Does it make me gay if I want to have sex with guys, but cannot love one?

[introv3rt]

Amercan Heritage Dictionary : Sexual Orientation
n.
The direction of one's sexual interest toward members of the same, opposite, or both sexes.

Sorry, but I value an arbitrary dictionary's defintion less than that of the APA and numerous other sources that actually have some scientific basis.

 

[justaguy]

If what you're saying here is true, then asexuals cannot experience romantic feelings towards anyone, and that is simply false. Plenty of asexuals live in romantic relationships where they love their partner in a completely different way than how they love their family members.

That's true enough, but I don't believe the two situations are comparable. People with sexual urges need these urges satisfied, I believe, to be the happiest they can be, through their lives.

 

[introv3rt]

That's true enough, but I don't believe the two situations are comparable. People with sexual urges need these urges satisfied, I believe, to be the happiest they can be, through their lives.

I'm not arguing that a relationship in which one person is purely into it for non-sexual reasons, but is also sexually attracted to the other gender, is a good one.

I'm simply arguing that sexual orientation is not all about sexual attraction and urges. People have urges for companionship, for love and affection, as well. One's orientation is a factor of all of these things, and they can be present in varying degrees. The "ideal" relationship would, of course, involve all of them, but I don't see the sexual component as the one which should define you completely. If you have romantic feelings towards women, and a sexual attraction towards men, then I guess I might see that as some form of bisexuality, because the sexual aspect is there with men and the emotional/romantic aspect is there with women – and while ideally both would be present, that's not necessarily the case, and I don't think the absence of one is a make or break-type thing.

But, off to bed. Almost 4AM and I need to be up in 3 hours. Sorry if my sentence structure and whatever is fucked, I'm tired and English isn't my mother tongue.

 

[ibill1]

Again Elvin,

1) By definition there is no sexual involvement in a marriage of conveniece. It doesn't mean the two people don't love each other. It just means that for whatever reason they don't have a sexual relationship. But both partners must be satisfied with that. There aren't many men or women with a healthy libido who would be satisfied with that, in order to accommodate someone with "0% sexual interest" in them.

2) For an open relationship to work, both partners have to be fully on board with it. How many straight women do you know who would accept their husbands having sex with other men (or women, for that matter) because they had no sexual interest in them?

3) Many gay men have "0%" interest in a romantic relationship with another man. They may be psychologically conditioned against it. They may have had one or many disasterous past relationships. They may prefer their personal freedom to engaging a romantic relationship. None of that changes their sexual identity,

Now, you're going to need to find someone to argue with, because I have things to do and must log off.

Take care and best wishes.

Many? Really? I must have been living in a cave the last 35 years. I just assumed very few gay men had the issues the OP stated. Only he can decide if he is gay or not. However, if you only enjoy sex with members of your own sex, well, I believe the writing is on the wall. It also has to be realized that some people are incapable of emotionally loving anyone. It is sad but it is true for a variety of reasons. They can have sex with anyone but are not able to truly love another person.

I don't believe one has a choice in the matter. If you meet someone and fall in love with them I believe it's completely out of your control. That emotional bond just happens and I don't believe you can turn it off and on like a switch. It just consumes you and is the most wonderful thing that can happen to us. If you are not capable of that type of intimacy you'll probably run from it and never let yourself be that vulnerable. I feel in love at first sight, I had no choice in the matter. The sexual and emotional intimacy just came along for the ride, it wasn't something I gave any thought to whatsoever. I think this can happen to him at any time. It hasn't yet and maybe has led him to believe he can't love another man, it could. Just an opinion of an older guy. I've had successes throughout my life but loving another man with all my heart and soul is at at the top of my list. It takes work, compassion and understanding and I think that scares the shit out of alot of guys, so they beat feet the hell out of there.

 

[introv3rt]

Second, find me ONE source that says one can be bisexual without attraction or sexual responses to both sexes.

ONE legit source. thats all i'm asking for. And not the inclusion of "and/or" because that does nothing to advance your point.

