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Bradley Manning [merged]

Should Bradley Manning Get the Death Penalty?


  • Total voters
    47
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

Reminds me of the ARA member (hey, I watch Gangland - it interests me) that decided to come out as a woman as he was going to jail.

I don't know if he'll get to change his sex now that he's going away for a long time.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

Seriously guys this is not new, its been well documented for a while that SHE has struggled with HER gender identity.

Stop being so transphobic and get your fucking pronouns right!
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

So at what point will she become female for you? And why is it up to you?
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

Thanks. I rarely venture into The Forbidden Zone, as those people who peel off their masks and worship cobalt-salted bombs are creepy. :lol:

On a slightly more serious tack, I think it deserves Hot Topics exposure, as the political aspect is secondary to his transgenderism at this point.

Agreed, entirely.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

There will be an appeal which might suggest that the gender reassignment issue might well be a smoke screen to garner sympathy, and a lighter sentence....just a guess.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

Aye America really loves transgender people right!
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

I guess I will bail out here, I thought this was meant to be a safe space for GBT people but clearly as I am constantly reminded gay spaces are only for those born with a cock...
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

No but a safe space should bloody allow for people not to have their gender decided by others on grounds that have no basis in science. Their is no "only gay in the village" mentality to this, its just a case of offering enough respect and understand so as to use the correct pronouns and gender when talking about or to someone.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

The whole hypersensitivity about transgenderism is its own enemy. Making the rest of society out to be villains is just wrongheaded.

When sharing a drink with a transgender person in a gay bar I have never felt awkward, hypersensitive, or repulsed for their characteristics as a human being remain unchanged... preferring to focus on those issues that I share in common.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

I never liked the name I was given at birth. It never seemed right, and I never enjoyed being called by that name. When I got to college, I asked everybody to call me a different name. That was easily done, as nearly all of them had never met me before. A couple people in college knew me in high school, and occasionally slipped up and called me by my real name, but for the most part, they joined in by calling me by my chosen name. Even my parents and older friends have slowly come around to calling me by that name.

The one sole exception in my life is my sister-in-law. She proclaimed soon after meeting me that she thought my chosen name was "dumb", and she chose to only call me by my birth name - a practice she's continued for over a decade. And it's a practice that keeps me from really liking her as much as I could. Even when she treats me well in other regards, her refusal to call me what I wish to be called annoys me greatly.

Because of this, I have no issue with the idea of calling transgendered people by their chosen names and pronouns. Although I can't claim any special insight into being trans, I do at least know the frustration of trying to get people to call you what you wish to be called. And I've experienced the power trips of those who refuse to do so - all well-grounded in the rationale of "hey, I'm just calling you what YOU REALLY ARE. You SAY you're this, but REALLY YOU'RE NOT. I'm simply KEEPING IT REAL."

In short, the second I learn somebody's transgendered, I can swap to their desired name and pronoun pretty quick. :)

Mind you, I don't "get" transgenderism. I'm cis - I don't quite understand how it feels to be the wrong gender. But I can accept. I can accept that they know what's going through their heads better than I do. Just as many straight guys don't "get" what it's like to lust after other guys, but I hope they can accept that I do - that I'm not just confused, or "need some good pussy" to get me over it. I know and have met a couple transgendered people, and I've watched their fear and struggle and set-backs. It's not an easy path at all, and I admire them for following it.

There are a couple well-known transgendered folks. Wendy Carlos, Renee Richards, Laura Jane Grace from Against Me! Generally easily ignored, though, and I think that's how society likes it. And why we're more OK to focus on Manning. Many of us already don't like her, so she's already set up for ridicule. I've already heard it all, I think. "Womanning". "He's doing this so he can be the prison bitch." "Using my hard-earned tax dollars so he can play housewife." Not that I think she's automatically a great or even OK person simply by virtue of being transgendered - I'm totally fine with people thinking she's a security threat and should rot in jail. But using her transgenderism as the main point of ridicule is just as uncool as finding out she were a gay male, and suggesting she did everything because she wanted to be prison-raped for the next three decades.

