Bradley Manning [merged]

[kallipolis]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

The issue is not one of Manning being gay or of being feminine (which to the best of my knowledge he is not) rather of inadvertently providing a valuable service to the United States by exposing the security flaws of The United States Army's communications network - corrected as a result of Manning's hacking exposing the security failings - enabling Manning access to the computer files of the State Department which he downloaded and transferred to Wikileaks.

The State Department and The Department of Defense were severely embarrassed that a private soldier serving in the United States Army provided a valuable service for the United States exposing the security failings in the communications networks of two very important government departments ....for which service Manning is being rewarded with allegations of treasonable activity.

Can one imagine one would have been the consequences had Chinese hackers or Russian hackers or Al Qaeda hackers identified the flaws that Manning exposed?

I believe that Manning deserves a medal, cash bonus and employment as a consultant advising the United States Army or the State Department how best to protect their communications networks from hacking by the enemies of the United States currently doing a very good job of accessing highly secret files on various United States weapons systems and weapons delivery platforms.

The generals and other high ranking civil servants are much too embarrassed to learn from their own soldiers especially privates. Take a glance at this article and wonder why Manning's services are not being used:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/..._u-s-missile-defenses-weapons-combat-aircraft

 

[palbert]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

His being gay is totally irrelevant to how I view his actions.

 

[rareboy]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

I dunno.

Are you sympathetic to Manning because he's a homo? Maybe. Does it really matter much though? If you are sympathetic, that is your personal prerogative. Just as it is okay for those who are not sympathetic to feel either nothing for him or revulsion for what he did.

If he were straight, would you care about what he did? Surely you can answer that simple question.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

No quarter.

Diplomacy is nullified when private communications are violated. The virtue of diplomacy is self-evident when compared to the expense and death of war.

His act was spiteful and evil. Punish him appropriately.

Exposing security flaws in the Army and State Department's communications networks?

Chinese hackers continue to explore more possibilities with their hacking activities producing valuable data.

The new Chinese air force stealth fighter was copied from hacked documents. Guess from where?

I believe that Manning should be released immediately and offered full time employment by the DOD as a consultant to assist reduce the incidence of hacking by the enemies of the United States.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

To the contrary, it is not the place of one individual to contravene the policies of privacy and security based upon his own discretion.

That it had the ancillary effect of exposing a breach in the system is not the issue.

His act was both arbitrary and arrogant. I don't want an individual to take a nuclear weapon and lob it either, no matter what weakness it reveals in the security protocols surrounding access to nukes.

Following your reasoning it could be argued that George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson et al treason against their king and government was also arbitrary and arrogant.....In my opinion Manning acted in the best interests of the United States and should be suitably rewarded with employment to assist the DOD resist the ongoing successful hacking expeditions of the enemies of the United States.

 

[bankside]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

Exposing security flaws in the Army and State Department's communications networks?

Chinese hackers continue to explore more possibilities with their hacking activities producing valuable data.

The new Chinese air force stealth fighter was copied from hacked documents. Guess from where?

I believe that Manning should be released immediately and offered full time employment by the DOD as a consultant to assist reduce the incidence of hacking by the enemies of the United States.

He didn't expose the flaws, he exploited them.
He didn't hack into a system using his computing prowess and then disclose the methods to his government to prevent enemy attack. He just downloaded everything he had access to onto a stick and then shared it with friend and foe alike. I suppose it will absolutely reduce the incidence of "chinese hacking" because thanks to Manning they can just google it.
He wasn't a "whistleblower." He didn't find some specific example of wrongdoing and expose it because it was the right thing to do, he just did a document dump on the assumption something juicy would be there. A whistleblower might still claim to be a good soldier. But that would have required him to know what he was releasing.

I can't say I have respect for him at all.

