Geeks OUT Campaign: Skip Ender's Game

[hylas]

ill probably watch it if the reviews are good (i havent read the book). i certainly wont pay to see it. admittedly, thats a somewhat academic point, since i dont pay for almost all movies i watch. in my defense, im dirt-poor.

 

[Rolyo85]

Although this is a totally shocking confession, it really isn't the issue. The issue is that, as an artist, you have no interest in the diversity of opinions about art itself.

You simply are lobbying against the film, a film which many would have never heard of in their venues, much less seen. And it is your right to do so, but it is disingenuous to pitch the question when you have no interest in the respondents other than to see if they fall in line.

I don't see how it is disingenuous. Have I framed it as a debate topic? No. I posted info about the boycott movement and then asked if people are gonna watch it. I am not pretending this is anything other than what it is. And I am sorry, but this isn't about "diversity of opinions about art itself". And not just because the movie will be a sad failure with or without the boycott (have you seen the trailer?). The reasons for the boycott are outside the sphere of art, and that label can't be a safe haven for bigotry, just because the story itself isn't bigoted.

Orson Scott Card is a vicious 'phobe. He is our enemy, and has said so directly, and multiple times. Why should we support him then? What sort of Stockholm syndrome is this? I mean, other than admitting that homophobia is ok and pretending it's not happening, I don't see another credible reason to support the art of someone who has announced that a government that supports us is his mortal enemy and he will fight to topple it.

Frankly, I find turning this into a purely abstract "art discussion" situation to be the disingenuous approach here. Statements like this boycott have time and again moved culture away from undesirable attitudes and intolerance. And we all know that if Card was racist, he would have been utterly obliterated and this movie would have never even entered production.

 

[blackbeltninja]

Was it an American film? And isn't about 2/3 of the Hollywood production crew population gay?

So don't we win, anyway?

-d-

 

[Rolyo85]

I do not accept the "your money supports bigotry anyway" stance. Sure, you can't know where your dollars will end up ultimately, but there are degrees of separation that you dove have control over. That is not the case here and your snarkiness won't change that.

 

[Negasta]

I will definitely see it, but to keep my money out of homophobic hands, I will use the following method to obtain a copy for viewing...

View attachment 967379

YARRRRR!!!

 

[Musik2400]

Ya I'll probably see it. Thought the trailer looked pretty decent. Besides, when I watch a movie, those credits seem pretty long, so I'm not about to skip a movie I'm interested for one name in that scroll. if that makes me a bad homo, so be it.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Politics aside, I know I'd be cringing through the movie. Running through the back of my mind would be the knowledge that this is that guy's movie who sat on the board of directors of NOM and said things like I shouldn't be permitted as an acceptable citizen. Card's disgusting opinions would haunt my viewing of his work.

I admit it seems strange to me that the issue of Card's bigotry could be so easily disregarded.

I recently decided I didn't want to pay for Tarantino's Django Unchained for similar reasons.

 

[travis82]

The news doesn't bother me. I wasn't planning to watch it anyway.

Saw the trailer and I wasn't really that excited or impressed about it.

Basically, I'm not really a fan of those YA novel genre. Not my cup of tea.

I don't get why Hollywood is so insistent on making all these YA novels movies.

With the success of "Hunger Games", there is more coming...."Catching Fire", "The Mortal Instruments", "Divergent"............

I think most likely, teen girls love this kind of movies... because normally it tend to feature some love triangle...two guys fighting for the love and affections of a girl.

That being said, I avoid it at all cost. I'm not going to sit through a movie where the subplot is about two guys competing for a girl and the whole story centers on her.

 

[blackbeltninja]

I will definitely see it, but to keep my money out of homophobic hands, I will use the following method to obtain a copy for viewing...

View attachment 967379

YARRRRR!!!

Except that by the time our worthless 3rd-tier currency gets over there and is converted, it's not even enough money to buy a bus ticket and so will do precious little to help his cause.

-d-

 

[eastofeden]

The problem I have with it is the DEGREE of his homophobia. He reeks. I probably will never watch it because now that I have read his statements and know the depth of his involvement in discriminating against LGBT people I won't be able to get past that or separate him from his work...and I am fine with that.

 

[Rolyo85]

But the argument to judge art by the artist cannot be a sliding scale.

