Florida High School Massacre

[MakeDigitalLove]

A lot of people want guns banned.
How many people want cars banned ?
Your argument is not equivalent.

And whats wrong with adopting Australian tough gun laws ?

The argument with cars doesn’t even make sense and is never equivalent. Cars aren’t made to be weapons like guns are, in which I will be told I am wrong but when asked what other use does a gun have outside of at least harming a human being, I’ll get crickets.

Plus the fact that you are required to take a written test and a driving test before you can drive a car by yourself. By arguing that cars kill as much as guns, when cars aren’t designed for that and guns are, you are basically arguing that guns should require written tests and gun training.

Though even people are against training and written tests because why not?

 

[gsdx]

Do you also want to require people who want to go to church to prove they are mentally competent?

You do realise that your comparative arguments are becoming ridiculous, don't you?

And once again, NOBODY is trying to take away your right to bear arms. NOBODY. Banning assault weapons does not take away your right to bear arms. Limiting which weapons you can buy does not infringe on your right to bear arms.

 

[opinterph]

It was interesting to watch the President's composure RT.

What what is like? Would you mind elaborating?

The meeting was highly choreographed, but the pain was not.

I think the President felt the pain.

President Donald Trump Holds Listening Session With High School Students And Teachers | CNBC

(CNBC; February 21, 2018)​

 

[luckynumbah7]

The meeting was highly choreographed, but the pain was not.

I think the President felt the pain.

He'll brush it off. Can't be the first time.

 

[TX-Beau]

The meeting was highly choreographed, but the pain was not.

I think the President felt the pain...

Then I'm afraid you're unfortunately mistaken.

 

[opinterph]

When an attacker has a knife, the victim needs a gun …

What would MacGyver do?

 

[opinterph]

… the most popular rifle today, the AR-15, is of rather low power.

What is the unit of measurement?

 

[opinterph]

Do you also want to require people who want to go to church to prove they are mentally competent? And people who want to write for a publication? and people who want to vote? Maybe people who want to have an attorney for trial?

Mental competence is generally assumed unless there are valid indicators to suggest otherwise.

 

[KaraBulut]

We have armed guards for banks. Aren't kids at least as valuable as all that cash?

Apparently not.

Well, not to mention that they had an armed peace officer at Parkland. It seems that he realized that his lowly service pistol was no match for an AR-15 and didn't engage the shooter.

Said peace officer resigned today rather than accept suspension from his job.

So much for the "good guy with a gun" idea.
Armed school resource officer stayed outside as Florida shooting unfolded, sheriff says [CNN]


Incidentally- that bank allegory? It was used by Trump when he met with school shooting victims this week at the White House and then again in NRA executive Wayne LaPierre's speech at CPAC. Wow. Same metaphor being used over and over. What a coincidence.

… the most popular rifle today, the AR-15, is of rather low power.

What is the unit of measurement?

Not body counts, apparently.

 

[KaraBulut]

I think the President felt the pain.

In fairness, I would say the same of Sen. Rubio.

Marco just needs to think about which constituency he's actually representing in this representative democracy of ours.

 

[gsdx]

School kids take on Rubio face-to-face. It will be a crime if these kids don't bring about serious changes to the system.

Student Cameron Kasky did not mince words telling Rubio, "It's hard to look at you and not look down the barrel of an AR-15 and not look at Nikolas Cruz" before asking squarely, "Can you tell me right now that you will not accept a single donation from the NRA?"

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/shooting-town-hall-rubio-defensive-132241282.html

 

[frankfrank]

It doesn't have to be powerful to murder a lot of people in a very short time at a very close range.

You don't seem to get that.

Those who do forensics and ER treatment have said that the injuries from AR-15s are horrific, and seldom survivable if they even have a near-miss to something vital. Injuries from a handgun drill an obvious and well-defined path, with damage only where the bullet itself went.

That is still more than enough to "drop" just about anybody.

Not at all: those countries tend to have actual treatment and help programs. The U.S. approach is to arrest the mentally ill for whatever they can, when they're poor, and throw them in jail, and if they're rich, ignore and make excuses for them ... until they snap.

Not to mention the approach to assure that access to any kind of mental health care is EXCEEDINGLY RARE - by shutting down facilities, allowing it to be very rare for insurance to cover any of it, taking money and grants away from it at an unusual pace (far more aggressively than, let's say, lavishing unlimited $$ on war)...

