Dharun Ravi Indicted in Tyler Clementi Suicide

[backpacker]

I'm more than a little tired of repeating that I'm not siding with Ravi. I'm just not frothing at the mouth about ruining his life more than it's already been ruined. Jail time serves absolutely NO purpose in this case.

The reality is that jail time does serve a purpose. There are many reasons why jail time is given out, including punishment and a deterrent to both Dharun and the public as a whole. Not only did Dharun invade the privacy of Tyler and M.B., but he destroyed evidence, fabricated false information to deceive and tampered with a witness. Those go to the heart of our justice system and needs to be punished appropriately. Additionally, the general public needs to know that interfering with the justice process is going to have serious consequences. The slap on the wrist sends the wrong message. Keep in mind, they were only able to recover part of the evidence that Dharun destroyed. We will never know the details of the other evidence he destroyed and how incriminating that evidence was. I don't think he needs to serve 10 years, but the minimum presumption of 5 years would be reasonable.

What's to stop other college students from spying on their roommates and making them an object of ridicule? They see all that Dharun received was a slap on the wrist. Where is the deterrent? What is to stop other people being investigated from destroying evidence and tampering with witnesses?

 

[Rolyo85]

Um, I don't know many college students who would think a month in prison, 300 hours of community service, $10 000 fine AND A CRIMINAL RECORD are a "slap on the wrist". The term was used here (first by me btw) in the context of comparing it to what the sentence might have been, but from the POV of an average guy with absolutely NO criminal record, the years of courts and this type of punishment would be life-altering. Like someone already said on the previous page, it is pretty clear that Dharun Ravi will never dare to do anything even remotely related to gay bashing in his life.

And the article I posted addresses the issue of what message is being sent. Yes, I would have liked for the sentence to be a bit harsher, but more jail time for a college guy with no previous criminal offense for the type of crime that Ravi committed to me is just bloodthirst and nothing more.

I already said what I think about the whole "tampering with evidence" terminology. I know it's necessary in the court, but let's call it for what it is here, ok?

 

[JB3]

Um, I don't know many college students who would think a month in prison, 300 hours of community service, $10 000 fine AND A CRIMINAL RECORD are a "slap on the wrist". The term was used here (first by me btw) in the context of comparing it to what the sentence might have been, but from the POV of an average guy with absolutely NO criminal record, the years of courts and this type of punishment would be life-altering. Like someone already said on the previous page, it is pretty clear that Dharun Ravi will never dare to do anything even remotely related to gay bashing in his life.

And the article I posted addresses the issue of what message is being sent. Yes, I would have liked for the sentence to be a bit harsher, but more jail time for a college guy with no previous criminal offense for the type of crime that Ravi committed to me is just bloodthirst and nothing more.

I already said what I think about the whole "tampering with evidence" terminology. I know it's necessary in the court, but let's call it for what it is here, ok?

And there's the fact that Ravi will almost certainly be deported when the 30 days is up. There's no way he'll be allowed to stay in the country.

 

[nondescript]

For an affluent family, a $10000 fine is nothing. And Ravi won't pay it - his doting, uncritical, enabling parents will.

As for the 30 days in jail - it seems unlikely that he will serve the full number of days behind bars.

I wasn't expecting decades in prison, but 30 days seems too far in the opposite direction.

 

[Rolyo85]

And there's the fact that Ravi will almost certainly be deported when the 30 days is up. There's no way he'll be allowed to stay in the country.

Why are you so certain? I am just curious, I don't know enough to have an opinion.

 

[Kulindahr]

And there's the fact that Ravi will almost certainly be deported when the 30 days is up. There's no way he'll be allowed to stay in the country.

He can't be deported when the 30 days end -- he was also given probation, like three years, and he has to be here for the court to determine that he's completed probation properly.

Besides that, everyone involved has recommended against deportation.

 

[backpacker]

He can't be deported when the 30 days end -- he was also given probation, like three years, and he has to be here for the court to determine that he's completed probation properly.

Besides that, everyone involved has recommended against deportation.

Any deportation is a federal proceeding and not bound by any state sentence. As a matter of policy, they typically defer deportation was someone is incarcerated. The recommendations may help his case, but the federal government isn't required to consider them. If they do consider them, they decide how much weight to give the recommendations.

The vast majority of the time, 15 felony convictions will get you deported. Dharun will appeal the convictions and any deportation hearings will likely be delay until the appeals are decided. That could take years as I suspect the bias law will be challenged and will end up in the New Jersey Supreme Court. If he can get the bias convictions overturned, he has a good chance of staying in the U.S.

I believe the strongest factor Dharun has on his side is that he has lived here since he was a toddler. As I understand it, they give consideration to that factor. As far as Dharun is concerned, he would essentially be deported to the foreign country. When this factor is combined with the determination that he isn't likely to re-offend, I think he will be able to stay in the U.S.

 

[nondescript]

I oppose prison rape, and would support efforts to protect all prisoners from sexual assault of any kind... however I must admit I am wondering what are the chances that Ravi will be raped or bashed in prison? Will he be protected from that sort of thing?

 

[Kulindahr]

I oppose prison rape, and would support efforts to protect all prisoners from sexual assault of any kind... however I must admit I am wondering what are the chances that Ravi will be raped or bashed in prison? Will he be protected from that sort of thing?

Prison systems rarely waste their time with 30-day sentencees. If they do, the individual remains in a holding or sorting/classification facility the whole time -- where conditions can be anything from pretty much solitary to bunkroom-type setups (I have no idea where to even look to see how NJ does it). More often, since he's probably been sitting in a county jail, they just let him keep sitting there for the thirty days.