We cannot waive our objections on topic A but not on topic B.

Either art is art without context, or it is with context. We cannot protest only when it is our pet area of concern.

I'm not in favor of supporting homophobia either, but in a world peopled by 95% of heterosexuals, it is doubtlessly a given that it is happening anyway, and pretty much every day.

It's not the effort that is so objectionable as it is the illusion that it is being somehow accomplished, and effectively at that.

We're gay. We look after ourselves because it's our responsibility. If any of us wishes to stand for others' rights, that's great, but it's not like we're obligated to do it just because we care about homophobia. I know most blacks I've met don't give a shit about gay rights.

Also, I'm just failing to see your point here. Like, at all. What position exactly are you trying to defend? That "homophobia happens", so we should ignore it when we can make a stand?

 

[Rolyo85]

Ya I'll probably see it. Thought the trailer looked pretty decent. Besides, when I watch a movie, those credits seem pretty long, so I'm not about to skip a movie I'm interested for one name in that scroll. if that makes me a bad homo, so be it.

Everyone on the credits has already been paid. The only ones who stand to win or lose from the ticket sales are the producers who should have known better, and Card who I hope does in poverty and completely forgotten.

So, dunno if it makes you a bad homo or not, but that argument simply doesn't play. Everyone responsible for that movie has been paid for their services.

 

[Rolyo85]

I admit it seems strange to me that the issue of Card's bigotry could be so easily disregarded.

I know, right?

 

[Rolyo85]

The news doesn't bother me. I wasn't planning to watch it anyway.

Saw the trailer and I wasn't really that excited or impressed about it.

Basically, I'm not really a fan of those YA novel genre. Not my cup of tea.

I don't get why Hollywood is so insistent on making all these YA novels movies.

With the success of "Hunger Games", there is more coming...."Catching Fire", "The Mortal Instruments", "Divergent"............

I think most likely, teen girls love this kind of movies... because normally it tend to feature some love triangle...two guys fighting for the love and affections of a girl.

That being said, I avoid it at all cost. I'm not going to sit through a movie where the subplot is about two guys competing for a girl and the whole story centers on her.

Ender's Game is one of the most magnificent and significant works of science fiction ever written. It's been marketed to kids as well nowadays, due to the age of the protagonist, but it's not YA at all. The "YA" label didn't even exist when it was written. I feel this should be said.

Card wasn't the raving lunatic he is now when he wrote it. Used to be, I would reread the book once a year :/ I hate him for ruining my love for it.

 

[braex27]

I hadn't planned on seeing it before I found out about OSC and his views on gay marriage.

Now that I know, I am less likely to see it.

I know so little about OSC and only know of his one book being Ender's Game. I am sure there are others, but whatever.

 

[fetaby]

Seeking retribution is not the same as seeking a just society.

But the rub here is that our society isn't just yet. And the writer credited to this film is actively working to make society unjust for LGBT individuals, while at the same time passive aggressively asking for tolerance from the very group of people he is working to oppress.

It becomes a pissing match of my values vs. your values.

And when they are stacked next to each other, and society judges them as society does, que sera sera. But in the mean time, this position of pleading for tolerance from bigots ( yes, BIGOTS) is quickly turning from annoying to laughable.

You want to talk about karmic justice? How's that... When a person puts out such hate that they would involve themselves in an organization that collects money and funnels that money into creating legislation that keeps LGBT people living as second class citizens... that person in turn does not get to pass go and collect the ticket sales to his movie from LGBT people who are informed of the situation... And their friends, and their families, and their Facebook contacts, and their blog buddies, etc. etc. etc...

Your OP is caveated with conditions that you set up as the standard.

Look who's talking.

 

[Rolyo85]

We are at least 15% of the population btw. Just saying.

And I'm sorry if I don't see this whole "oh, so you care about homophobia but not violence against women" argument as anything but laughable. And not only because i absolutely refuse to accept the premise of "gay rights advocates should fight all the battles". First of all, nobody here knows which art I choose to support and which not. Second, I take a stand when I'm informed, regardless of issue. Everyone reading this topic is - by virtue of reading it - informed. Now, if paying people to oppress you doesn't bother you, that's your prerogative. Same way as it's mine to be bothered that you pay people to oppress me.

