Do You Believe In Smacking Children ?

[Soilwork]

But, "beaten" and mere spankings are not the same. Sex isn't rape, as an analogy.

Whereas ALL of your examples may be true and accurately described, as Matt posted earlier, extremes do produce that. Basic corporal punishment is not by definition a "beating."

Sex isn't rape because sex is consensual.

Spankings are not consensual. Therefore they're beatings, even if they're not drawing blood and leaving bruises.

 

[nycguydowntown]

Like I said I was barely hit-- ever--but I think going mental on a kid is very bad---throwing things, pulling hair whipping, etc. a loving slap on the butt probably isn't-- unless you think the whole human race is fucked up because probably 90 percent of the human race got a few slaps on the butt as a kid.

 

[SaskGuy]

I was spanked when I was a kid, and it taught me not to do what I did again. Sometimes a good smack is the only way you can teach them a lesson.
Although obviously I don't condone flat out physical abuse, or spanking for any little reason. There has to be a good reason.

It also depends on the kid. Some kids might be left emotionally scarred well into adulthood from being smacked, so you also need to take the individual child into consideration.

 

[Alnitak]

Fuck this shit of you'll damage the child ...

I would love to hear an adoption judge's response

You know not all children have ADHD in my day it was called being a kid.

They also didn't know germs caused disease

 

[ShadowCat]

I'm only 27 not 127

 

[peeonme]

It is both unfair an inaccurate to brand every parent or teacher as "lazy" who ever used corporal punishment. Many or even most of the best teachers in past eras as well as conscientious parents used it.

Until certain child development theory took a position against it, it was absolutely the universal practice, but even then, some used it little and others excessively.

Smacking, slapping, hitting and such serve two purposes.
1. It allows a lazy parent to deal with their child without much thought or effort. You see instant results, a crying frightened child in pain will beg for mercy and promise "to be good".
2. It allows an angry parent to get even. This speaks for it's self.
Physical contact should only be used to protect the child and to express love for the child.

I was referring to presentence, in times past mankind walked in ignorance and that can be excused, now there is no excuse for child abuse. Hitting is abuse.

 

[Cormac135]

Oh, you're trying to hurt my feelings. That's cute.

But it DOES prove me right. Like your mother picking up a chair and chasing you around hitting you with it... you grabbed what you thought was the closest weapon to use against me. You think making silly comments about my work is going to hurt my feelings me. It doesn't.

My movies kick ass. And they're not generic at all. But you're reacting just the way your mommy taught you.

So... I was right.

Oh dear, the whole world really does revolve around little you.

Moving on.

 

[Keeland]

Spankings never did me any harm. What's for lunch?

— Jeffrey Dahmer[h=1][/h]​

 

[NotHardUp1]

I don't think its parents who truly want the drugs for their kids. More trusted physicians and drug companies telling everyone that they need it.

Also fuck the idea of letting cops off the hook for murdering people, because kids aren't spanked.

Unfortunately, there are indeed parents who do choose the easy route of medication before exhausting behavioral modification methods. They (we) live in a pharam culture. Too much "belly fat"? Take a pill. wanna fuck like a rock star? Take a pill. Anxious because you're a dick? Take a pill.

As for Ferguson, I took Shadowcat's comment to be that a street kid who's parents didn't even make him come home at night when we was in the third or fourth grade, surely were a factor when he turns in to a grown man and steals cigars and in turn literally reaches in to a squad car to grab a weapon in a fight with a cop. The ship in turned in degree. It was pretty obvious that the criminal grew a disregard for authority in steps, and it ultimately was a direct factor in getting him killed. But, Shadowcat can explain for himself.

Discipline is relative, physical "discipline" didn't actually insert discipline into a child, it instilled fear, The kid didn't commit the act they were being smacked for because they learned their lesson, they didn't do that again for the fear of being hit. Huge difference.

I disagree. Whereas a child fears punishment, the child also fears being caught lying or breaking something, or losing a privilege. The suggestion that children who are spanked go around in some mortal fear is fallacious. A lot of childhood involves fear for one reason or another. There is no reason to surmise that fear of punishment is some sort of mental cruelty inflicted by allegedly inept parents. Just as adults don't run red lights, steal cars, shoot guns in back yards, or gang rape women in the marketplace as if they were in India, children learn from punishments to condition behavior so that they can coexist in a society, be it a family, a school, or a city. An adult doesn't look at a woman in a sexy dress and think, "I'd sure like to rape the shit out of her if only I wouldn't end up in jail and get raped by that big bald guy!" No, the man just fantasizes about her but doesn't think of rape because he has learned from the social conditioning.

