Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

[Cormac135]

Oh Jesus, can we get this moved to the religious forum now.

 

[KaraBulut]

The Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Christian bible. It wasn't accepted until the Council of Nicea in 325, from which many, many other Gospels didn't make the final cut of the bible. Today's teachings of Christ are so removed from it's origins that even Jesus himself wouldn't recognize them.

Ah, so the issue is not the texts and the religion, but the convenient reinterpretation of those who have their own agendas, then?

 

[peeonme]

The Trinity isn't even mentioned in the Christian bible. It wasn't accepted until the Council of Nicea in 325, from which many, many other Gospels didn't make the final cut of the bible. Today's teachings of Christ are so removed from it's origins that even Jesus himself wouldn't recognize them.

Orgasms aren't mentioned either, but they happened. Just because a word descriptive of God's revelation of Himself to man was not in the text it doesn't mean that God's revelation was not there.

We also could get into how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. Most main line Christian churches acknowledge a triune God.
But if you don't, then that's your opinion, I respect that the Bible has some ambiguity.

 

[mikey3000]

Of course. Was there ever any doubt? I bet most religious extremists haven't even actually read their 'good books' but instead just believe what others tell them to believe.

 

[peeonme]

Of course. Was there ever any doubt? I bet most religious extremists haven't even actually read their 'good books' but instead just believe what others tell them to believe.

They read the parts of scripture that they are told to read. I became a Christian at 19, I read the new testament at 10 times in the next few years, I have read the OT probably5 times, except the begats and some other areas that drove me crazy as I sifted through them.
Many Pastors disliked me as I knew the bible as well if not better than them, I hate out of context teachings.

 

[mikey3000]

Orgasms aren't mentioned either, but they happened.

They sure were: “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to go into Hell” (Matthew 5:30).

 

[KaraBulut]

Of course. Was there ever any doubt? I bet most religious extremists haven't even actually read their 'good books' but instead just believe what others tell them to believe.

And this is the point of much of the discussion in this thread.

The evidence regarding this shooter shows that he's had some issues that are well-documented back to his days in public schools. Even into adulthood, there's reports that people who knew him had concerns about his anger, his violence, his claims about Islam extremist connections and his attitudes toward minorities, gays and women.

What has happened in the discussion is that different members have latched onto single aspects of the story- the mental health issue, the gun issue, the allegations regarding his sexual orientation, the Islam angle, etc.

It all goes back to human nature- we start with conclusions and then look for evidence that supports those conclusions. Whether it's acts of terror or religion beliefs or personal tragedies- the pattern of inductive reasoning is the same.

 

[mikey3000]

That's why it's best to just stick to the facts. Everything else is hearsay and supposition until actually investigated and verified, which could take years. Stick to the facts.

 

[star-warrior]

Of course. Was there ever any doubt? I bet most religious extremists haven't even actually read their 'good books' but instead just believe what others tell them to believe.

Not to tar and feather a whole faith, but factually, all male muslims read and memorise their koranic texts from an early age, no matter where they are.

 

[kallipolis]

An experienced detective understands that those with a drum to beat will always influence the debate with their prejudices encouraging the curious person to believe the narrative that serves their politically inspired purpose.

In good time the results of the investigations will provide us with an understanding why Mateen committed murder on a mass scale.

 

[peeonme]

They sure were: “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to go into Hell” (Matthew 5:30).

The act might have been eluded to in that verse, but it was not called by any name.
The same goes for the trinity, eluded to, but never given a specific name or title.

 

[KaraBulut]

Not to tar and feather a whole faith, but factually, all male muslims read and memorise their koranic texts from an early age, no matter where they are.

The same is true of Christianity and Judaism.

In Christianity, most children memorize certain verses or attend readings of sections of the Bible. Sometimes there is context and sometimes there is not. One of the inherent problems is that for those children who are taught KJV, it's a faulty translation from archaic languages into an archaic version of English which makes it very difficult to appreciate in context.