 

[Musik2400]

We're gay. We look after ourselves because it's our responsibility. If any of us wishes to stand for others' rights, that's great, but it's not like we're obligated to do it just because we care about homophobia. I know most blacks I've met don't give a shit about gay rights.

That's well and good, but if everyone were to simply think this way, where exactly would that get us in our fight against homophobia? Just a thought.

Additional thought, where did you get your stats that "most blacks" don't care about gay rights?

Ender's Game is one of the most magnificent and significant works of science fiction ever written. It's been marketed to kids as well nowadays, due to the age of the protagonist, but it's not YA at all. The "YA" label didn't even exist when it was written. I feel this should be said.

Card wasn't the raving lunatic he is now when he wrote it. Used to be, I would reread the book once a year :/ I hate him for ruining my love for it.

I assume, if you reread it once a year you own (owned) a copy? So by abandoning a story you loved, and refusing to read it again, you've allowed Card and his homophobia to shape you, and change your lifestyle... which (while not in the same capacity) is exactly what he wants to do. At the same time your refusal to read the book you love(d) has absolutely no effect on Card, and he doesn't even realize. So who wins?

Just some more pondering.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Then we fall in line with homophobes who wouldn't go see a production if the director or lead actor was a prominent out gay. Of course, we KNOW we are on the side of the angels, but then again, that is THEIR position too, isn't it? It becomes a pissing match of my values vs. your values.

As for easily disregarding bigotry, that's very selective as a perceived laxity, isn't it? Are we as appalled that Fight Club has a cult following that LOVES the gross and brutal violence it showcased? Are we vocal about the disregard for the depiction of women when a series of superhero movies demotes them back to emotional sex objects with strong wills but little equal importance? Do we bang a drum and demand social redress when Muslims are reduced to cartoonish caricatures by dumb action movies with muscled hero proxies for Americans in insipid displays of xenophobia?

No, we don't really. And as aware viewers and discriminating buyers, gay men don't really represent any significant boycott of any of the other causes described. The effect is that our objections about anti-gay producers just make us look pissy instead of voices of conscience. Seeking retribution is not the same as seeking a just society.

But your comparison with, let's say, a christian, who didn't want to go see the work of a prominent gay director is missing something, isn't it?

It's missing what seems rather plain to me in a more accurate comparison: and that would be an explicitly anti-christian ideology of this prominent gay director.

If a christian cringed over viewing the work of an outspokenly anti-christian filmmaker, I'm rather certain I would understand that. If a christian didn't want to view a movie made by a director who stated that christians ought not be equal citizens of the United States, I'm rather certain I would understand that too. And if for some reason, a christian had enough self-esteem to stick up for themselves and call such an attitude plain old bigotry, I would agree. I hardly think such a reasonable feeling of dignity means one is devolving into a pissing match. On the other hand, it's more fairly described by the language of human rights. My values vs their values? Pffffttt. Our values; none of us ought to tolerate such disgusting bias.

Nor am I sure how you've concluded that "we don't really" engage issues such as sexism and xenophobia. Perhaps we ought to speak for ourselves, or run the risk of seeming unfairly judgmental?

 

[Rolyo85]

That's well and good, but if everyone were to simply think this way, where exactly would that get us in our fight against homophobia? Just a thought.

Additional thought, where did you get your stats that "most blacks" don't care about gay rights?

I don't understand the premise of "if we thought that it is our responsibility to fight homophobia because nobody is gonna fight it for us, where would that get us in our fight against homophobia?" I mean, I'd say it would get us pretty far if we assumed personal responsibility, no?

As for the "stats", notice I have said "most blacks I've met". No stats.

I assume, if you reread it once a year you own (owned) a copy? So by abandoning a story you loved, and refusing to read it again, you've allowed Card and his homophobia to shape you, and change your lifestyle... which (while not in the same capacity) is exactly what he wants to do. At the same time your refusal to read the book you love(d) has absolutely no effect on Card, and he doesn't even realize. So who wins?

Just some more pondering.

That's pretty pointless to discuss really. He didn't want me to not read his work. That's a side effect of the clash between his worldview and who I am as a human being. It's an unfortunate byproduct and I can't force love for a book back after having lost it, now, can I? I don't think this in any way equates to "he has changed your lifestyle". My lifestyle has changed naturally based on my revulsion for that person.