out on your job because you aren't getting your way is called insubordination. PERIOD. And no matter what political party you are with you should be replaced with someone who can and will do the job.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm going to make a distinction here, between "top end" (TE) unions and "bottom end" (BE). The TE are the ones that have grown powerful enough they can hold large companies, or cities, or even states, hostage; the BE are the ones fighting for decent conditions and pay -- like one here in Oregon that faced employers breaking labor laws and getting away with it, with workers getting minimum wage and no benefits. TE also includes ones where you get an apprentice plumber doing your pipes and still get a bill for $130/hr, and there's no recourse because they're the only licensed people, and as long as they have their license the city doesn't care.

TE are the ones you're talking about, Fallen. They've become just like corporations, wielding their power to the limit out of greed. They're parasites, however much people may try to defend them.

But any time workers are getting crap jobs with crap pay, BE unions still have a place. And right there is another place the TE unions reveal their nature: when was the last time you heard a union where the members are getting $50/hr moving their members to help out workers getting no more than federal minimum?

My measure would be the minimum wage from the 70s in today's dollars: any time workers are getting less than that, there's a place for a union. That figure is a bit more than $20/hr (something I don't even charge as a handyman, BTW). So if workers making less than that want a union, more power to them! And shame on the established unions for not helping out.

 

[chrisrobin]

^ Sounds like a "cold-blooded threat"

Is that anything like Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich threatening and eventually shutting down the government when he was in "power"? Although you seem to portray yourself as an expert on nearly everything, I am not expecting you to answer my question.

By the way, do you get aroused when you use President Obama's middle name?

 

[BostonPirate]

do you get aroused when you use President Obama's middle name?

It's not the name baby its the chocolate LOVE he craves!

 

[hotatlboi]

The state employees will still have a right to collective bargaining in terms of their wages. So, their rights aren't being stripped away.

False.

The raises are limited to the CPI unless a public referendum approves a bigger raise.

Meaning...they no longer have the right to bargain their wage! LMAO!

The ease with which you contradict yourself is really amazing sometimes.

So which is a better deal? Having to kick in more for insurance and pension? Or having 6000 more people unemployed? Remember. Wisconsin has a budget to balance.

That's not what this is about and you know it. If all that was being discussed was the employees having to pay a little more, you would not be seeing this kind of outrage.

This is about a Republican/Tea Party governor trying to systematically destroy unions, both because they represent a middle class stronghold and are anti-corporatist and therefore the Republican/Tea Party doesn't like them, and also because they tend to mobolize voters for Democrats rather well so the Republicans/Tea Party doesn't like that either.

 

[rareboy]

Seems palemale is begging to be banned

Others might be headed in that direction if they don't stop personalizing issues and posting baiting comments. Particularly after warnings.

 

[jackoroe]

False.


Meaning...they no longer have the right to bargain their wage! LMAO!

The ease with which you contradict yourself is really amazing sometimes.



That's not what this is about and you know it. If all that was being discussed was the employees having to pay a little more, you would not be seeing this kind of outrage.

This is about a Republican/Tea Party governor trying to systematically destroy unions, both because they represent a middle class stronghold and are anti-corporatist and therefore the Republican/Tea Party doesn't like them, and also because they tend to mobolize voters for Democrats rather well so the Republicans/Tea Party doesn't like that either.

From the article cited.

Unions still could represent workers, but could not seek pay increases above those pegged to the Consumer Price Index unless approved by a public referendum.

So they can bargain for wages, limited to the CPI which can be over ridden by the public if they want to give more. You know, the people who actually pay the tab.

It's about the government having finally run out of other people's money and it's got to change. Nobody denies a teacher, a fireman or a clerk a decent living. We need people to work for the state and local government, we just have to contain costs.

And politics are part of the problem. Over the years, the democrats mostly, have handed out goodies to public employee unions in exchange for support at election time. Usually without a means of paying for them either. And it isn't just Wisconsin. California, Illinois, New York and New Jersey among others are in fiscal trouble because the democrats would never say "No" to their minions. It became a symbiotic relationship over time. Give me what what I want and I'll take care of you around election time. The problem is, it wasn't the democrats money to give away, it belongs to the people.