And we're talking about bisexuality, heterosexuality and homosexuality here. Not the vague overarching category of sexual orientation.

To cover your last paragraph first: Bisexuality, heterosexuality and homosexuality are types of sexual orientations, it's not some "vague overarching category", it's comparable to how male and female are types of gender.

And as for one legit source? How about the glossary of the GLAAD Media Reference Guide? Their definition of bisexual:

An individual who is physically, romantically and/or emotionally attracted to men and women.

This sentence clearly states that an individual is (or can identify as, I guess) bisexual if said individual is physically and/or romantically and/or emotionally attracted to either sex. Nothing about this sentence requires that they experience the same kind of attraction towards both sexes.

 

[justaguy]

I'm not arguing that a relationship in which one person is purely into it for non-sexual reasons, but is also sexually attracted to the other gender, is a good one.

I'm simply arguing that sexual orientation is not all about sexual attraction and urges. People have urges for companionship, for love and affection, as well. One's orientation is a factor of all of these things, and they can be present in varying degrees. The "ideal" relationship would, of course, involve all of them, but I don't see the sexual component as the one which should define you completely. If you have romantic feelings towards women, and a sexual attraction towards men, then I guess I might see that as some form of bisexuality, because the sexual aspect is there with men and the emotional/romantic aspect is there with women – and while ideally both would be present, that's not necessarily the case, and I don't think the absence of one is a make or break-type thing.

Oh crap !!! Don't tell me I might not be gay after all. I think I might have an emotional bond to some women, even a romantic one. It never worked, because I ... you know ... couldn't get a ... well ... an erection ... at the drop of a hat, or even a slinky pair of panties. It took me half my life to work out and admit I was gay. Which has made no end of difference. And now you're saying I might be straight or at least bisexual after all. Oh fuck !!!

 

[hotatlboi]

But your experience does not pertain to his.

Sure it does.

Like I said, this is a VERY common stage involved in accepting yourself as gay for many people.

You are wrong if you think everyone's experience with this is totally different. There are many similarities that we as a community can recognize from our combined experience.

You're assuming that he HAS to love women. You're not leaving much room for him to actually being able to love them.

I have no idea what this means.

You can also have sex with men and it doesn't make you gay either.

Sure, it's the desire to be with men that makes you gay. If a straight guy likes to get blowjobs from men but is not turned on by the male form, then he probably isn't gay.

But this guy said that his sexual attraction is ONLY for men. That makes him gay.

Are you really telling me there is no such thing as a bisexual?

How that fuck did you infer that from what I said?

He would be bi if his desire was for men and women. He said it is only for men.

The fact that he is not interested in a relationship with men right now does not change his orientation. It just means he is not interested in a relationship right now.

 

[justaguy]

P.S. Thanks for staying up so late Introv3rt and contributing to my overall knowledge. You make some good points.

 

[justaguy]

Thanks for those references Lucky7.

You know, I've thought about this a great deal in the past hour. No matter how much I read the posts of the opposing point of view, I just can't work out how anyone with a 100% sexual interest in guys and a 0% sexual interest in women can be anything other than gay.

 

[justaguy]

Sorry, but each person's experience is unique. Just like their sexuality. We don't all fall into a cookie cutter. To believe otherwise is delusional. As delusional as thinking that if a guy has sex with men that it automatically makes him gay.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Elvin. Whoa is saying that he has a 0% sexual interest in women and 100% in men. Figures like that isn't just sex, that's orientation.

 

[justaguy]

I'm sorry, but you cannot state and confirm his sexuality. Only he can.

But he was asking us for our opinions.

 

[hotatlboi]

Sorry, but each person's experience is unique. Just like their sexuality. We don't all fall into a cookie cutter. To believe otherwise is delusional.

I didn't say everyone's experience was identical. I said there are similar patterns that can be recognized. To believe otherwise is delusional.

I think you're leaveing out a blatant fact: He falls in love with women.

