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CA Prop 8 - news and alerts [updated & merged]

  • Thread starter Thread starter Soilwork
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Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

If the vote were this close with AGAINST being slightly ahead, do we think the other side would be conceding? They'd be bitching to get every vote counted, too.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

nice to see blacks voted for it by more than 60%. I hope everyone of them feels the sting of racism the rest of their lives.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

It's time to get passed this marriage business. We want marriage in order to to get "rights" that married people have. If we get the rights by calling it a civil union, who gives a shit? If you can't win on the proposition in CA, it ain't happening anywhere. Why do we keep having elections to prove a point if we lose every time we do it?

It's time to move on.

Like GL stated, it's about discrimination! It's about questioning and defying the prejudices that lie within people's mindsets. "All men are created equal" is supposed to be one of the very foundations of America...it's about making the country live up, like MLK said, to it's creed. It's about EVERYONE having the CHOICE to marry, or not, but they must have the choice.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

i give a shit. because it is DISCRIMINATION!!

i'm not the only one who gives a shit either. the over all number of people who voted against prop. 8 is not chicken feed you know. if you want to be a second class citizen then go right ahead.

It is only discrimination because married people derive a benefit from their status, not based on whom they sleep with. As a matter of law, you can sleep or form a partnership with whomever you like. The government shouldn't be in the business of encouraging any type of behavior via the tax system. Giving benefits to married people is wrong, straight or gay.

We haven't won this argument anywhere it has been made. We haven't won a right to marry anywhere it's been voted on. This strategy hasn't worked to our advantage and it's time to try something else.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

if it gave us all the rights of marriage, including the fact that one of my friends who has been with his partner for 10 years would have power of attorney over him and his estate without having to have 50 plus documents vs his family who cut off all ties with him but would swoop up in a heartbeat if something happens to him and take away all the property they've acquired because he's a stranger.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

I'll just copy and paste my qestions from another thread. I believe California still has Domestic Partnerships, can anyone tell me what rights and privileges that grant and don't grant, specifically what does marriage give that a domestic partnership can't. Also how easy is this to overturn, could another proposition reverse this a few years down the line.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

I'll just copy and paste my qestions from another thread. I believe California still has Domestic Partnerships, can anyone tell me what rights and privileges that grant and don't grant, specifically what does marriage give that a domestic partnership can't. Also how easy is this to overturn, could another proposition reverse this a few years down the line.

I'm not familiar with California's domestic partnership laws, but the sad fact is that even if Prop 8 had failed, the state still wouldn't have had full marriage. No state does. The Defense Of Marriage Act prohibits the Federal government from recognizing same-sex marriage. So, same-sex marriages performed in Massachusetts are only recognized there and the couples receive no Federal benefits such as tax breaks. State-recognized civil unions may provide the same benefits as marriage in a particular state, but until DoMA is overturned, no same-sex partnerships will be fully recognized.

Fortunately, President-elect Obama wants to overturn it...we just need the states to get off of their asses and end the fucking discrimination.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

So what happens to all the couples who were married?
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

^As you will not, Vanti, the right to marriage is not enumerated.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

I feel really bad right now :(

But, clearly America is not yet ready for gay marriage.... other countries have to take the lead. What are Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, etc waiting for legalizing same sex-marriage??? :confused:
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Andrew Sullivan on marriage:

The Right To Discriminate

Althouse makes marriage equality opponent Dean Broyles's argument clearer:

Let me see if I can make Broyles's point. I think he means to say that if same-sex marriage remains a legal right, enshrined in state constitutional law, then homosexual relationships will come to be regarded normal and good, and, consequently, anyone who objects to them will start to look like a bigot who should not be permitted to have his way. Thus, in order to preserve the right to discriminate against gay people and to keep schools from teaching children that gay couples are perfectly nice and so forth -- all things Broyles wants -- it's important to outlaw gay marriage, because it will be a powerful force in changing perceptions about gay people and those who think gay people are doing something terribly wrong.

Yes! That's it.