Because of our off year election cycle, we elected a new governor in 2009. Chris Christie put this state through what Wisconsin and others are going through last year. The teachers decided that teaching wasn't so important and went to protest in Trenton, just like Wisconsin. Ultimately Christie won out over the unions and is extremely popular in what is otherwise a democrat bastion. The private sector has suffered far worse than the folks in the public sector. The folks who have lost their jobs in the private sector are forced to pay for very generous benefits for people in the public sector.

That era of entitlement is over and is going to change.

 

[laikaNYC]

Nice to see the union thugs protest so peacefully

 

[jackoroe]

Oh no they didn't!!

 

[BostonPirate]

From the article cited.



So they can bargain for wages, limited to the CPI which can be over ridden by the public if they want to give more. You know, the people who actually pay the tab.

It's about the government having finally run out of other people's money and it's got to change. Nobody denies a teacher, a fireman or a clerk a decent living. We need people to work for the state and local government, we just have to contain costs.

And politics are part of the problem. Over the years, the democrats mostly, have handed out goodies to public employee unions in exchange for support at election time. Usually without a means of paying for them either. And it isn't just Wisconsin. California, Illinois, New York and New Jersey among others are in fiscal trouble because the democrats would never say "No" to their minions. It became a symbiotic relationship over time. Give me what what I want and I'll take care of you around election time. The problem is, it wasn't the democrats money to give away, it belongs to the people.

Because of our off year election cycle, we elected a new governor in 2009. Chris Christie put this state through what Wisconsin and others are going through last year. The teachers decided that teaching wasn't so important and went to protest in Trenton, just like Wisconsin. Ultimately Christie won out over the unions and is extremely popular in what is otherwise a democrat bastion. The private sector has suffered far worse than the folks in the public sector. The folks who have lost their jobs in the private sector are forced to pay for very generous benefits for people in the public sector.

That era of entitlement is over and is going to change.

The government cannot run out of our rights as citizens and workers. Those people fought for this stuff for decades, and if we cannot have respect for our civil servants and treat them with dignity then we need to be asking bigger questions....

Where did we lose our identity as a nation? When Bush decided that torture was ok and was never punished for it... The precedent has been set and human rights in america are now all on the table, subject to political whim

Why are we vilifying workers and the politicians that are defending them? Because its what the teabaggers do, no other good reason. Anyone that is pro labor is suspect in their insane world where the president is not an american, and they pay alot of taxes... both things are BULLSHIT. This turd blossom of a governor thought he could get out in front of a political popularity contest in wisconsin in his first week by taking bold action.

The era of the teabaggers thinking they can do and say anything has come to an end. Tens of thousands of people are now taking to the streets, in direct opposition to these peoples ZANY ideas.

News flash....

Americans want standards of life that exceed that of the citizens of other nations. They understand the severity of this dictatorial onslaught and they will not be victorious.

Wisconsin will swing to Obama again over this and the dems will make political hay for as long as this governor wants to help his party commit political suicide.

This nation is built on the middle class. They pay all the taxes. You have a union, don't you jack? You volunteering to give up your rights as a worker in the name of the deficit?

I know you wouldn't. You are the guy that wont pay higher taxes, as the greatest generation did during a time of war, even though your taxes are at a sixty year LOW.

You are the guy that is more interested in his own hide and wallet than the nations health. There are some things you just don't cut. Civil servants should not be cut. Its just bad economics.

I am extremely fiscally conservative, but this union busting thing? You show me in writing with sources where this governors innitiative will reduce their budget.

Tell me why the three unions who endorsed his campaign are the only unions exempt from the assault.

Tell me why americans are not entitled to use peaceful protests as a means of affecting change.

Tell me why the republican two year filibuster that just ended is any different than what these democratic officials are doing.