Err... no he doesn't. He never stated that he has been in love with any women. He simply said he prefers the idea of relationships with women. That is a classic response to people who are accepting themselves. The whole "I'm only into guys for the sex" thing. That is a phase that a huge percentage of gay guys go through.

If he stated that he had had any real meaningful emotional relationship with a woman, that would be a totally different thing. He didn't say that and he likely will never, since he is gay.

Again, you are dismissing his emotional desire and his desire to fall in love.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm trying to help him understand where he is at, and not feed him false information like you are doing.

I'm sorry, but you cannot state and confirm his sexuality. Only he can.

And he did. He stated that he has no sexual interest in women. That means he is gay. Even if he still fancies the idea of a relationship with a woman, that simple fact means it would never work. If he tries to force himself into one, it's going to fail spectacularly like so many others because the guy couldn't accept himself. I hope he is able to make a better choice than that.

You are making this way harder than it needs to be.

 

[asu1117]

I'm of the opinion that to be romantically in love with a person you have to be attracted to them.. I mean, if he's in "love" with a woman he has no attraction to how is that different from the (platonic) love any person can feel for a friend?

 

[justaguy]

Oh ... good spotting hotatlboi. One up for our side. Lol.

Whoa said :
but can see myself loving and marrying a woman.

... so he is 100% attracted to men, but can see himself being married to and loving a woman, even though it hasn't happened yet. Mmmmm ....
I wonder what would happen if he did marry, despite not been sexually attracted to the woman and wanting sex with guys, assuming of course, that Whoa has some horniness in his makeup?

Err... no he doesn't. He never stated that he has been in love with any women. He simply said he prefers the idea of relationships with women.

 

[justaguy]

But we'll just have to agree to disagree. We're just going back and forth and I am not gleaning or going to change my mind.

Oh come on ! My expert arguing skills must have swayed you a little ?

 

[justaguy]

I wonder what would happen if he did marry, despite not been sexually attracted to the woman and wanting sex with guys, assuming of course, that Whoa has some horniness in his makeup?

On the other hand, playing devils advocate on myself, what would happen if he became involved with a man sexually, but wasn't romantically connected to him? Very confusing .....

 

[hotatlboi]

I say you are lumping and not taking into account individuality.

No, you are assuming that there are no commonalities in experience to discovering that you are gay in today's society. There are.

Maybe that was your experience but it certainly wasn't mine. I knew very early (pre-teens) that I couldn't fall in love with women. I guess my experience is very rare and unique??

No it isn't and I didn't say that. Plenty of people knew early on. But plenty also figured it out later. Among those people, this is a pretty common response, and we've seen it over and over again on this very forum.

False information? You're kidding, right?
When did I say he was anything concretely?

How about this?

How do I put this delicately? Bullshit.

You keep failing to realize that stating you have no sexual interest in women whatsoever and only have an interest in men is functionally equivalent to stating that you are gay.

 

[hotatlboi]

One more last point:

He has no issue saying that he's sexually attracted to men.

Why would he come on a message board anonymously and state he loves women?

I told you why.

That state of affairs is very common in gay men who are just starting to accept themselves. It is not unusual at all.

You seem to be unaware of this.

 

[hotatlboi]

The question wasn't meant for you. I told you I disagree with you and wasn't going to reply.

As fr as you're concerned it's a statement.

So you are not going to take an explanation for your question just because it's from me?

Look, the fact that that sequence of events seemed unusual to you shows you where your lack of knowledge is.

Plenty of other people have attested to the same thing in this thread besides me. Read the other replies if you won't take it from me.

This is not at all an uncommon occurrence or a mystery as to why he would think that. I think the issue is that this was not your experience so you are having trouble seeing why he would think this. The simple fact is that in many cases men realize their sexual attraction for other men before they do their emotional one. This is for many reasons. I could explain it further, but since you've decided to disregard anything I'm saying, I won't bother. Maybe someone else can explain it for you.

 

[hotatlboi]

Nope. I agree that we disagree and you're not changing my mind on this issue.

So you know for sure that I'm wrong, but you don't know what the right answer is? Kinda funny that.