That being said, I am still glad the information is available to make use of in improving government in many countries around the world, and revealing things which, inadvertently, should have been revealed.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

He didn't expose the flaws, he exploited them.
He didn't hack into a system using his computing prowess and then disclose the methods to his government to prevent enemy attack. He just downloaded everything he had access to onto a stick and then shared it with friend and foe alike. I suppose it will absolutely reduce the incidence of "chinese hacking" because thanks to Manning they can just google it.
He wasn't a "whistleblower." He didn't find some specific example of wrongdoing and expose it because it was the right thing to do, he just did a document dump on the assumption something juicy would be there. A whistleblower might still claim to be a good soldier. But that would have required him to know what he was releasing.

I can't say I have respect for him at all.

That being said, I am still glad the information is available to make use of in improving government in many countries around the world, and revealing things which, inadvertently, should have been revealed.

Do you really believe that had Manning approached his superiors he would have been rewarded with a lolly pop thanking him for his concerns for the security of his nation's secrets? He probably would have been arrested on the spot and incarcerated immediately for daring to expose the security flaws in the Army's and State Department's communications networks leaving the enemies of the United States to access the files which Manning had discovered.

Of course Manning was a whistle blower ensuring that his hacking activities and discoveries were not buried by military red tape for fear of embarrassing the general staff Manning transferred the information to Wikileaks exposing the Army's and State Department's desperately inadequate security of their respective communications networks thereby guaranteeing changes patching the flaws...obviously not sufficient for Chinese hackers continue to hack and hack highly secret military hardware for use by the Chinese military.... laughable and the powers that be want to imprison Manning for treason.....

 

[rm71182]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

I dunno.

Are you sympathetic to Manning because he's a homo? Maybe. Does it really matter much though? If you are sympathetic, that is your personal prerogative. Just as it is okay for those who are not sympathetic to feel either nothing for him or revulsion for what he did.

If he were straight, would you care about what he did? Surely you can answer that simple question.

So that's my point -- I would not feel the same sympathy if he were straight. And that's completely, utterly *wrong* -- I'm not trying to justify it in any way! The point of my post is a psychological one: that you can (irrationally) find yourself having sympathy for someone who's committed a crime, simply because they happen to be a member of the same minority group as you.

I've always prided myself as being fair/neutral, and so it came as something of a shock that I could be led to sympathy, knowing full well that someone's sexual orientation shouldn't have anything to do with it. I guess it's something subconscious (like how certain tests can reveal hidden racial biases). But I don't support or advocate for him.

 

[palbert]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

I'm unaware of Mr. Manning being elected and representing a constituency or the will of the people. Did he lead in a battle, lay down new civil law, or serve as the ambassador of the people to the Court of St. James?

The patriots you cited did not act as rogue individuals, but as those in league with others in a revolution.

Far from an act of heroism and bravery, Mr. Manning acted in secret and cowardice.

And which has imperiled the national security of the US exactly how? I have seen some embarrassing correspondence and that's about it. This is not John Walker. It is Pentagon Papers Redux.

Yes he broke the law, oath, and salute, so jail him. But this spectacle of justice we don't need.

 

[swerve]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

I find this thread somewhat troubling...

Perhaps, because I see him as a HERO...

In ALL definitions of the word...

Albeit squirrelly, underhanded, and deceptive -- he did in his OWN way, while at the place he found himself, the BEST he could to get OUR country back on track...

It turned out pretty AWFUL for him -- but, at least he tried!!!






p.s. his sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with his situation...

 

[swerve]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

Oh -- and to those advocating privacy and secrecy...

SHAME ON YOU!!!

I want an OPEN government with FULL transparency!!!

 

[palbert]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

That's exactly the point. Because diplomatic messages are private, we don't know the effect of the disclosures.

We don't have to form a torch-wielding mob, but I'm not suggesting that.

He is a criminal. No glory. Just a plain case, not a cause.

I have a great deal of difficulty with this vaunted private diplomacy. The effect you speak of generally redounds upon us in a negative fashion. I would rather know what the diplomatic corps is up to.

You needn't form another lynch mob. That would be superfluous to those already dedicated to what is clearly a cause.

In case you haven't noticed China has stolen more material vital to national security than Mr. Manning ever dreamed of.

You search for vipers in the wrong place.

 

[swerve]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

^I want to live in a world where EVERYTHING is OPEN and TRANSPARENT!!!

