Do You Believe In An Afterlife?

[NotHardUp1]

Having investigated many of the wisdom traditions throughout the world, it seems appropriate to mention the following.

Regarding Buddhism, the Dalai Lama has come out in support of same-sex marriages/partnerships. His reasoning is that, since it's consensual and no one is harmed, it should be all right. Note that, as a Buddhist, he doesn't invoke "with the sanction of God".

Yes, he is very progressive. However, he is the equivalent of the Episcopalian Presiding Bishop. By that I mean there are only about 1.5 million in the U.S., but there are over 140 million Protestants. So, the Presiding Bishop represents only 1% of American Protestants, and of the larger Christian population in America of 210 million, he represents well below 1%.

Out of the half billion Buddhists in the world, only about half are within the branch that Vajrayana is a subset of. However, it is VERY hard to find internet sources that venture to estimate Buddhist numbers by sect. That takes nothing away from the Dalai Lama, but students of comparative religion in America are easily misled into a reframing of Buddhism as not a religion, which is furthered by Zen Buddhists here, of Western descent and conversion. It seems to come from the discomfort with the majority of the world's Buddhists, the vast majority, worshipping actual gods, hundreds of them, rather than believing in abstract virtues or traits as found in Zen. It's also debatable that even within Vajrayana, it's adherents in Eastern cultures would not likely agree with the statements from American followers who state they don't worship gods.

There is a Hindu story regarding the author Christopher Isherwood and his guru, Swami Premananda, who was a direct disciple of the revered Ramakrishna. Isherwood was asked by his guru to move into the ashram but, before doing so, he felt the need to tell his guru that he had a male lover. Premananda's response was: "If you see in your lover the young Lord Krishna, that will lea you to love and that will lead you to Godhead. I have no problem with it." Isherwood then moved into the ashram and eventually wrote a book which I would highly recommend, "Ramakrishna and his Disciples".

My own teacher, a mahamandeshwara in the orders of Shankara (comparable to a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church) held the same position in reference to homosexuality.

It's the "people of the book" (the Abrahamic religions) that seem to have the biggest obsession with sex and homosexuality. LOL

Thank you. I shall try to find a copy.

As for the monotheistic Abrahamic religions, the three seem to share more a trait of denying homosexuality more than suppressing it, with no disrespect intended for our gay brothers in countries where they may be killed for being outed. There are North African countries along the coast where not only homosexuality is prostituted, but where pederastry is the norm. And we see a similar pattern in the Levant. The ancient taboo of males being passive still prevails, with tops able to deny homosexuality or bisexuality, just as convicts do despite having bitches under their control. Judaism is so hugely divergent, with American and European agnostic strains being LGBTQ activitists, at the same time African, Hasidic, and other old orders condemn it as if they were at Moses' tent.

All I can say is that we have many decades at least before we outlive the vestiges of the gay taboo in the West that is the relic of serfdom, and wives as chattel before that.

 

[backagain]

This thread is getting very heavy. Good luck with all the beliefs and finding out which one is right.

 

[rareboy]

Jesus.
Maybe time for it to go the religious forum?

 

[Kahaih]

This thread is getting very heavy. Good luck with all the beliefs and finding out which one is right.

Turns out heaven points can only be collected by stepping on a crack while walking under a very short ladder.

Wearing a helmet is cheating -- it won't work.

 

[Kahaih]

Jesus.
Maybe time for it to go the religious forum?

That definitely qualifies as a 'good deed'. Yes.

 

[Tantric-Master]

Jesus.
Maybe time for it to go the religious forum?

Good point.

 

[Tantric-Master]

Out of the half billion Buddhists in the world, only about half are within the branch that Vajrayana is a subset of. However, it is VERY hard to find internet sources that venture to estimate Buddhist numbers by sect. That takes nothing away from the Dalai Lama, but students of comparative religion in America are easily misled into a reframing of Buddhism as not a religion, which is furthered by Zen Buddhists here, of Western descent and conversion. It seems to come from the discomfort with the majority of the world's Buddhists, the vast majority, worshipping actual gods, hundreds of them, rather than believing in abstract virtues or traits as found in Zen. It's also debatable that even within Vajrayana, it's adherents in Eastern cultures would not likely agree with the statements from American followers who state they don't worship gods.

