Faggotty Me!

[StationToStation]

thanks for all the great responses. i really got to hear all sides.

 

[StationToStation]

another thing my hair color is subjective, I am myself no matter what. Reminder my confidence comes from an inner place not a box of color.

 

[StationToStation]

You're awesome Dark Aquarius

I was wondering how you were doing. Well I'm glad you are still strong and doing well. GO TEAM BLUE!

Dark Aquarius comes out and then! love you babe!

 

[Curiosities]

Awwww, I look up to you

 

[Runewell]

Excellent post, StationToStation. None of us can be anything but ourselves, whether it's fem or butch. You'll fail every time if you try to be something else.

 

[MystikWizard]

Well, I got back from helping my brother move around 11 last night and just wasn't in the mood to sign in. But I wake up this morning and see quite a bit of responses. It's too many for me to respond to, so I'll simply respond to the first response, and maybe a couple more as the day goes on. I'm still pretty tired and don't really have the energy to write a novel today on the forum.

You know MystikWizard.

Unfortunately you are one of those who can fall victim to the "I'm going to live my life like a straight man"

So let me get this straight. You think that because you aren't a Straight man, that this should immediately equate to acting like a Woman?

I am not putting on an act. I act like most guys act. That isn't by me putting up an image or anything. That is who I am. I have absolutely zero desire to go out in public and demonstrate characteristics of the opposite sex. It boggles my mind that others feel the need to do this, to draw attention to themselves and stand out.

There used to be a group around before the Gay Movements really started. They were the Mattachines or something like that. All they did was dress like the heterosexuals, behaved in a very calm and serious manner, and only marched. No rioting or fighting. They got nowhere. It wasn't until gays started actually showing their colors and than stonewall for the gay movement to get started and gay groups and organizations starting around the country.

My answer to that is that "Times Change". That has nothing to do with Gays marching in a pride parade while carrying dildos, dressing up like women, etc.

And furthermore. What you are doing pleases heterosexuals and people who want to change us because you know why?

What I'm also doing is pleasing a lot of Gay Men, I'm sure-- Who simply want to come out, but are afraid to because of the image that Effeminate Gay Queens have given to the Heteros, which has only fueled tensions.

By doing that you are giving into them and being exactly like them and EXACTLY like they want us to be. You are giving them the control and power. They don't deserve it.

Actually, I am being myself. What a concept!

By being a hairdresses, wearing drag, being a leatherman, or acting feminine or being loud and different is just a big "FUCK YOU" to them that they don't like.

Yep. That has done absolute wonders for the image of Gay men, hasn't it? So while you are giving them a Big "Fuck You" and accomplishing nothing by doing it, you are making the teen struggling with his sexual identity because of comments from his peers about the "limp-wristed, feminine fags" that much more difficult.

So yes it does piss them off. But after all that society has done to gays. Do you really just want to go, "Oh I want to be just like them"

Well, I am sure you heard of the old saying "Two wrongs don't make a right." And I feel that the same applies here, as well.

I am absolutely convinced that if more Gays would have realistic, heart-to-heart conversations with Heterosexuals about who they are, and how they come to be the way that they are, that we would see a lot more progress and that Heterosexuals would have a much better understanding than what we see today-- Gays acting like Women, Gays carrying dildos and vibrators in Pride Parades simulating oral sex or in some cases ... actually having oral sex, while marching down the street, and in general acting like a Flaming Queen in public.

The problem is that you have to understand your enemy and be able to put yourself in their shoes. Too many Gays don't want to understand their enemy, and therefore just respond with the big "Fuck You" that you described. That accomplishes so much, doesn't it?

If you can get into the mind of your opponent, and understand the rationale with where they are coming from, you will be in a much better position to respond to them and find ways to appeal to their emotions. And like I said, in many cases, that could simply be talking to them about your life and what it's been like growing up Gay, and how you "came to be Gay". They need a better insight into your life.

People have a tendency to fear what they can't identify with. And I think the same holds true with Blacks and Whites for many, many years. The key is to show your opponent that you are just like them in every way, except for skin color, except for Orientation, etc. It's just a shame that we still live in a day and age like we do today in the year 2009, but it is what it is.