 

[frankfrank]

And I'll add one more: How is it infringing on your right to bear arms if assault weapons are banned? How?

It ISN'T. If so-called "assault weapons" are banned, and a person still owns a handgun or a hunting rifle instead (which an AR-15 isn't...well OK, it hunts people), he bears arms and his rights are not infringed at all.

it isn't legitimate to require payment in order to exercise the natural right to keep and bear arms.

Wadyawannabet that the funding for arming teachers would be inadequate, and they would have to buy $1,400 weapons right out of their own pockets?

 

[frankfrank]

By arguing that cars kill as much as guns, when cars aren’t designed for that and guns are,

And that's why I say HELL NO for the idea of suing the gun manufacturers.

Their products are doing what they were designed to do.

That said, there seems to be a very real collusion between the NRA and the manufacturers.

 

[gsdx]

It ISN'T. If so-called "assault weapons" are banned, and a person still owns a handgun or a hunting rifle instead (which an AR-15 isn't...well OK, it hunts people), he bears arms and his rights are not infringed at all.

From the same link above:

People stood up and cheered Guttenberg as he challenged the Florida senator to tell him the truth, to acknowledge that "guns were the factor in the hunting of our kids."

Guttenberg added, "And tell me you will work with us to do something about guns."

Rubio responded that the problems laid bare by the shooting rampage "cannot be solved by gun laws alone," drawing jeering whistles from the crowd. He said that if he believed an assault weapons ban "would have prevented this from happening, I would have supported it." That drew jeers. Visibly angry, Guttenberg responded: "That is a weapon of war."

 

[KaraBulut]

School kids take on Rubio face-to-face. It will be a crime if these kids don't bring about serious changes to the system.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/shooting-town-hall-rubio-defensive-132241282.html

Marco has four school aged children. They're probably more in tune with what is going on, so don't be surprised if they help weaken his position. He's sucked on the NRA teat for a total of $3 million dollars, so he's going to be a tough wean, though.

I give credit to Marco for showing up (unlike every state-level official from the governor on down). The students deserve immense credit for calling bullshit and holding his feet to the fire. The optics of it were mixed for the Senator- he needs to wake up because the ground is shifting quickly under his feet.

It's always good to see this kind of democracy in action- where both constituents and politicians show up, listen, explain their positions.

 

[ballcaphair]

I give no backpats to Rubio. He turned up because his constituency (employer) wanted to see him. The dialog is needed, but he slapped these kids in the face. When asked if he'd forgo NRA money, he said "they buy into my agenda, I don't buy into theirs." It would appear that his agenda is pretty awful. I suggest they fire him.

 

[gsdx]

^ If the NRA buys into his agenda, it would seem to me that they share the same agenda.

 

[KaraBulut]

I give no backpats to Rubio. He turned up because his constituency (employer) wanted to see him. The dialog is needed, but he slapped these kids in the face. When asked if he'd forgo NRA money, he said "they buy into my agenda, I don't buy into theirs." It would appear that his agenda is pretty awful. I suggest they fire him.

See that's the thing. Gov Scott pussied out and didn't show. He's terrible in confrontational situations, so he knew better.

Marco is from South Florida and, until now, he's been well-liked in the area.

South Florida is like New York City- blue and ethnically diverse. North Florida is referred to as "south Alabama" and the "redneck Riviera" because it's pretty damned red. Marco tried to give answers that would satisfy both constituencies but he didn't get the tone right. Marco also knows he's in a safe seat and won't face re-election until 2022 (he was re-elected in 2016 with a slim margin- 52% of the vote).

Rick Scott (R) is planning on a run against Bill Nelson (D). Trump has already been hanging out with Scott and Scott's shadow (aka Pam Bondi- the Florida Secretary of State who received a $25K donation from Trump in exchange for declining to prosecute Trump University).

The energy behind this issue will probably keep Nelson in the Senate but it may be forgotten in 4 years when Rubio is up for re-election.

 

[gsdx]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in all this discussion about arming teachers is what do the teachers think of it? And, as this article observes:

The National Association of School Resource Officers, which provides training to school-based law enforcement officers, said it opposes arming teacher. "Anyone who hasn't received the extensive training provided to law enforcement officers will likely be mentally unprepared to take a life, especially the life of a student assailant," it said in a statement Thursday.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/again-could-armed-teachers-stop-173557547.html