As others have mentioned, it's probably time to move this to a religion forum as it's wandering from the afterlife topic.

I did want to close with one point on Buddhism though. Having spent some time with Buddhist monks in various countries .... Thailand, Burma/Myammar, Tibet, China (Guangzhou), Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, Korea (Zen monastery in Gjungju), and so on .... I've noticed that they are not particularly focused on sexuality but rather on addressing CRAVING (for anything).

The Hindu temples at Khajuraho have practically every conceivable sex act carved on the outside walls of the temple ... but, when one goes inside, there is nothing but stillness as one leaves sexuality behind as one goes into the depths.

The Abrahamic religions seem to be the ones most focused on sexuality for some reason and such teachings are definitely of the lower planes as advanced beings can change their outer forms (I've seen that as the body is projected consciousness) and are not as concerned with gender as the Abrahamic religions.

Enough of religion.

 

[Tantric-Master]

To get back to the primary theme of this thread, I attended an online Death Cafe last night where various issues related to the process of death and dying ... including the afterlife ... were discussed in breakout groups. My breakout group included the host so we were able to go into great depth concerning the nature of death and dying ... including the afterlife and ADCs (after death communications) which are now openly discussed in continuing education classes for licensed mental health professionals. In one such class which I personally attended, it was stated that 70% of widows have ADCs in some form with their departed spouses within a year of the crossing over and the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistics Manual used in psychiatric diagnoses) has been updated to address this phenomenon. This phenomenon is actually more common than most would suspect. ADCs can give interesting glimpses into the "afterlife".

That might be a better focus for continuing this thread here and leave religions out of it.

 

[Tantric-Master]

Has anyone here ever had an ADC (after death communication) with a departed one? In Death Cafes, there are at least one or two participants at every death cafe in which I have participated who have had an ADC ... with the more interesting ADCs being verifiable.

I will start this ADC afterlife discussion with one of my first ADCs. Many years ago, I "saw" my 35-year old friend Andy in my room one evening at about 2-3AM in the morning. He was smiling and waving goodbye. I knew intuitively that he had left the earth plane and that he was fine. At 9AM in the morning, I got a call from his sister, Felicia. She told me to sit down as she had some bad unexpected news. For some reason, I spontaneously blurted out, "Andy's gone, isn't he?" Shocked, she asked me what had made me say that. I told her about my experience in the wee hours of the morning at which point she confirmed that was exactly when Andy had passed away. Saddened by the physical loss of her brother, she was nonetheless somewhat relieved to hear that her brother Andy was smiling and was fine.

 

[NotHardUp1]

I don't believe in god, heaven, hell, reincarnation, nirvana, paradise, or any sort of afterlife.

Am I wrong?

Quoting the OP to put context into the thread, especially since there are multiple comments about what is on topic and what is not.

The OP specifically referred to religious phrases and invited discussion on the broad question. He titled the thread to include "believe" as well, a term more associated with religion than science.

The thread ran only to its 21st Post in 2006 and then died.

Metta rolled the stone away and the thread returned from the afterlife a few days ago.

Religion and death and the afterlife are all inherently deep subjects, hence philosophers and undertakers have income.

The thread was originally not banished from Hot Topics because in 2006, I don't think JUB yet had a religion forum. I remember because I was asked to consider modding it, but my opinion then and now is that religion IS a Hot Topic, just as CE&P and Celebrities are, so walling them off in a far pasture doesn't increase site activity or hits, but the opposite. Those weaker forums fall below frequent activity and threads die a gruesome death of starvation.

To backagain's post about who is right, I guess that's in keeping with greaves' question, but we've been doing a good job in the thread's reincarnation of NOT defying any one religion's position, or even the atheist positions.

Threads walk on their own legs, and they change, just as this one did after it died the first time, and behave like children, doing their own thing. The OP nor the posters get to manage the content of others, beyond putting on Ignore, reporting it, or trying to get a mod to split it or banish it.

 

[LoveMyPeppermill]

The thread ran only to its 21st Post in 2006 and then died.

