On-Topic Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

[maxpowr9]

[Text: Removed] Obama has done absolutely nothing to help the economy.
He's too busy looking for photo ops and demeaning himself and the office appearing on talk shows etc.

There is no point in throwing more money after bad money. Any sensible businessperson would realize that. Hell, as a republican capitalist, this would be the "free-market" dictating demand.

The only real variable that remains untested is when Obamacare is fully implemented, how many service companies will cut hours to below the requirement for health insurance and force many employees onto state run healthcare. The hardest hit people will be the ones who work in retail and food/beverage. If Mass Health is any indication of how bad other states will be, I feel bad for people in "red" states then.

From The Globe today...

According to an editorial in The Wall Street Journal last week, health care is expected to account for 41 percent of the state budget in 2013, compared with 23 percent in 2000 and 25 percent in 2006. In real terms Massachusetts’ annual health care budget is 15 percent larger than it was in 2007, according to the Journal, while transportation plunged by 22 percent, public safety by 17 percent, and education by 7 percent.

 

[xbuzzerx]

There is no point in throwing more money after bad money. Any sensible businessperson would realize that. Hell, as a republican capitalist, this would be the "free-market" dictating demand.

The only real variable that remains untested is when Obamacare is fully implemented, how many service companies will cut hours to below the requirement for health insurance and force many employees onto state run healthcare. The hardest hit people will be the ones who work in retail and food/beverage. If Mass Health is any indication of how bad other states will be, I feel bad for people in "red" states then.

Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.

 

[Rolyo85]

Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.

Absolutely agree. Republicans are the biggest socialists when it's about government bailing out failing corporations.

I would be sad to see GameStop go I still hope for some boutique version of both game and movie/tv hard copies retail, because I am thoroughly repulsed by digital distribution. Or rather, I don't mind it at all, but I want to own my movies and games as physical objects. But I don't mind seeing them as only collector's editions. Part of the reason for the death of this particular industry is not only the advent of digital transfer, but also the fact that regular editions of everything became completely barebone. If one wants ANYthing - as much as a fucking booklet - one needs a collector's edition, full of crap you don't need...

 

[maxpowr9]

Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.

TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.

 

[Jack Springer]

Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

Time to grow up and accept responsibility.

 

[xbuzzerx]

TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.

Yes, I agree with EA and Acti-Blizzard being big uncreative monsters that spew out crap, and I'd love to see them fail so that indie devs have some room to gain marketshare. But GameStop is failing for a totally different reason than the quality of games being put out, rather they are based on an obsolete business model of brick and mortar sales of hard copies of games that is increasingly going away and will be completely gone probably in the next decade.

Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

Time to grow up and accept responsibility.

Jack when the economy collapsed under Bush it was in response to specific deregulatory and economic policy decisions the GOP directly supported.

When you point out a small dip in an overall trend of recovery under Obama and try to paint it like something he personally did "tanked the economy" no one takes you seriously, nor should they.

 

[maxpowr9]

Jack when the economy collapsed under Bush it was in response to specific deregulatory and economic policy decisions the GOP directly supported.

Which started under Clinton mind you. Clinton could easily have vetoed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act but he didn't.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

Did you just immigrate to this Country?

I seem to recall Bush 43 coming into office in 2001 with a $236.2 BILLION DOLLAR "Clinton Surplus."

See FactCheck.org.

The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.

The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

Time to grow up and accept responsibility.

Better yet, time to check back into reality!

Costco and Sam's Club are selling dried rice and beans in bulk, and fire arms and ammunition are a sellers market!

The rich are getting richer, and the poor are becoming MORE POOR, and Pollyanna is either Dead, or on life support, depending on one's tax bracket, or their source of news!

Things couldn't be better!

Especially if you're a Tea Bagger, or a Republican up for Re-election...in 2014.

Seriously! Shouldn't we hold off with the partisan dribble at least until then?

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

Went ahead and added some additional info there. They don't pay their CEOs like they are struggling companies. The fact of the matter is that the President has no control over internal corporate mismanagement and lack of economical responsibility. Most corporations are sitting on tons of cash that they aren't investing. They refuse to raise wages. They hire the minimum number of people to get by. They do all kinds of personnel and accounting moves to avoid having to pay people benefits. They move jobs and manufacturing overseas to save money so the CEOs can get paid like noted above. Corporate greed is one of the largest contributors to our lack of good economic performance.

...but...but...they're JOB CREATORS!

 

[Just_Believe18]

I've never seen Jack_Springer so gleeful. The economy "dies," eh? That's what sick about Republicans. They'd dance in glee over the death of this country if it meant they could blame a Democrat. The economy retracted due to government cuts that you support. Contrary to your view of the world, government jobs and infrastructure also plays a major part in driving the economy. That's why if the fiscal cliff went into effect, the entire amount of federal government cuts would swing the U.S. economy into another recession.


For the record I find this post applicable to the discussion of the thread. The hyperbole of word choice here more than justifies the suspicion directed towards the OP for starting it.