Judaism has a mixed bag. For those who attend yeshivas or synagogues where Hebrew is taught, there's a better chance they understand the Torah and other religious texts. But there's still an element of memorization.

The teaching of the Qur'an is the worst of the three. It's in Arabic which is the first language of only a limited subset of Muslims, so it approximates the situation in the early Roman Catholic church when the writings and masses were in Latin, the population was either illiterate or did not understand spoken Latin. The Qur'an is a rambling text that is a transcription of someone's spoken words. Arabic as written in the Qur'an is a very metaphoric language and is difficult to understand for those who are not native speakers. All this leads to a poor structure of religious teaching- the basic teaching of the Qur'an and the religion is left to imams who may have little or no formal training in religion.

Orgasms aren't mentioned either, but they happened.

They sure were: “If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body, than for your whole body to go into Hell” (Matthew 5:30).

Not to pick on mikey3000 but this is an example of how single verses can be taken out of context.

Matthew 5:30 is from the Sermon on the Mount. It's in a section about adultery where Jesus says that sin is not necessary dependent upon an act of sin- that a sin can be a thought or an intention to do wrong. He then makes a metaphor about eye and sin- probably a reference that means "If you look at someone other than your wife/husband in lust, then the sin is that you looked and that act of looking has made you lust after another person". He then makes a similar statement about the right hand.

An uneducated minister could present this verse to congregants, or even to young children in very different ways. For example, the reference of the "right hand" could be a reference that says that touching someone in lust is as bad as the sin of adultery. If could be a reference to theft (which was common in Judaism). It could also be a reference to masturbation. The verse could be taken completely out of context to suggest that someone who has sinned should have their right hand cut off.

One of the problems with having poorly-educated religious instructors is that the instructor can take all sorts of license with how religious education is conducted. And in the case when there's allegorical or metaphorical teaching, a poorly educated congregant could also interpret the verse completely out-of-context and in a way that just supports their own agenda.

Early in the discussion of Mateen's history in this thread, there was a debate about how "Muslim" matten was. For those who know the pillars of Islam, this was an easy question to answer: he wasn't an observant Muslim. And as more evidence comes out, it appears that he was radicalized by clerics (via videos and recording) who have a distorted interpretation of Islam and the Qur'an. He had a long history of being a disturbed, angry and violent person and he found an interpretation of Islam that he probably used as a buffet to pick and chose things that justified his sick thoughts and, eventually, supported his sick actions.

 

[mikey3000]

"How about this? TPTB turn the "Islamic terrorist" thing into a "LGBT thing" to stop voters from going, "Um, yeah, maybe Trump is right," and jumping sides. That's the way I see it. TPTB will stop at nothing to steal votes from Trump. That is your democracy at work."

Oh, I remember and stand by it. How do you get a conspiracy out of this? That is just shear political maneuvering to win over voters. Don't you understand politicking? Or is the term TPTB confusing you? Because that can also mean campaign managers too, a la Corey Lewandowski. Wow, I thought you were smarter than that.

 

[rareboy]

Oh yeah, because the first thing that everyone thought of who went to Pulse was to rush out and say that they remember this guy hanging out there for months and trying to pick up guys because after their friends were murdered....the main thing on their minds was making sure it helped Hillary.

 

[LeicsDom]

found an interpretation of Islam that he probably used as a buffet to pick and chose things that justified his sick thoughts and, eventually, supported his sick actions.

As do all demented religious nuts. They pick and choose the bits that fit into their psychosis

 

[mikey3000]

None the less, what he picked and chose were still on the table.

 

[LeicsDom]

Pulse to re-open

https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/pulse-nightclub-centre-orlando-tragedy-re-open/#gs.wZRVPUg

Best way to combat terrorism and show it doesn't work

 

[TickTockMan]

Re: Pulse to re-open

Damn. Seem so long ago.

 

[Cormac135]

Re: Pulse to re-open

Don't tell you know who.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Re: Pulse to re-open

Don't tell you know who.

No, who do you mean?