Metta rolled the stone away and the thread returned from the afterlife a few days ago.

Well played, Jason!

 

[Tantric-Master]

Religion and death and the afterlife are all inherently deep subjects

To backagain's post about who is right, I guess that's in keeping with greaves' question, but we've been doing a good job in the thread's reincarnation of NOT defying any one religion's position, or even the atheist positions.

I'm relatively new to this site so your post was particularly helpful in acclimating me to the posting climate here. Thank you.

 

[Rickrock]

I have not had an after death communication, but I have had relatives who have had some. One relative had them with relatives and another relative had them with neighbors.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Has anyone here ever had an ADC (after death communication) with a departed one? In Death Cafes, there are at least one or two participants at every death cafe in which I have participated who have had an ADC ... with the more interesting ADCs being verifiable.

I have not, but friends have. My late friend, Janis had been married to her husband for more than 50 years when he passed. She was adorable, and a devoted wife and mother. My landlady and she had lived alongside one another for decades, raised their kids together, and been best friends. Now, both had buried their husbands, albeit decades apart.

Janis soon after began telling Lucille that she had seen Mack. She woke in the night, and there he was at the foot of her bed. She didn't say he had spoke, nor that she had gotten any message out of his appearance. She said this several more times over the weeks, and every time, Lucille told her, "Janis, don't SAY that! It just gives me the creeps," or something to that effect. It's been almost 40 years ago, so I'm not clear on the exact phrase. Lucille was always "scary," the rural vernacular for "easily frightened." I had seen Lucy without her hair done. She was, in fact, scary.

My own feeling, and my counsel to Lucille, was that it didn't matter if Mack was appearing to Janis to comfort her, or if she had a waking dream, or if her mind and heart were unable to NOT see him after a lifetime together. I was neither curious nor afraid. She was not upset by her experience, and that was all that mattered to me. It was not for me to believe it, or doubt it, but to be caring about my friend.

Only a couple years after that, Janis succumbed to dementia, so it's possible that was relevant. It's also possible it wasn't. I don't comprehend ghosts as ghouls, so am not spooked by claims of people seeing them, nor am I prone to believe conjurers. I'm open to treating each event as the evidence warrants.

 

[metta]

Only a couple years after that, Janis succumbed to dementia, so it's possible that was relevant.

As someone that had to take care of my mom's health and finances, and who died of Alzheimer's, I think it is very relevant. Hallucinations are a very common symptom.

 

[Tantric-Master]

I have not, but friends have. My late friend, Janis had been married to her husband for more than 50 years when he passed. She was adorable, and a devoted wife and mother. My landlady and she had lived alongside one another for decades, raised their kids together, and been best friends. Now, both had buried their husbands, albeit decades apart.

Janis soon after began telling Lucille that she had seen Mack. She woke in the night, and there he was at the foot of her bed. She didn't say he had spoke, nor that she had gotten any message out of his appearance. She said this several more times over the weeks, and every time, Lucille told her, "Janis, don't SAY that! It just gives me the creeps," or something to that effect. It's been almost 40 years ago, so I'm not clear on the exact phrase. Lucille was always "scary," the rural vernacular for "easily frightened." I had seen Lucy without her hair done. She was, in fact, scary.

My own feeling, and my counsel to Lucille, was that it didn't matter if Mack was appearing to Janis to comfort her, or if she had a waking dream, or if her mind and heart were unable to NOT see him after a lifetime together. I was neither curious nor afraid. She was not upset by her experience, and that was all that mattered to me. It was not for me to believe it, or doubt it, but to be caring about my friend.

Only a couple years after that, Janis succumbed to dementia, so it's possible that was relevant. It's also possible it wasn't. I don't comprehend ghosts as ghouls, so am not spooked by claims of people seeing them, nor am I prone to believe conjurers. I'm open to treating each event as the evidence warrants.

That reminds me of a somewhat similar experience with my father about 3 months after he passed away of congested heart failure in his late 50s. My mother was understandably very distraught and gravitating towards depression.