 

[CowboyBob]

Another on topic post here:

Whenever there's news that isn't so great, Springer is the first one to report on it. When something great happens the OP ignores it. JB18 is right... the OP is gleeful when there's news like this. Anything to bash the President of the United States.

 

[crimsonpaine]

He

Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eight-retailers-that-will-close-the-most-stores/


Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
Office Depot 125-150
J C Penney 275-350
Sears/K-Mart 275-350
Best Buy 200-250
Gamestop 500-600
Office Max 150-175
Radio Shack 450-550


US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ks-in-fourth-quarter-for-first-time-since-09/

It could be that the stores are closing because they are under-performing in the area they are in. Gamestop (for example since it's been brought up several times) is still opening new locations and they just opened a new store in King George, Virginia not that long ago.

And for the reasons mentioned to as well, competition and such.

 

[opinterph]

View attachment 924373

The link below provides a more dramatic view of the same data from 2000 forward:

http://stockcharts.com/freecharts/historical/djia2000.html​

Some financial experts suggest there is an inverse relationship between the major stock indexes and the US Dollar index (DXY). When the Dollar index declines, stock values tend to inflate. The DXY trend line over the last year is positive, while the moving average has essentially reached the overall average associated with the same period. The DXY trend line during the period of the entire Obama Administration is negative and its moving average is now roughly equivalent to the overall average associated with the most recent year.

It is my personal opinion that what happens next in the US economy is more determinative than what has happened recently.

 

[andysayshi]

He

Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eight-retailers-that-will-close-the-most-stores/


Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
Office Depot 125-150
J C Penney 275-350
Sears/K-Mart 275-350
Best Buy 200-250
Gamestop 500-600
Office Max 150-175
Radio Shack 450-550

Bricks and mortar retail stores are collapsing (financially) around the world. It is driven by the changing face of retail: the internet. Personally, other than food and clothing, I rarely purchase anything in a physical store any more. In my city of Sydney, there is just one major book retailer left in the main shopping district downtown, and it is half the size it used to be. The largest electronics chain in Australia is rapidly contracting, and their movie and music racks have been cut to one third of their size in most stores. The Australian K-Mart chain has morphed from a mid-quality department store to a very-low-budget Walmart-style Chinese plastic outlet chain, in an effort to compete with online competition.

It's unfortunate that it's happening in many ways, but it's just global reality. It's not because of any government action or inaction, it's just the free market in action. You should be celebrating it for that reason - supply and demand is what makes businesses succeed and fail. Conservatives should applaud the free market at work.

 

[CowboyBob]

The economy dies in the 4th quarter? Just been reading my automotive news e-mail. Here's a few of today's stories. Don't know if non-subscribers can access the articles but here they are.

GM to invest $200 million at its powertrain headquarters

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...ters&cciid=email-autonews-daily#axzz2JWCd8opt

Ford sees surge in U.S. hybrid sales on way to annual record

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d...-to-annual-record&cciid=email-autonews-daily#

Chrysler Q4 profits jump 68% to $378 million

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130130/RETAIL01/301309722#ixzz2JWEwEGwP

Yes, the Obama Economy is doing pretty well. Thank the Gods President Obama saved the auto industry instead of letting it go away like republicans wanted.

It's too bad the massive cut in military spending spending slowed down the economy this quarter.

Defense spending pullback shrinks U.S. economy in 4Q

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/morning_call/2013/01/defense-spending-pullback-shrinks-us.html

Looks like we're going to have to focus on other technologies, like green energy instead of weapons of mass destruction.

EPIC FAIL SPRINGER.

 

[Centexfarmer]

...to corrupt you of your reason, and rob you of your common sense...

 

[Apollo]

They cut defense spending that was the issue.

One report I read said it was because the Defense Department simply cut back on spending in anticipation of the spending cuts. Which equated to less government spending.

 

[Jack Springer]

Compare all you want -- but Obama is not Clinton. Clinton had the ability to work with the opposition -- not just degrade it in continual campaigns appearances like the jerk that occupies the WH now.

Did you just immigrate to this Country?

I seem to recall Bush 43 coming into office in 2001 with a $236.2 BILLION DOLLAR "Clinton Surplus."

See FactCheck.org.





Better yet, time to check back into reality!

Costco and Sam's Club are selling dried rice and beans in bulk, and fire arms and ammunition are a sellers market!

The rich are getting richer, and the poor are becoming MORE POOR, and Pollyanna is either Dead, or on life support, depending on one's tax bracket, or their source of news!

Things couldn't be better!

Especially if you're a Tea Bagger, or a Republican up for Re-election...in 2014.

Seriously! Shouldn't we hold off with the partisan dribble at least until then?

 

[Jack Springer]

It is my personal opinion that what happens next in the US economy is more determinative than what has happened recently.

What does that mean? The future is what happens next?

 

[opinterph]

Compare all you want -- but Obama is not Clinton.

Good point.

Which started under Clinton mind you. Clinton could easily have vetoed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act but he didn't.