On Topic Discussion Being Out and Proud offers little in return

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I was feeling insecure...
You might not love me anymore...
I was shivering inside...
I was shivering inside...
I didn't mean to hurt you
I'm sorry that I made you cry
I didn't want to hurt you...
I'm just a jealous guy...

 

[Soilwork]

The status quo is something the white gay mainstream will most definitely fight to protect. And they will do so at all costs! Housing discrimination, job discrimination, social isolation and of course dating. In some areas of the United States, this scenario has already come to pass. San Francisco anyone?

I'm a little confused by this comment... How do white gay men get blamed for the skyrocketing rents and cost of living in San Francisco?

Most of that is due to the huge influx of tech companies that aren't owned or (aside from Apple) run by white gay men.

I only live in SF part time but it's just as racially diverse as LA is. You go to the Eagle in both cities and half the guys there are Latino, there are quite a few black and Asian men. Yeah, there are a lot of us white guys there, too. I assume it's ok for us to go out and party, still?

 

[Telstra]

"I'm just a jealous guy... by John Lennon sums up this thread best.

 

[sixthson]

I know I am white and I know I am gay, but how do I find out if I am mainstream?

 

[Rex]

I'm only out to certain people.

I don't see the point to everyone I know, especially at work. All it does is create gossip fodder and I guarantee some people would view me differently for that reason alone.

 

[Taralen]

He does make a lot of good points whether you guys want to agree with it or not.

Coming out and being open as a minority gay isn't worth it, when you are better off in the closet or not really associating yourself with the gay culture or making it known.

Sometimes you don't really have a choice. Twinks and queens like myself whether we want to or not, are always gonna be branded gay.

I don't have to come out, I just have gay face, my voice and the facial expression I give come out for me.

I never officially came out to my family. They are extremely homophobic, and I have two lesbian cousins who sort of don't really discuss their relationship and are kinda shunned from the family. I was kicked out by my parents twice, but it wasn't over anything gay, or at least they didn't say it was.

I just brought my boyfriend who I later broke up with, to a family function one time, and ever since then, nobody pesters me about having a girlfriend or children.

But I always experience homophobia at work, (I work at Home Depot in customer service/warehousing part time, and I also do telemarketing for vacation planning.) and the straight guy friends I do have are all old married white men so I can definitely understand brother Kane's oppression.

If you aren't white, or a white passing or looking latino, you associating yourself with the gay community is purely based on luck, and even then it's mostly for the wrong reasons. I.e., it's 100% kink and fetish involved, they just want some BBC or the white guy wants a massage or something on a Friday night or something.

Plus most of it is our fault as well. These black gay video awards, atlanta black gay pride, and basically the fact in the black gay community, they strictly only date black or afro hispanic men is also bad. So there is a lot we need to work on.

I didn't forget about Michael Sam. I saw him working at Burger King the other day.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

I'm only out to certain people.

It's called "in the closet".

Coming out and being open as a minority gay isn't worth it, when you are better off in the closet or not really associating yourself with the gay culture or making it known.

This seems to be a circular argument.

 

[rareboy]

Coming out and being open as a minority gay isn't worth it, when you are better off in the closet or not really associating yourself with the gay culture or making it known.

Sometimes you don't really have a choice. Twinks and queens like myself whether we want to or not, are always gonna be branded gay.

Being a racial minority is no excuse.

What I don't get is this assumption that somehow all white homos have had the ready acceptance by family, friends, their communities, the state and the church for centuries or something.

I'm old enough to remember many of the marches and protests and pushing back in the late 60's, 70's and 80's when the force of public opinion and the laws were all against us. It was a long, hard and sometimes bitter and ugly struggle to overcome structural bias against us homos. And there were a lot of fierce black queens there with us. To be blunt, what I read in Kane's, Morrisey's and Taralen's posts is capitulation.

And Kane, it isn't your skin pigmentation that is the issue. It is your personality. Seriously. If you are half as bitter and unpleasant in real life as you are on-line...you are going to be rejected by anyone who is looking for joy. Take up yoga or something to get you outside of yourself and find some peace and purpose.

Get out there in your community and make a fucking difference. Maybe like some of us in the 70's, you are going to get knocked around and bruised and hassled but persistence and leading by example as proud and out homos won the day.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

He does make a lot of good points whether you guys want to agree with it or not.

Coming out and being open as a minority gay isn't worth it, when you are better off in the closet or not really associating yourself with the gay culture or making it known.

No, that's just a delusion.

 

[zombiekiller]

All I gotta say is I used to be out and proud and I lost a career job because of it. Afterward, I went back into the closet and nothing but good have been coming my way.

The thing about bigots is I'm not so much worried about the loud mouth ones who talk a lot of shit about gay people. It's the nice ones that always scare me. They blend right in with everybody else. When they strike, it won't be like the movies where everything is obvious and there's a paper trail where your heroic lawyer will be able to photocopy and you win the day and everybody will break out in thunderous applause in the courtroom when you win and all that crap. In the real world, the real smart bigots know exactly how to cost you your job without as much as a hint.

Am I a coward? Yes, absolutely. I have a house to pay for. I have a boyfriend to put through school. I have a career to pursue. I'm not going to risk any of it because I have to be out and proud. I don't want any trouble.

