On Topic Discussion 2 yo boy killed by alligator at Disney

[BillyT]

The precise sort of reaction that results directly from people feeling entitled to exclusive use of natural landscape which does, shockingly to humans, have a native ecosystem independent of their sense of entitlement to safe recreation in uncontrolled landscapes.

Absolutely the only upside is that I'm not aware that alligators in Florida are in any way endangered to my knowledge, but that wouldn't stop this reaction even if they were.

They are not endangered, we have hunting season Mid August to November 1.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

You'd think having a gator come out of the water and chasing people would be enough to decide to make your beach safe for your guests.

You'd think adults would take responsibility for themselves but no, y'all want a big nanny state.

 

[xbuzzerx]

They are not endangered, we have hunting season Mid August to November 1.

Aware of that. I said even if they were endangered, the reaction would be the same. Sharks and others face the same kind of reaction which stems not from they are where they shouldn't be, but from people making assumptions that open air landscapes are safe theme park locales for them.

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You'd think having a gator come out of the water and chasing people would be enough to decide to make your beach safe for your guests.

How do you do that in Florida? They get into fenced backyards. They get into swimming pools. They get into just about any body of water if they really have a mind to do so.

Or are we just making pronouncements with no need of any connection to practical solutions?

 

[Alistair]

Aware of that. I said even if they were endangered, the reaction would be the same. Sharks and others face the same kind of reaction which stems not from they are where they shouldn't be, but from people making assumptions that open air landscapes are safe theme park locales for them.

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How do you do that in Florida? They get into fenced backyards. They get into swimming pools. They get into just about any body of water if they really have a mind to do so.

Or are we just making pronouncements with no need of any connection to practical solutions?

Then don't have a lagoon and a beach at a family theme park. It's not that hard to come up with practical solutions. It's easy to argue about but what's your practical solution? How do you suggest we (I'll use Hillary's it takes a village theme) help protect children from being killed besides saying the parents need to be smarter?

 

[palemale]

Aware of that. I said even if they were endangered, the reaction would be the same. Sharks and others face the same kind of reaction which stems not from they are where they shouldn't be, but from people making assumptions that open air landscapes are safe theme park locales for them.

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How do you do that in Florida? They get into fenced backyards. They get into swimming pools. They get into just about any body of water if they really have a mind to do so.

Or are we just making pronouncements with no need of any connection to practical solutions?

It seems a little strange, though, to have a beach at a lake where swimming isn't permitted. They should at least put an under water fence in front of the beach so that the alligators can't ambush anyone standing at the water's edge. Alligators and crocodiles can sneak up to the waters edge and be unseen. If there was an underwater fence that extended only a few feet out horizontally on the surface of the lake, this couldn't happen.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Then don't have a lagoon and a beach at a family theme park. It's not that hard to come up with practical solutions. It's easy to argue about but what's your practical solution? How do you suggest we (I'll use Hillary's it takes a village theme) help protect children from being killed besides saying the parents need to be smarter?

Should resorts have to be more than x miles away from lakes, rivers and streams and oceans? Should all hotels in the state of Florida be forbidden to have swimming pools, as well?

If you're putting all responsibility on people hosting out of town guests and zero on people who disregard signs, these are fair questions that WILL come up again next time something like this happens.

To answer your question: if parents disregard things TELLING THEM THIS IS NOT SAFE, and take toddlers in, I don't see what can be done. The fact that people birthed children and then take them into wild or natural environments against advisories not to do so is not something I have any solution to fix. This kid could have been pulled on a bodyboard in 3 feet of surf by his dad holding him by the hands and eaten by a bull shark. That is a possibility when you enter a natural environment. There is no 100% way to prevent it and the EXPECTATION that there OUGHT TO BE is what encourages parents like the ones in this situation to wave their hands and go "ehh we'll be fine" and create this kind of situation in the first place.

 

[Alistair]

Should resorts have to be more than x miles away from lakes, rivers and streams and oceans? Should all hotels in the state of Florida be forbidden to have swimming pools, as well?

If you're putting all responsibility on people hosting out of town guests and zero on people who disregard signs, these are fair questions that WILL come up again next time something like this happens.

So what's your suggest? Funny I keep answering your questions, you just add more stipulations and don't answer mine.

So, again, what's your suggestion?

 

[xbuzzerx]

So what's your suggest? Funny I keep answering your questions, you just add more stipulations and don't answer mine.

So, again, what's your suggestion?

I did answer you. But you're asking a flawed question. You are operating from an assumption that keeping parents who make decisions against safety warnings from being able to bring harm to their child is a realistic goal. That's literally impossible. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, certainly not when you are stepping into an environment or a body of water open to nature and the local ecosystem.

 

[Alistair]

I did answer you. But you're asking a flawed question. You are operating from an assumption that keeping parents who make decisions against safety warnings from being able to bring harm to their child is a realistic goal. That's literally impossible. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, certainly not when you are stepping into an environment or a body of water open to nature and the local ecosystem.

I'll completely agree with that. But did there need to be a beach there? Could that not have been a grass area, with a small rock wall separating the water? There's a lot of ifs and buts in this thread, but it's still a tragedy that could have been avoided by the parents, and by Disney.

The story of the alligator coming out of the water and chasing people a week earlier is what's making me so mad at Disney. I think it put on them a liability they should have adressed immediately.