Now if you really aren't part of the "Gay Community" like you are trying to say than that's fine. You don't have to be. However, don't criticize us or blame us who put ourselves out there and show all our colors and go "FUCK YOU" to those who want to change us or don't want our existence to be known.

I have no problem with you wanting your existence to be known. But I feel there is a right way and a wrong way to go about doing this. And the flaming Queens and other gays who intentionally act effeminate for attention, I feel is doing absolutely NOTHING to help our cause. Not a damn thing. As a matter of fact, I feel they are hurting it.

Again, I can't help but see the "Fuck You" theme mentioned in your post. Like I said, this attitude does nothing but enflames homophobia, instead of ending it.

Sorry for not backing down and giving into what people want of us.

Nobody says you have to "back down" in your battle. But there is a right way and a wrong way to fight the battle.

But that doesn't mean you should blame us. Because you know what. Eventually people are going to figure out, "Some gays are normal straight acting people. And some are flaming homos that are loud, wear drag, leather, or feminine and I suppose that's just the way the world is and that's that."

You are correct though. We do give gays a bad name and make people think we are perverts, feminine, or odd. And I bet a lot of us are damn proud of it. Girlfriend.

Well, good for you. And while you are doing it, you can continue to fan the flames of homophobia amongst heterosexuals and actually place further burden on the teenage kids who struggle with their sexuality ... who are deciding between telling their parents, or committing suicide.

MystikWizard ~ I know the Pacific Ocean may part after I say this, but I absolutely agree with your premise on this thread!

Stand your ground and don't let the Gay Mafia silence you!

Thank you. See, we may not agree on everything, but we can come to agree on some things like this. I appreciate your comments.

 

[bankside]

The kind that contributes to the stereotype of Effeminate Gay Men. I see. The kind of stereotype that I really wish would end, to be frank.

I hate to say it, but if you want to stick out and flaunt yourself in public ... then you are just asking for it. I'm glad you are willing to take it, but I seriously wish that this image wouldn't be attached to the other Gay Men out there who only want to blend in with the public ... in an effort to show Heterosexuals that we are just like them in every way, except Orientation.

Again, that's good that you want to stand up for yourself. It's just unfortunate that the rest of us Gay Men have to pay the price and live with this stereotype, simply because you want to "stand out". It is this image that fuels the prejudices of Heteros ... which ultimately makes it more difficult for other Gay men to come out.

That's absolutely correct. I don't want to be associated with them. They give Gays a negative, stereotypical image which further increases the hatred of Gays and makes it even more difficult to fit in with the public.

If the Queens out there didn't feel the need to flaunt themselves in public, chances are that we wouldn't nearly have the negative Effeminate image that are attached to so many of us ... which would undoubtedly make coming out a lot easier.

It's no wonder Gay Men are given such a negative stereotypical image. Again, we have those people to thank for making it more difficult than it really should be.

The only thing wrong with the stereotypes of gay men is that they are stereotypes - i.e. assumed to be characteristics of all gay men when we are all free to be ourselves.

It is probably one of the most ridiculously ignorant things I have ever read to suggest that human rights, neighbourly regard, equal dignity and peaceful security depend on the absence of hair colour and moisturiser.

When it comes to equality, people can ask for it wearing a tiara. Homophobic assholes need to learn self-control even around the nelliest flaunting-est queen in the known universe. Can you imagine? Hatred is supposed to get a free pass because of someone's hairstyle, hobbies, or demeanour? That is moronic.

By the way, as long as heterosexuals are allowed to dye their hair, so can the gays.

 

[MystikWizard]

MystikWizard

This is what you had to say about a video you posted with stupid white people in it.


"Doesn't make me look bad. I don't take it personally. I am not taking responsibility for the bigoted attitudes of those hillbillies. Fortunately, a majority of Whites are a lot more intelligent and accepting compared to those inbreeds."

Why can't you have the same attitude (Doesn't make me look bad. I don't take it personally) about swishy gay boys? I think you may have major issues about your own gayness.