 

[pat grimshaw]

...I am wondering what are the chances that Ravi will be raped ...

all those homosexual prisoners will want to take specific revenge against Ravi to express their umbrage at his lack of respect to their gay brother Tyler Clementi

 

[Kisuke]

I do think that the sentence was a bit too lenient for him. But I hope that he'll learn from this and grow.

 

[Kulindahr]

Learn from this and grow? Why the concern over Ravi? I don't have any concern for him. He should have showed more concern over Tyler instead of doing what he did. Oh and I think there is a strong case for deportation... he committed several criminal acts afterall.

Having a right-wing reactionary moment?

 

[Rolyo85]

Learn from this and grow? Why the concern over Ravi? I don't have any concern for him.

Yes, that was made abundantly clear time and again. Reference Kulindahr's post above mine.

 

[swmjck]

So I'm reading USA Today this morning. Their editorial debate is about this case. I start to read the opposing view penned by someone named Ross G. Kaminsky and was getting more and more upset as I read. Besides calling this a prank, he says "the 2nd tragedy is that the life of a 2nd young man will be ruined because of a prosecution that would not have occurred had Tyler Clementi not been gay". He further states "And nothing about Ravi suggests any more anti-gay "bias" on his part than among most of America's millions of other teenagers". Really? Wonder how Mr. Kaminsky would feel if a camera were set up somewhere on his property and his intimate moments videotaped and broadcast over the internet. I had no idea who this man was but at the end it says he is a senior fellow of the Heartland Institute and a columnist for the American Spectator. On this web site is a full column written by this genius regarding this subject. Just disgusting.

 

[nondescript]

all those homosexual prisoners will want to take specific revenge against Ravi to express their umbrage at his lack of respect to their gay brother Tyler Clementi

my line of thought was that he is young, middle class, naive about prison, and (arguably) kinda ok looking. I vaguely remember reading that men with those characteristics tend to be targeted for sexual assault and rapings in US prisons. Hence my concern.

 

[chance1]

Learn from this and grow? Why the concern over Ravi? I don't have any concern for him. He should have showed more concern over Tyler instead of doing what he did. Oh and I think there is a strong case for deportation... he committed several criminal acts afterall.

You're right that he should've showed more concern for Tyler - for sure - and he didn't

I would bet that if this situation were to arise again, he and many others who are aware of this case, would not proceed as he did

Showing concern is the morally right thing to do and warranted here - and given your other thoughts on other issues, I'm shocked you're not only so callous and unforgiving but looking for deportation

 

[backpacker]

I'm not saying it's right, but it's probably true that, had this case not become a national news story because of Clementi's suicide, it never would have traveled outside the dorm room (much less reached the level where we're talking about deportation).

if he hadn't jumped off a bridge, he could have requested a new roommate, moved on with his life, and Ravi probably would have been reprimanded by the college with some community service (and maybe a sensitivity class or two)

I witnessed worse invasions of privacy in my college career and can safely say that none of the offenders ever served jail time over passing around naked pictures of their ex's.

Sadly you there is good chance that the university would have tried to handle this internally and not notify the police. I have always felt that Tyler didn't feel the university was taking the matter seriously and that was probably the final straw. I didn't fully believe the testimony of the RA. I think there was some CYA going on by the university.

With regard to the comments about nude pics of an ex, as I understand it, in most jurisdictions that is not illegal if the ex consented to the pictures and was an adult when they were taken. Definitely a classless thing to do, but not illegal.

 

[evanrick]

Um, I don't know many college students who would think a month in prison, 300 hours of community service, $10 000 fine AND A CRIMINAL RECORD are a "slap on the wrist". The term was used here (first by me btw) in the context of comparing it to what the sentence might have been, but from the POV of an average guy with absolutely NO criminal record, the years of courts and this type of punishment would be life-altering. Like someone already said on the previous page, it is pretty clear that Dharun Ravi will never dare to do anything even remotely related to gay bashing in his life.

And the article I posted addresses the issue of what message is being sent. Yes, I would have liked for the sentence to be a bit harsher, but more jail time for a college guy with no previous criminal offense for the type of crime that Ravi committed to me is just bloodthirst and nothing more.

I already said what I think about the whole "tampering with evidence" terminology. I know it's necessary in the court, but let's call it for what it is here, ok?

Its not about Ravi, like backpacker said, its about justice for Tyler whose privacy was invaded.

And you cannot say for sure what Ravi would do, his actions were that of a bully and because he didn't see that, because society doesn't accept that to its full extent, Ravi was right to be convicted and sentenced.

Few people see justice when this kind of thing happens, probably less than 1% see justice when this kind of thing happens.

 

[evanrick]

I'm not saying it's right, but it's probably true that, had this case not become a national news story because of Clementi's suicide, it never would have traveled outside the dorm room (much less reached the level where we're talking about deportation).

if he hadn't jumped off a bridge, he could have requested a new roommate, moved on with his life, and Ravi probably would have been reprimanded by the college with some community service (and maybe a sensitivity class or two)

I witnessed worse invasions of privacy in my college career and can safely say that none of the offenders ever served jail time over passing around naked pictures of their ex's.

so that makes it OK? America has a gay problem and is yet to come to terms.

 

[Rolyo85]

That's true, but treating symptoms with a sledgehammer would be counterproductive.

Even the gay community is divided over the Ravi situation. That ought to tell us something.