Lex
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

I'm totally fine with people thinking she's a security threat and should rot in jail. But using her transgenderism as the main point of ridicule is just as uncool as finding out she were a gay male, and suggesting she did everything because she wanted to be prison-raped for the next three decades.

Lex

Nicely expressed, and to the point.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

As long as he doesn't expect the taxpayers to pay for his transition. He will be costing enough over 35 years, as it is.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

Seriously guys this is not new, its been well documented for a while that SHE has struggled with HER gender identity.

Stop being so transphobic and get your fucking pronouns right!

I didn't realize I was being transphobic for referring to HIM as a MAN because I didn't have the information that SHE was a WOMAN until AFTER SHE was going to JAIL.

Get off your FUCKING high horse.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

So you just replied to a thread with the title "Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment" and did not realise she was a women?
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

He's a man, and all the operations in the world cannot change that.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

The lack of a thread about the revelation is a comment on JUB. The entire world is agog with the news, but JUB is avoiding it.

. . . . . .

Maybe because there are still a lot of people out there who believe that every gay man in the world wants to be, or actually is, a woman.



And, too, isn't the subject in this thread a convicted criminal - a well-documented manipulative liar? At this point, is anyone obliged to believe, or care about, anything he has to say - about anything?
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

I never liked the name I was given at birth. It never seemed right, and I never enjoyed being called by that name. When I got to college, I asked everybody to call me a different name. That was easily done, as nearly all of them had never met me before. A couple people in college knew me in high school, and occasionally slipped up and called me by my real name, but for the most part, they joined in by calling me by my chosen name. Even my parents and older friends have slowly come around to calling me by that name.

The one sole exception in my life is my sister-in-law. She proclaimed soon after meeting me that she thought my chosen name was "dumb", and she chose to only call me by my birth name - a practice she's continued for over a decade. And it's a practice that keeps me from really liking her as much as I could. Even when she treats me well in other regards, her refusal to call me what I wish to be called annoys me greatly.

Because of this, I have no issue with the idea of calling transgendered people by their chosen names and pronouns. Although I can't claim any special insight into being trans, I do at least know the frustration of trying to get people to call you what you wish to be called. And I've experienced the power trips of those who refuse to do so - all well-grounded in the rationale of "hey, I'm just calling you what YOU REALLY ARE. You SAY you're this, but REALLY YOU'RE NOT. I'm simply KEEPING IT REAL."

In short, the second I learn somebody's transgendered, I can swap to their desired name and pronoun pretty quick. :)

Mind you, I don't "get" transgenderism. I'm cis - I don't quite understand how it feels to be the wrong gender. But I can accept. I can accept that they know what's going through their heads better than I do. Just as many straight guys don't "get" what it's like to lust after other guys, but I hope they can accept that I do - that I'm not just confused, or "need some good pussy" to get me over it. I know and have met a couple transgendered people, and I've watched their fear and struggle and set-backs. It's not an easy path at all, and I admire them for following it.

There are a couple well-known transgendered folks. Wendy Carlos, Renee Richards, Laura Jane Grace from Against Me! Generally easily ignored, though, and I think that's how society likes it. And why we're more OK to focus on Manning. Many of us already don't like her, so she's already set up for ridicule. I've already heard it all, I think. "Womanning". "He's doing this so he can be the prison bitch." "Using my hard-earned tax dollars so he can play housewife." Not that I think she's automatically a great or even OK person simply by virtue of being transgendered - I'm totally fine with people thinking she's a security threat and should rot in jail. But using her transgenderism as the main point of ridicule is just as uncool as finding out she were a gay male, and suggesting she did everything because she wanted to be prison-raped for the next three decades.

Lex

I completely agree with what you've written.

Many years ago, I decided to become completely anonymous online so that eventually nobody could find the real me online. There was a tarantula hobbyist forum that I was a part of. I knew many people there, and I had met up with some of them. We even took a trans-state trip together to a tarantula convention, so we knew each other pretty well.

So, when one of them started calling me by my real name on the forum, I politely asked him to please call me by my username instead. He said why? He was just calling me by my real name. I asked him again, through PM, to please call me by my username. The next day when I woke up, he had plastered my full name everywhere on the forum. He also plastered my full name plus pictures on a couple other forums and posted links to them, linking each the different forums together. I decided to just ignore it.