And lastly... answer as a man who remembers what american values are. These unions sprung up when the nation was in the great depression, and they are there to protect the people from JUST THESE KINDS OF ACTIONS.... To protect them from the axe when they need their jobs the most.

The economy needs jobs and I think you are carrying water for economic saboteurs who just want to make america weak to regain power.

This governor has done nothing but prove how autocratic he is, and that is precisely why Unions are in existence. He is proving his opponents argument everyday, and you are just one of the patsys that are going along with this.

He is trying to use the force of the government to crush the rights of the workers with no proof that his economic plan will work.

You have to have people paying income taxes or the country doesn't gain revenue, and governmental bodies can make decisions all they like.... without paid employees to enact them they are useless.

If this governor is so worried about this, then has he given up his rights as an elected official? Has he foregone his pay until his imagined crisis ends? no

He went after the teachers instead.

The whole thing is dirty and unamerican, and quite frankly, I thought you were better than this.

Democratic Party of Wisconsin Chair Mike Tate quoted at the outset of this article went on to say before Paul Ryan’s rebuttal to the President Obama’s State of the Union Address
."The radical proposals in Paul Ryan's "Roadmap to Ruin" stand in stark contrast to the goals President Obama will present for our nation. The vast majority of Americans support preserving social safety nets, expanding educational opportunities for our children to be successful in the growing global economy and ensuring access to affordable health care for all - none of which are offered in Ryan's "Roadmap."
In the meantime, Media Matters reflects on the responses to these demonstrations taking place in Wisconsin. This media outlet cites Glenn Beck’s pronouncements, made on February 16. on his Fox News Show where Beck compared protests in Wisconsin with those in the Middle East and Mexico, describing these as part of "evil spreading around the globe.
Labor history opens the door to what happened before unions developed. People worked for low wages in sweatshops, under harsh conditions. They worked from dawn to dusk. When the depression came, companies demanded more or let the workers go. This sent men by the thousands into the streets, where they wandered looking for jobs. It was, of course, mostly men those days, with women supporting the efforts. They met together, forming groups to challenge corporations. While history records corruption in some of these unions, historians tell us unionization meant a ticket to the middle class, if not for the worker than for his son or daughter he could eventually send to college.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/303788#ixzz1EJkQO6OG

 

[rareboy]

Nice to see the union thugs protest so peacefully

Yes.

Waving a sign is a peaceful form of protest.

What are you missing here?

I can't imagine that you could be inferring that the man holding this sign is outside his legal rights or that is doing anything other than peacefully exercising his right to have his opinion heard.

And of all the comparisons to Hitler, the one about the destruction of organized labour and the threat to basically seize power by fiat is way more apt than any of the nonsense that your high priest of whackhead, Glenn Beck offers up.

Go ahead. Try and spin this any way you want.

But by the way.

I'll bet that a lot of FOX viewers are retired union members themselves. The rhetoric of branding unionized labourers as thugs is not going to play well.

It could cost the repubs and their propoganda channel a lot of support if they don't get their tongues lashed real quick.

 

[chrisrobin]

They all literally got on a bus and left



ALL ABOARD! Next stop, Cowardville!

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/116390569.html

One man's cowardice is another man's courage.

 

[jackoroe]

Yes.

Waving a sign is a peaceful form of protest.

What are you missing here?

I can't imagine that you could be inferring that the man holding this sign is outside his legal rights or that is doing anything other than peacefully exercising his right to have his opinion heard.

And of all the comparisons to Hitler, the one about the destruction of organized labour and the threat to basically seize power by fiat is way more apt than any of the nonsense that your high priest of whackhead, Glenn Beck offers up.

Go ahead. Try and spin this any way you want.

But by the way.

I'll bet that a lot of FOX viewers are retired union members themselves. The rhetoric of branding unionized labourers as thugs is not going to play well.

It could cost the repubs and their propoganda channel a lot of support if they don't get their tongues lashed real quick.

That you can't even condemn this sign speaks volumes. That's truly sad.