 

[rareboy]

^ Hopefully you aren't expecting praise or a medal. But thanks for helping to change the world for the better.

 

[zombiekiller]

And Kane, it isn't your skin pigmentation that is the issue. It is your personality. Seriously. If you are half as bitter and unpleasant in real life as you are on-line...you are going to be rejected by anyone who is looking for joy. Take up yoga or something to get you outside of yourself and find some peace and purpose.

What many people don't seem to understand is online personalities are a lot different than real life personalities.

Take my case, for example. Can we all agree that I'm not a very likable person here? At times, I can be immature and bitter. There are certain topics that I simply don't agree with what most of you seem to think. Some here have expressed their belief that I'm an outcast in real life and I don't work well with people.

I can assure you that this is not the case at all. In the real world, I'm actually pretty pleasant to deal with. I never raise my voice. I'm always aware of my surroundings and people's attitude for the day. I'm also very deep in the closet. Think of the guy at work that always agrees with everything you say, or at least smiles and nod while you blabber on and on about your life.

This is why it surprises me to see so many online detectives these days who seem to think they have a person's life completely figured out by what they post on here. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[zombiekiller]

^ Hopefully you aren't expecting praise or a medal. But thanks for helping to change the world for the better.

For me, it was devastating to have lost a good career job. What's worse was when I finally figured out what had been done to me. See, I never saw it coming. I didn't see it when it was happening. And I certainly had no idea after it happened.

To me, being out and proud versus in the closet has made a difference between losing a career job and sitting in my own office being a middle manager driving a company car that is brand new getting letters of commendation from supervisors about outstanding performances.

There are plenty of heros out there. Just let this coward be.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

What many people don't seem to understand is online personalities are a lot different than real life personalities.

I think people understand that people are going to perceive people a certain way through the internet that is not always correct, but if your personality is different on here then it is in real life, then you're lying on here.

 

[G-Lexington]

I'm only out to certain people.

I don't see the point to everyone I know, especially at work. All it does is create gossip fodder...

People gossip about things that are unknown, not things that are known. Nobody at work whispers to each other "Did you hear Lex broughta turkey sandwich for lunch today?" because everybody knwos I did. Nobody at work whispers "Did you know Lex is gay?" because everybody knows I am.

Lex

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Am I a coward? Yes, absolutely. I have a house to pay for. I have a boyfriend to put through school. I have a career to pursue. I'm not going to risk any of it because I have to be out and proud. I don't want any trouble.

So do plenty of out gay people and they do it.

 

[zombiekiller]

I think people understand that people are going to perceive people a certain way through the internet that is not always correct, but if your personality is different on here then it is in real life, then you're lying on here.

Nope, not lying. I react a certain way on here and a lot different in real life. All the facts are true in both worlds. It's the way I react and talk that are different. In the real world, I keep most opinions to myself. On here, I let it all out.

Like how I ate cheese last night and totally forgot to take my milk pill before hand. Man, I ran to the bathroom half a dozen times. We were watching the other woman and I kept having to pause it.

 

[zombiekiller]

So do plenty of out gay people and they do it.

I understand that many out gay people are successful. And it is entirely possible that what I experienced was a fluke.

That said, right now we are a 1 income household. I'm certainly not going to risk losing everything because I have to be out and proud.

It may surprise some people on here, but bigots come in all shapes and sizes just like gay people. There are the nut cases, the out and proud, and the closet ones. I don't care about the nut cases and the out and proud. It's the closet bigots that keep me up at night. Some of them are in positions of power, and you never know it until AFTER the strike.

 

[sixthson]

Agreed! How did I miss this comment? The status quo is something the white gay mainstream will most definitely fight to protect. And they will do so at all costs! Housing discrimination, job discrimination, social isolation and of course dating. In some areas of the United States, this scenario has already come to pass. San Francisco anyone?

As I said before, I can't argue with your life experiences. They are yours, not mine. I'm sure you wouldn't fully understand my life experiences and how they have helped to form my opinions, some good, some not so good.
While I agree that your attitude here often appears to be angry and in-your-face, my response to it has been to wonder how you have been hurt. People respond differently to hurt. Some internalize it and damage only themselves. Others lash out in anger and confrontation. Online, we often only see one side of others if that is all they offer to us.

If that is you in your avatar, then I am sure you have no problem attracting guys. Unfortunately, that is not enough, unless you only want sex. But you are not implying that with your post. Everyone has to filter through the motives of those who show interest in us. If you want a relationship with someone, you won't know if that is what the other guy wants until you get to know him. Having sex before getting to know someone proves nothing, other than the ability to have sex.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it seems like the changes you need in your life are within you and not with others. You can't change them, you can only change yourself. I truly wish you the best and I believe you can do it. I know that you are an intelligent man and have the ability to do that.

 

[Soilwork]

I can't help but notice that both Kane and Jayqueer both have stopped posting.

...And both of them went out with a bit of a blaze of glory after posting aggressive, racially charged threads and members wouldn't have it, rose up against them and - it would seem - chased them away.

My faith in JUB every so often gets restored when I see people here standing up to the intentionally baiting posts. JayQueer's thread trying to stir up racist animosity with his thread about black men and police and then this one trying to dump on white gay men who aren't in the closet.

Good on you all, JUB.