Well, a couple weeks later, someone I knew emailed me telling me he had since posted my full name, location, pictures, and personal information on half a dozen other websites that I didn't know about.

There are people in this world that really get a kick out of hurting others and getting away with it. As soon as they know they can do something to hurt someone else, like calling them by a certain pronoun or name, they will do it just so they could hurt.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

So you just replied to a thread with the title "Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment" and did not realise she was a women?

Reread what I just wrote.
 
Re: Bradley Manning, convicted of WikiLeaks disclosures, announces desire for gender reassignment

To Lex's point, his older relatives may always think of him by his birth name. Hell, parents have to remember to introduce their married children by their new names, so it doesn't follow that thinking of him as Leo or Reginald or whatever, is disrespect. They call him Lex, no matter how their brains fire. His sister-in-law is another thing entirely. She's made it her mission to be a dick and irritate him because she could.

I never considered my parents or my old friends to be dicks when they called me by my birth name by accident. And I think most transgendered people are quite aware that it's tough to immediately flip over to a new name and/or gender for anybody after years of being used to another. At least, the ones I know can accept the accidental use of an old name or pronoun if it's done out of habit.

But I don't feel your examples are apt in the slightest. In two of the cases, you've got people trying to "get away" with calling themselves something they don't "deserve" - the car dealer saying he's "honest", and the child saying he's been "good". In the third, you're talking about somebody displaying modesty. Now, let's throw my example into the mix, along with the transgendered person, and let's see if they sound at all similar.

"This child says he's been good, although obviously he hasn't been, so I'm going to continue to call him bad."
"This guy wants to be called Lex, although obviously that isn't his name, so I"m going to continue to call him his birth name."
"This person says she's a man, although obviously she isn't one, so I'm going to continue to call her a woman."

"This singer says she's just OK, but honestly, anybody who's paying attention can see she's a virtuoso."
"This guy says he goes by 'Lex', but honestly, anybody who's paying attention can discover that's not his name."
"This person says he's a woman, but honestly, anybody who's paying attention can see he's a man."

The top sentence in each follows your examples, and I've applied it best I could to the both a transgendered person and to my own situation. I don't see anybody really having an issue with the top sentences - one might ARGUE that the child is was good or the singer mediocre, but they wouldn't have issues with you making your assertions. The second sentence involves me and my name. And notice in this case, the sentences sound a lot more dickish. Because you're no longer arguing against factual things ("the child was misbehaving") or even generic opinions ("I think she's a great singer"), but about how I've expressed I wish to be conveyed to the world. And you're actively arguing against that. "You don't get to choose your name - no matter what nickname you choose, no matter if you change it on your drivers license or birth certificate, you will always be (birth name)."

Whether the third one is more like the first or the second example, I guess, depends on how you view gender. To most people, it's a simple either/or. If you got the dangly bits, you're a man. If you got a hoo-ha, you're a woman. And if you go do hormone therapy or transgender surgery, to many people, you're not suddenly the other gender. You're a man with a hatchet wound, or a woman with a stapled-on penis - end of story.

But as far as I'm concerned, gender is a lot more than that. It's far more between the ears, not between the legs. And it's not as simple as "accepting your factory-installed equipment," or "why don't you just be gay?". The transgendered people I know didn't think it'd be "fun" to be the other gender, because "you get to wear fancy clothes" or "you get to belch at baseball games". Their brains are specifically wired another way. They ARE the other gender, and somehow got the wrong factory equipment. And I often see people acting like gender reassignment is like slipping on a jacket. It's not. It's a process that takes years, that is painfully slow, and usually exceptionally awkward. For years, they usually end up looking somewhere in between. The breasts show up but the deep voice and facial hair is still there, say. And they're stuck either trying to act like a guy with breasts, or like a woman with facial hair and a bosso profundo. Many if not most will lose friends, family members, and jobs - far more often than gays or lesbians do. And this all to get to an undetermined place. They don't know if they'll look "good" at the tail end, or even if they'll be able to easily pass for their true gender when all is said and done. And even after all this, people seem to think they're doing it so they can ogle guys or girls in the fucking bathroom...

Lex
 
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