Didn't Obama PROMISE transparency???

I don't LIKE the status quo --





I won't accept that I WISH for TOO much...

 

[swerve]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

^opinterph and I actually aggressively work to TRY and make it the world we dream of...

Others work just as hard to oppose that dream...

For what end???

We're ALL humans and have to SHARE this planet...

Obama PROMISED transparency -- it WASN'T just a WISH -- so, yeah, I'm disappointed...

Oh -- And DJ -- I know that we agree WAY MORE than we disagree...

 

[refujiunderground]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

just because someone is gay doesn't mean that they can't be an asshole. there's too gay men that try to use the fact that they're gay to get away with being assholes. if they were straight, what excuse would they use then. i find it to be very disrespectful for a person who's gay to throw around the gay card when they fuck up or they know that they're wrong and use it as a reason to why they're getting prosecuted for something that they know where they're wrong. reminds me of this one guy back in my english class during my second semester of my Freshmen year of college where he was being a complete ass. dude didn't do his homework and would disrupt the class. the teacher kicks him out and what does he do? "you're getting on my case because i'm gay". STOP!

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

Exposing security flaws in the Army and State Department's communications networks?

Chinese hackers continue to explore more possibilities with their hacking activities producing valuable data.

The new Chinese air force stealth fighter was copied from hacked documents. Guess from where?

I believe that Manning should be released immediately and offered full time employment by the DOD as a consultant to assist reduce the incidence of hacking by the enemies of the United States.

He didnt do anything astonishing. He was given access to do his job and he perverted it into a wikileaks cause. He is a ignorant coward or he wouldnt be sitting where he is currently.

 

[bankside]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

He didnt do anything astonishing. He was given access to do his job and he perverted it into a wikileaks cause. He is a ignorant coward or he wouldnt be sitting where he is currently.

Oh, I think he would be sitting where he is currently even if he weren't an ignorant coward. Suppose he actually looked at what he was copying and found evidence of government breaking its own laws, something specific and concrete. He could have exposed the next Iran Contra affair, which would legitimately have been in the public interest. I think they would also have gone after him on every possible pretext, and he'd be sitting in jail as now. But then at least we could say he had character and defend him.

 

[refujiunderground]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

Oh, I think he would be sitting where he is currently even if he weren't an ignorant coward. Suppose he actually looked at what he was copying and found evidence of government breaking its own laws, something specific and concrete. He could have exposed the next Iran Contra affair, which would legitimately have been in the public interest. I think they would also have gone after him on every possible pretext, and he'd be sitting in jail as now. But then at least we could say he had character and defend him.

it really doesn't matter. plenty of people tried to expose the corruption of the government and they end up getting locked up forever or going out like gary webb. dude gets found dead in his house with two bullets in his head and they said that he killed himself. regardless of what were his reasons, he's not going to win. he's very lucky that they didn't kill him.

 

[kallipolis]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

He didnt do anything astonishing. He was given access to do his job and he perverted it into a wikileaks cause. He is a ignorant coward or he wouldnt be sitting where he is currently.

That Manning has been imprisoned without trial thus far, suggests that he did do something astonishing - sufficiently, astonishing to warrant allegations of treason.

Cowards never imperil their freedoms. If Manning were ignorant he would not be receiving the treatment that he is currently suffering.

 

[JayHawk]

Re: Am I sympathetic to Bradley Manning simply because he's gay?

Oh, I think he would be sitting where he is currently even if he weren't an ignorant coward. Suppose he actually looked at what he was copying and found evidence of government breaking its own laws, something specific and concrete. He could have exposed the next Iran Contra affair, which would legitimately have been in the public interest. I think they would also have gone after him on every possible pretext, and he'd be sitting in jail as now. But then at least we could say he had character and defend him.

No deep down you wish during the Bush administration he could have exposed the Iran Contra affair, and guess what?? when a soldier or Sailor exposes malfeasance then they are NOT placed in prison. It is their JOB to uphold the just orders they are given. Manning is a tool who was used, he has no honor, he has no value (gay or straight) and he should be shot to avoid the cost of feeding him.