And that's a good question. However, being the majority of the population at this moment in time, Whites are extremely diverse in nature from one another, and the public understands that, given the number of Whites in the country.

However, since Gays are a minority, like Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. and acting like Queens only increases the stereotype that much more. Minorities are subjected to stereotypes to a much greater degree, which leads to labeling.

I don't want to be labeled as an Effeminate man. I want to be considered like a heterosexual in every way, except for my Orientation, which can not be changed. However, I can't be viewed the way that I want to be viewed because of guys that go on this Effeminate Act.

And like I said, this makes the coming out process that much more difficult for so many people. If anything, I feel that the people who act like Queens and act Effeminate have prolonged the Gay Rights movement, more than they have helped it.

 

[Apollo]

So let me get this straight. You think that because you aren't a Straight man, that this should immediately equate to acting like a Woman?

I am not putting on an act. I act like most guys act. That isn't by me putting up an image or anything. That is who I am. I have absolutely zero desire to go out in public and demonstrate characteristics of the opposite sex. It boggles my mind that others feel the need to do this, to draw attention to themselves and stand out.

Why do you care that they dress and act the way they want. Many are born a little more feminine then most. Some are comfortable enough to be the way they want to be. You chose to act "normal" they chose not to. It isn't your place to judge them.

My answer to that is that "Times Change". That has nothing to do with Gays marching in a pride parade while carrying dildos, dressing up like women, etc.

If it wasn't for stonewall, there wouldn't be any pride parades. Nor all the advancements we have had in gay rights. If Stonewall had never happened. Times would be changing a lot more slowly.

I doubt the idea of gay marriage would even be on our minds right now. We'd probably still be trying to decriminalize gay sex.

Actually, I am being myself. What a concept!

So why don't you let them be themselves? I like how you preach individualism, but you turn around and try and become "one of the crowd" The feminine queens are practicing individualism more than you are.

Yep. That has done absolute wonders for the image of Gay men, hasn't it? So while you are giving them a Big "Fuck You" and accomplishing nothing by doing it, you are making the teen struggling with his sexual identity because of comments from his peers about the "limp-wristed, feminine fags" that much more difficult.

It is actually the advancement of these feminine queens that are making people more comfortable with coming out. Your not doing anything special to help anyone come out.

Well, I am sure you heard of the old saying "Two wrongs don't make a right." And I feel that the same applies here, as well.

And just becoming "one of the crowd" doesn't make a right, or much of a difference.

I am absolutely convinced that if more Gays would have realistic, heart-to-heart conversations with Heterosexuals about who they are, and how they come to be the way that they are, that we would see a lot more progress and that Heterosexuals would have a much better understanding than what we see today-- Gays acting like Women, Gays carrying dildos and vibrators in Pride Parades simulating oral sex or in some cases ... actually having oral sex, while marching down the street, and in general acting like a Flaming Queen in public.

What isn't to say the flaming queens aren't having conversations with their straight friends? You probably assume they don't have straight friends.

You should read up on Harvey Milk. He wasn't flaming, but he was little feminine. He did more to help homosexuals than you probably could hope to. Hell, more than I could hope to.

The problem is that you have to understand your enemy and be able to put yourself in their shoes. Too many Gays don't want to understand their enemy, and therefore just respond with the big "Fuck You" that you described. That accomplishes so much, doesn't it?

Why? Black people didn't put ourselves into white peoples shoes. We put them into our shoes and showed them what they were doing that was making our lives hard.

They have full rights, we don't. Why are we putting ourselves in their shoes, when they even understand what we go through?

We understand our enemy, most of them are uneducated about our shoes, and they have to be educated. Our real enemies actively practice ignorance and discrimination, and being in their shoes would be more offensive than a seemingly flaming man.

If you can get into the mind of your opponent, and understand the rationale with where they are coming from, you will be in a much better position to respond to them and find ways to appeal to their emotions. And like I said, in many cases, that could simply be talking to them about your life and what it's been like growing up Gay, and how you "came to be Gay". They need a better insight into your life.