I never felt fear when I got a spanking.

I certainly felt fear, but fear of a consequence, not that I would be harmed in any way, as spankings, even with a belt, were no more than a passing pain that smarted. I'm sure football players endure much worse in the course of a football practice, yet, head butts notwithstanding, there is no cry that football is abuse.

Sex isn't rape because sex is consensual.

Spankings are not consensual. Therefore they're beatings, even if they're not drawing blood and leaving bruises.

But the analogy remains effective, as it highlights the use of rhetoric to describe something in an exaggerated manner. It is the equal of the courts defining "statutory rape" when it was in fact consensual. The notion that a 15 or 17 year old isn't capable of making a voluntary decision to engage in sex with a fellow teen is both false and hypocritical. Statutory rape is little more than a legal convenience (in many cases) to allow a parent to punish the partner beyond their reach otherwise.

Of course, a person CAN couch a spanking as a beating, but in the long trek of history, it really wasn't seen that way except in cases when a parent or teacher was excessive. The definition most people had of "beating" has been "an act of striking with repeated blows so as to injure or damage." I don't know of many parents or children in average homes who would characterize a spanking as an attempt by their parents to harm the children. It is sad that one "progressive" side of the debate has succeeded in promulgating the pejorative term "abuse" to apply to spankings carte blanche. It simply isn't true, and using a war of words has failed to convince the general population of it.

I would love to hear an adoption judge's response

And if that is a litmus test, it is an injustice. There are centuries of proof that corporal punishment is not inherently abusive. I don't believe that every judge is of that opinion. There are too many good minds in law. What may be true is that adoption agencies cut their risks by introducing such a prohibition.

I was referring to presentence, in times past mankind walked in ignorance and that can be excused, now there is no excuse for child abuse. Hitting is abuse.

That is not the state of the law in these United States. Spanking is not de facto abuse. There are cases where it is challenged, and probably with merit in those cases, but that is not the position of the executive, legislative, or judicial branches of the U.S. government. That is still an opinion, one among many.

 

[jbrown329]

My ex and I did craft shows. One of the things we made was candles. Some were candles meant not to burn. Wax irises, daffodils, orchids were not meant to burn. Yes, they did have a wick. We made dragon candles (freehand, no mold) too.

Guess how damn many of those flowers were broken through the years because some fucking parent either could not or would not control their children? Watch that little spoiled brat pick a dragon up and slam it back on the shelf. Well, that just broke the toes/leg/arm off. What does the parent do? Grab the little spoiled brat and run like hell.

So, spank the little 'darlings' and maybe the little fuckers will learn to NOT destroy stuff that does NOT belong to them.

 

[Alnitak]

And if that is a litmus test, it is an injustice. There are centuries of proof that corporal punishment is not inherently abusive. I don't believe that every judge is of that opinion. There are too many good minds in law. What may be true is that adoption agencies cut their risks by introducing such a prohibition.

Well there are people in power who do care about damage to a child, particularly in light of a "fuck this" attitude introduced as evidence.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Don't get me wrong. My grandmother worked as an assistant to the juvenile probation officer for our city and county. She saw all kinds of stuff. And frankly, my own mother was abusive, but because we were from a "good family" (known, not wealthy), nothing was ever done about it in law.

I greatly admire judges and advocates and case workers, and I don't share the contempt for child services that so many do. It is a very tough job and there are difficult decisions to be made. I'm glad they work to protect children. I just don't think spanking is in-and-of-itself something they have to screen.

 

[Alnitak]

I greatly admire judges and advocates and case workers, and I don't share the contempt for child services that so many do. It is a very tough job and there are difficult decisions to be made. I'm glad they work to protect children. I just don't think spanking is in-and-of-itself something they have to screen.

Maybe not, but a judge might not look so favorably on a candidate who has a foul temper and a dismissive attitude - you know the type that might go too far.

 

[Willie Boy]

....So, spank the little 'darlings' and maybe the little fuckers will learn to NOT destroy stuff that does NOT belong to them.

Or make them pay for it out of their own allowance when it happens, even if it is the parent putting up the money and deducting from the kid's allowance until the money is paid back. If it was done intentionally then other consequences are added onto that.... But first and foremost is restitution. That teaches the child that there are direct consequences when damaging the property of another person, also the child learns the value of money, as well as self control, otherwise there WILL be punishment. Treat accidents as just that, accidents that must be rectified. Intentional misbehavior carries immediate punishment with potential, appropriate, consequences later.