One reason I favor marriage equality is that the simple public fact of gay married couples will in itself teach something about the reality of gay people and our lives - without any school or parent having to say a thing. It gives us a way to talk about gay couples for the first time in human history without talking about sex acts. Now, there's nothing wrong with sodomy, in my view. But it no more defines gay people than it defines straight people (and straight people's sex lives are now overwhelmingly sodomitic in nature - i.e. non-reproductive).

Or to put it in a way that might appeal to social conservatives: grant marriage equality and we can stop talking about homosexuality. We can start talking about love and friendship and commitment and family - for gays and straights. We can leave this horrible identity politics division behind. To give one simple example. I have never sat down with my niece and nephew, who are nine and twelve, and told them I am gay. But they were both in our wedding, along with my husband's family's children. They see me and Aaron for who we are - all of us, defined by all we do and are. They know we are gay but we never had to say so. And there is nothing more moving than hearing my nephew talk of "uncle Aaron."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-right-to-di.html
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Give it time. The gay rights movement is still fairly new in the scheme of things. Give it time.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

This is, and should be a states rights issue. The CA Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional, so the voters have spoken and changed the constitution. By a 300,000 vote plurality.

Somebody here suggested a federal domestic partner or civil union recognition. Again, it's about the benefits of "marriage". If that's the way to get where we need to be, that would be fine as well.

It just seems foolish to keep running your head into the wall. Remember Einstien's definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

I say we put up a bigger fight.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

I'll just copy and paste my qestions from another thread. I believe California still has Domestic Partnerships, can anyone tell me what rights and privileges that grant and don't grant, specifically what does marriage give that a domestic partnership can't. Also how easy is this to overturn, could another proposition reverse this a few years down the line.

-The Domestic Partnership law in CA is found under Cal. Fam. Code §297.5
-Domestic Partnerships and insurance is found under Cal. Ins. Code §10121.7 and Cal. Ins. Code §381.5
-Domestic Partnerships and taxes is found under Cal R&T Code §18521d.

I cannot link you to Westlaw, but I'm sure you can find them on Findlaw or even through Google. Just in case you wanted to read the statutes. There may be more statutes involv. I just made a quick list.


Domestic Partnerships do in fact provide those same privileges and responsibilities of legal marriage and this is a sticking point for the vote Yes side (not to gay marriage). However, the Supreme Crt has already determined that Separate but equal isn't Constitutional. And isn't that what we have here? Well, the domestic partnership statute also allows hetero couples over 60 yrs of age to form domestic partnerships instead of getting married, so it's a hard sale.

Due to the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) no other state has to recognize CA domestic partnerships (or any same sex union regardless of its name). On the other hand, all states in the U.S. recognize hetero marriages.

The CA law can be repealed by another vote. Metta and other CA would be better able to answer that type of question. I really have no idea as to how their process works.

I expect to see this law challenged in the crts again. We'll have to wait and see. The 9th Circuit is very liberal, however, they are also the most overturned circuit (by the Supreme Crt) of all the circuits. The language of the prop. was very, very tricky. The name of the Prop. (especially in the beginning) was misleading. Also, the vote Yes side made blatant lies--lies about the law. The vote NO side may as well. If so, I sure didn't catch it and I believe I watched them all. Of course, I'm not the all knowing of CA law so it's possible that I missed something.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

Give it time. The gay rights movement is still fairly new in the scheme of things. Give it time.

Look at you, being all optimistic. I'm loving it! (*8*)
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

So what happens to all the couples who were married?

Their marriages are now nullified. It will be as though they never happened. These couples will have to apply for a Domestic Partnership again. They will have to change their information again. Social Security Cards, insurance info, that sort of thing.

However, the retroactive nullification of the marriages will be fought in the crts as well.
 
Re: CA Prop 8-Gay Marriage Ban - news and alerts

You are really missing the whole "equal" part, aren't you?

I pity you.


Thanks very much for the smarmy reply. Take the issue to court predicated on the measure being a violation of the Declaration of Independence. Let me know how you make out.

Think before you hit the send button!
 
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