How does this equate to being straight acting? Any flaming queen can easily have a honest and direct conversation with any straight person. They would come to know us, and them more importantly better, and all would be good.

Again, I can't help but see the "Fuck You" theme mentioned in your post. Like I said, this attitude does nothing but enflames homophobia, instead of ending it.

What inflames homophobia and ignorance and lack of education. Not feminine men or butch females.

Well, good for you. And while you are doing it, you can continue to fan the flames of homophobia amongst heterosexuals and actually place further burden on the teenage kids who struggle with their sexuality ... who are deciding between telling their parents, or committing suicide.

Kids learn homophobia from their parents and other adults who actively dislike us. And it isn't because of the feminine men.

The only way to stop homophobia is to teach them. Go into the neighborhoods and talk to them and their parents. Whether that is from a masculine man or feminine man doesn't matter. Both are capable of educating. Watching some drag queen on television doesn't inspire homophobia out of nothing.

I wonder why you don't practice individualism and not be concerned about how others choose to live their lives?

 

[MystikWizard]

I'm not surprised about Neoslacker. Sad about Mystik though.

He was so against homophobia and such, and it turns out he is nothing more than a homophobe himself.

If you want to act normal, you might want to give up being attracted to men, and sleeping with men. That isn't normal.
Neoslacker...the jokes write themselves. You give closet cases a bad name.

I am against Homophobia. I am simply smart enough to know that acting like Queens in public actually fans the flames of homophobia, instead of reduces the spread of homophobia.

Coming out is more difficult because of the Queens and Gay Men who act effeminate because of the image they present to the Media, which is then absorbed by Heterosexuals.

 

[bankside]

I am not putting on an act. I act like most guys act. That isn't by me putting up an image or anything. That is who I am. I have absolutely zero desire to go out in public and demonstrate characteristics of the opposite sex. It boggles my mind that others feel the need to do this, to draw attention to themselves and stand out.

You totally cut the legs out from under your own argument with one word: MOST. Not all guys act in a certain way. Most do. The rest are also just being themselves. But you are asking them to put on an act. When they don't, you feel that heterosexuals are entitled to hate them and treat them badly. Not only that, you feel that heterosexuals are entitled to treat you badly as well, and you blame the minority for causing it to happen.

That is screwed up. Seriously give your head a shake.

 

[Apollo]

I am against Homophobia. I am simply smart enough to know that acting like Queens in public actually fans the flames of homophobia, instead of reduces the spread of homophobia.

Coming out is more difficult because of the Queens and Gay Men who act effeminate because of the image they present to the Media, which is then absorbed by Heterosexuals.

A lot of men also come out because they see gay men acting like they want to act without fear of being rejected.

Hell, I would even go out on a limb and say a lot of feminine men help people to come out of the closet. Because they are the most visible, it makes it easier for a closet case to identify them and talk to them about their sexuality.

Not many "normal" acting gay men help closet cases come out. Mostly because no one knows your gay. And how can you help someone if they don't know they can come to you?

Not to say going feminine is the way to go, but just what I notice.

 

[StationToStation]

I'm gonna keep fanning the flames. Some cue Journey. lol Keep on believing . . . .

 

[Ares]

What I'm also doing is pleasing a lot of Gay Men, I'm sure-- Who simply want to come out, but are afraid to because of the image that Effeminate Gay Queens have given to the Heteros, which has only fueled tensions.

With the majority of your arguments, I see where you are coming from, I really do. Except for this part.

You act like a 'normal' guy, it's who you are. You don't have feminine qualities and do the same things that any other strapping young lad would do. Good for you. As long as you keep those qualities after coming out, nobody (in their right mind), is going to expect you to become more woman-like. People who actually know you will know you aren't a 'queen,' so there is nothing to worry about.

The funny thing is, I think we are all arguing the same thing here. People should just be themselves. From what I gather from your last post, you don't think people should act loud and obnoxious just to get attention (similar to what undisclosed was saying) and I agree. And if being yourself includes some hair dye and makeup, then that's great, some people enjoy creativity. Just don't do it for the specific reason of sticking out or for a fuck you to the masses.

 

[G-Lexington]

God, you're gay. It's "DON'T STOP believing..."