 

[peeonme]

That is not the state of the law in these United States. Spanking is not de facto abuse. There are cases where it is challenged, and probably with merit in those cases, but that is not the position of the executive, legislative, or judicial branches of the U.S. government. That is still an opinion, one among many.

Smoking though restricted is still legal, that does not mean it's a good idea.
I said in an earlier post that a smack on the hand to keep a child from toughing the stove was as far as I think one should go.

I saw way to much violence as a boy, for one who weighs over 180 pounds to inflict pain on a child who weighs less than half of the adult is just plain sick.

Why not take a belt to those who break the speed limit? Why is a child subject to violence from parents, teachers (when I was in public school) cops (yes it happens) school yard bullies (with little if any punishment to the bully) and yet when they hit a magic age suddenly you can't touch them without fear of some legal repercussions?

Is this child less than human? Can you whip your dog? Is the child worth less than the animal?
Just because it's legal it does not mean that it is not abuse.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I disagree. Whereas a child fears punishment, the child also fears being caught lying or breaking something, or losing a privilege. The suggestion that children who are spanked go around in some mortal fear is fallacious. A lot of childhood involves fear for one reason or another. There is no reason to surmise that fear of punishment is some sort of mental cruelty inflicted by allegedly inept parents. Just as adults don't run red lights, steal cars, shoot guns in back yards, or gang rape women in the marketplace as if they were in India, children learn from punishments to condition behavior so that they can coexist in a society, be it a family, a school, or a city. An adult doesn't look at a woman in a sexy dress and think, "I'd sure like to rape the shit out of her if only I wouldn't end up in jail and get raped by that big bald guy!" No, the man just fantasizes about her but doesn't think of rape because he has learned from the social conditioning.

Yes the child fears being caught, which doesn't actually mean they become more disciplined.

There is no suggestion that the children walk around mortal fear, I did not say that. I said the child does something wrong they fear being smacked more than actually learning any lesson of discipline or not doing something bad again. The actual suggestion that people or the younger crowd is less disciplined because of the lack of physical "discipline" is the real fallacy here.

Punishment isn't the problem here for me, the physical form of it I do have one with. And I do agree with others that it is a lazy way out. Punishments can come in all shapes and sizes without a physical part of it needing to be introduced.

I don't think how people learned to act properly in society has anything to do with whether they were smacked as children or not. Personally thinking back to being a child and when I was smacked, there is never a time where that helped shape me who I am today when it comes to my personal strengths.

I am not going to tell people how to raise their kids but I don't have to agree with it either and I don't think because of a lack of physical "discipline" has much to do with "kids these days."

 

[jbrown329]

Or make them pay for it out of their own allowance when it happens, even if it is the parent putting up the money and deducting from the kid's allowance until the money is paid back. If it was done intentionally then other consequences are added onto that.... But first and foremost is restitution. That teaches the child that there are direct consequences when damaging the property of another person, also the child learns the value of money, as well as self control, otherwise there WILL be punishment. Treat accidents as just that, accidents that must be rectified. Intentional misbehavior carries immediate punishment with potential, appropriate, consequences later.

Yeah right. 90% of the time the fucking parents made it through the door and let their 'darlings' run wild. 3 damn buildings at the fairgrounds with 300+ vendors. The 'responsible' parents had no fucking clue as to where or what their children were doing. So you tell me what the fuck was I supposed to do when a spoiled 7yr old ran up to the booth, grabbed a candle and threw it back on the shelf? If I could've gotten away with it, I'd have turned that little snot over my knee and tanned his ass but good.

 

[Soilwork]

Oh dear, the whole world really does revolve around little you.

Moving on.

I somehow doubt you're actually moving on, luv.

 

[mikey3000]

I've known a lot of adults who insist that getting beaten by their parents "never did me any harm" and every one of them are fucked up, broken, messed up, warped assholes. The passive aggressive types who love to snipe from the darkness. The really damaged ones. You can spot them from miles away.

Yeah that's normal human behavior.

So your mother taught you that humans solve their problems by grabbing a makeshift weapon and attacking the person who upset them even if they were a defenseless child that just had bad parenting.

Got it. That explains a lot.

In all honesty, the day any of my kids came home and told me they wanna make porn, they'd get the slaps from me quick fast.

 

[Soilwork]

In all honesty, the day any of my kids came home and told me they wanna make porn, they'd get the slaps from me quick fast.

Well of course, but that's so you don't see them getting fucked while
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