 

[luckynumbah7]

The story of the alligator coming out of the water and chasing people a week earlier is what's making me so mad at Disney. I think it put on them a liability they should have adressed immediately.

Yeah, that's....telling. Management should've really been on top of that. It's a huge company with a lot of money, they can't claim to have had an issue with finding or paying wildlife search and removal. They could've at least cordoned off/closed the beach areas until it could be dealt with.

 

[palemale]

Seems like a fair suggestion. Although, putting it into the context of this situation... it wouldn't change if people choose to disregard existing warnings that water is unsafe and take toddlers in anyway.

Just saw this story on the Huffington Post: http://www.thewrap.com/gator-attack...-staffer-asked-for-fence-at-lagoon-exclusive/

Seems the employees of the resort had the same idea I have.

 

[mikey3000]

They are all over the state. They routinely get into bodies of water and even backyard swimming pools.

I'm sorry but where do you mistakenly believe this is somehow either in dispute or not widespread knowledge?



The child died because parents disregarded signs forbidding swimming in a body of water clearly marked that it was not safe for swimming in a state known for dangerous predators in the water.

Man, give your head a fucking shake again. It was Disneyworld ( https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/resorts/grand-floridian-resort-and-spa/ ). They entice tourists from all over the world and most don't expect alligators in a hotel lagoon. Duh. Of course Disney has an obligation to warn their customers of any serious threat to their safety, especially when they invite said customers to, "frolic on the white-sandy beaches right out the front door." Man, some of you guys amaze me. Such hatred towards parents and children. Everything has to be such a fucking battle. [Text: Removed] It really is getting annoying.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I'll completely agree with that. But did there need to be a beach there? Could that not have been a grass area, with a small rock wall separating the water? There's a lot of ifs and buts in this thread, but it's still a tragedy that could have been avoided by the parents, and by Disney.

I agree that "manmade lakes" and rivers are dumb. For the most part, it's wasteful luxurious spending of money on something that, at best, is just for tourists, and at worst, disrupts local ecology or waterways or whatever else. Who knows what the long term ecological effects of the UAE building artificial islands and coastlines is.

The story of the alligator coming out of the water and chasing people a week earlier is what's making me so mad at Disney. I think it put on them a liability they should have adressed immediately.

Agree. That obviously was a pretty big red flag. That being said? If they had a brain in their heads, they knew the lake was not a place to let their 2 year old wade into at 9:30pm at night when it was dark and signs clearly marked that it wasn't safe. The sign didn't warn them specifically of gators but I can imagine a half dozen other ways the kid could have died that same night in that same situation with no gator and all for exactly the same reason. His parents decided safety warnings were just guidelines.

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Man, give your head a fucking shake again. It was Disneyworld ( https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/resorts/grand-floridian-resort-and-spa/ ). They entice tourists from all over the world and most don't expect alligators in a hotel lagoon. Duh. Of course Disney has an obligation to warn their customers of any serious threat to their safety, especially when they invite said customers to, "frolic on the white-sandy beaches right out the front door." Man, some of you guys amaze me. Such hatred towards parents and children. Everything has to be such a fucking battle. [Text: Removed]

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[pat grimshaw]

Of course a Shark is arguing on behalf of the Alligators.

Sharks are like Pitbulls.They refuse to release their prey if they get anything in their jaws. You have to SHOOT them to release their locked jaws.

 

[mikey3000]

Of course a Shark is arguing on behalf of the Alligators.

Sharks are like Pitbulls.They refuse to release their prey if they get anything in their jaws. You have to SHOOT them to release their locked jaws.

Because they only have a one track mind and don't know anything else.

 

[peeonme]

What I see in this thread is a lot of transference, people think that mom and dad fucked up their lives, neglected, ignored and abused them, so every time an issue such as this or the gorilla getting shot comes up it's those irresponsible parents that are at fault.

If there are alligators in the lagoon then they pose a much greater threat than a drop off point (which you will find in many lakes)
Most people from Nebraska are aware of the dangers of drowning in water, so they didn't go swimming, they were wading, seemingly unaware of the dangers of alligators at the lagoon, had a simple sign been posted I am sure that they would have stayed clear of the lagoon altogether.

 

[Kahaih]

From a recent update/post on ABC news:

Lane Graves, was killed after a gator pulled him into the Seven Seas Lagoon at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa Tuesday night. The family had been enjoying the evening after watching an outdoor movie on the beach, Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings said in a press conference Wednesday.

Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings went on to say that no one was actually in the water at the time of the attack.

 

[dereperez]

Tragic and unfortunate for the kid to have such stupid and careless parents. Unlucky for him to be born into that family. They don't deserve to procreate.

 

[mikey3000]

Again, I can't imagine the horror those poor parents experienced. Their baby, gone. Instantly.

 

[johaninsc]

It seems a little strange, though, to have a beach at a lake where swimming isn't permitted. They should at least put an under water fence in front of the beach so that the alligators can't ambush anyone standing at the water's edge. Alligators and crocodiles can sneak up to the waters edge and be unseen. If there was an underwater fence that extended only a few feet out horizontally on the surface of the lake, this couldn't happen.

Disney used to allow swimming in the lagoon area, but stopped it in the 90s.

the beach areas lost a lot of business because of that.