Lex

 

[MystikWizard]

With the majority of your arguments, I see where you are coming from, I really do. Except for this part.

You act like a 'normal' guy, it's who you are. You don't have feminine qualities and do the same things that any other strapping young lad would do. Good for you. As long as you keep those qualities after coming out, nobody (in their right mind), is going to expect you to become more woman-like. People who actually know you will know you aren't a 'queen,' so there is nothing to worry about.

The funny thing is, I think we are all arguing the same thing here. People should just be themselves. From what I gather from your last post, you don't think people should act loud and obnoxious just to get attention (similar to what undisclosed was saying) and I agree. And if being yourself includes some hair dye and makeup, then that's great, some people enjoy creativity. Just don't do it for the specific reason of sticking out or for a fuck you to the masses.

But the thing is, I think that is exactly why they are doing it. In their mind, this is simply their way to "rebel" against society. And like I've maintained, this really accomplishes nothing, but gives people a false impression of Gays, as a whole.

 

[Ares]

But the thing is, I think that is exactly why they are doing it. In their mind, this is simply their way to "rebel" against society. And like I've maintained, this really accomplishes nothing, but gives people a false impression of Gays, as a whole.

I don't agree with that. Some of them are like that, of course, but there are some people that are just creative and like to experiment with their look. Similarly, some people's personality just tends to be more feminine. It's not something they do purposely. It's just something that 'is'. (if that makes sense haha)

 

[StlKj]

But the thing is, I think that is exactly why they are doing it. In their mind, this is simply their way to "rebel" against society. And like I've maintained, this really accomplishes nothing, but gives people a false impression of Gays, as a whole.

Oh please. Most of the people who do it aren't doing so to say "fuck you" to society. They're doing it because they want to look pretty.

Who are you to down them for their fabulousness?

God, if Rosa Parks had been gay, you probably would have tried to get her to give up her seat and stop upsetting the status quo.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Oh please. Most of the people who do it aren't doing so to say "fuck you" to society. They're doing it because they want to look pretty.

Who are you to down them for their fabulousness?

God, if Rosa Parks had been gay, you probably would have tried to get her to give up her seat and stop upsetting the status quo.

Well said!

I might also add that, in Portland anyway, a very large number of "straight" boys have fun color in their (sometimes long) hair, wear kilts, have bright tattoos, many flashy piercings, act soft and sweet, and fabulous. It's far too easy to mistake them for gay, here.

As for the Rosa Parks thing. I was thinking the same. I'd like to hear MW tell Blacks to "blend in" and to suppress themselves....

 

[MystikWizard]

Well said!

I might also add that, in Portland anyway, a very large number of "straight" boys have fun color in their (sometimes long) hair, wear kilts, have bright tattoos, many flashy piercings, act soft and sweet, and fabulous. It's far too easy to mistake them for gay, here.

As for the Rosa Parks thing. I was thinking the same. I'd like to hear MW tell Blacks to "blend in" and to suppress themselves....

I have. I never said for Blacks to suppress themselves, but I have indicated my desire to see a colorless society in which everyone essentially naturally blends in with everyone else, which also includes Gays.

Of course, as long as we have Gays looking pretty and generally acting "Queenie", that prolongs this from happening.

Straights don't perceive the Femininity as being Gays saying "Fuck You" to society. So, if that is your objective, it isn't working. Straights perceive it as Gays acting "Gay" (in their mind). And that is what contributes to the stereotypes.

Ultimately, as I have re-iterated many times, this makes things even more difficult for young Gays to come out, because of the negative stereotypes given to being Gay. Obviously, those stereotypes came from somewhere. Thanks, Queens!

But hey, even if the negative stereotypes associated with being Gay increase pressure on young kids struggling with their sexuality ... because of parents who are given the misconceptions about what being Gay is and what Gay people "look like" ....... and if that contributes to teen suicide, then so be it. Right, Queens? As long as you get to give your big "Fuck You" to society (even though it isn't working), and make it even more awkward for people to come out, then none of that matters. You go, girls!!!

(*snap *snap *snap)