One night, I had a friend staying over in the twin bed next to mine. During that night, I saw my father standing at the foot of my bed saying (not sure if it was actual words or telepathic) "I'm okay but your mother has to let me go." It was so real that I woke my friend up and kept saying, "Can't you see my father" over and over again. My friend conceded that he hadn't seen anything but confirmed that I was WIDE AWAKE and clearly saw something that he could not see. There was, however, one thing in particular that was strange about this encounter. My father was wearing a green shirt (which is somewhat normal) and BLUE BELLBOTTOM PANTS (significant as you will see). He NEVER wore blue bellbottom pants.

That morning, I called my mother who lived in another city and pondered what I was going to say to her. However, I didn't have to initiate the conversation as she started it by saying that she had an unusual experience during the night. She stated that she had seen my father (as she referred to him) at the foot of her bad saying "I'm okay, but you have to let me go." She then added that there was something strange about my father's attire. She noted that he was wearing a green shirt, and, before she could finish, I blurted out "and blue bellbottom pants?" She was stunned and asked what had made me say that as she confirmed that she had never seen him in blue bellbottom pants. I then told her that I had the same experience during the night and my friend Joey had been a witness to it.

After that, my mother's demeanor changed completely and she was able to move on with her life. I took some time off and treated her to a trip to the Virgin Islands after which the depression was gone as she was convinced that my father was "okay". She was finally able to let him go albeit tinged with a bit of understandable sadness over the loss.

 

[Tantric-Master]

I have not had an after death communication, but I have had relatives who have had some. One relative had them with relatives and another relative had them with neighbors.

Could you describe one of those after death communications in whatever detail you can recall.

 

[Tantric-Master]

As someone that had to take care of my mom's health and finances, and who died of Alzheimer's, I think it is very relevant. Hallucinations are a very common symptom.

There are many people who have had after death communications but are reluctant to mention them for fear of people labeling them an "hallucination". Some of them, however, are hallucinations.

 

[NotHardUp1]

My father was wearing a green shirt (which is somewhat normal) and BLUE BELLBOTTOM PANTS (significant as you will see). He NEVER wore blue bellbottom pants.

If I get there and we're doing the 70's again, I'm gonna question which direction I went.

 

[Rickrock]

Expanding my post 93 per post 97.

My one grandmother had three experiences I heard her and family members talk about them some time later. 1. Around 8:00 PM my grandparents sent my father and his sister, as young children, to go upstairs and start getting ready for bed and they would shortly come upstairs to tuck them in. The children started up the stairs, which had an L bend, and heard bedsprings squeak from someone getting off a bed and heard footsteps come down the hall and start down the stairs. They ran downstairs and said they were afraid because there was a man upstairs. My grandparents went upstairs and couldn't find anyone. Later that night my grandparents heard the news that my grandmother's brother was murdered at about that time. 2. My grandmother got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and passed through the kitchen. Her brother-in-law, who lived about 6 houses down the street, walked across her kitchen, turned around and walked out through her back door without opening it. She checked the door and it was locked. The next day she called her sister to find out how they were and they were fine. Later, at suppertime, her brother-in-law had a heart attack and died. 3. My grandparents had a two-family house and lived in the first floor suite and rented the second floor suite to a young couple. Both suites had a back door to a common back hall and stairwell the went from the basement past both floors and to the attic. One afternoon they heard someone going up the attic stairs and the upstairs lady tenant came down to tell them she saw a young boy going up the attic stairs. My grandparents searched the attic and couldn't find anyone. Later they heard that my grandmother's sister's young grandson had died at about that time.

My one cousin had two experiences that she told me about. One of her elderly neighbors had wandered away and was missing for a few days before they found him in a field. My cousin knew he had died because he had appeared to her. She was washing in the bathroom and he appeared. She told him that she wasn't dressed and wanted privacy and he seemed embarrassed and he went out to the hall. Another time she was sleeping at night and had an old wobbly chair next to her bed that squeaked when someone sat on it. She was awakened by it squeaking one night and an elderly neighbor woman who had died was sitting and fidgeting on it. She couldn't fall back to sleep because of the squeaking and finally asked her deceased mother to take this woman away so she could fall back to sleep. The squeaking stopped.

I wonder if some people seem to have heighted senses and are a magnet for the deceased.