I thought things had gone quiet onthe gun front

[Kulindahr]

^Probably because he's white (and most likely non-Muslim) and I'm saying this not in a provoking way.

The tendency is that when the culprit is coloured, the news almost always instantly labels them as terrorist, but when they're white, then it's either a). mentally disturbed and needs professional help, b). burned out, or c). problem child/person. This white terrorist theory doesn't exist in their minds.

And yeah, still not strong enough an evidence for stricter gun control.

They usually don't call it terrorism unless the shooter is doing it for some "cause". So far, I haven't heard of any clear motive (though on the alt-right it's being called a "false flag" attack orchestrated by the NSA or CIA).

 

[Kulindahr]

It is sad to have to wake up yet to another mass shooting and it is worse than the last time.

It is a shame that we are going to see the same discussions about this topic that we always do but in the grand scheme of things, nothing will change. We are just going to diddle ourselves until the next one.

Nothing will change because Congress doesn't have the balls to take up the militia concept and use their Article I Section 8 authority to impose some discipline.

 

[Kulindahr]

... the NRA. Should have been plenty of those members at a country music concert in Vegas. Wonder why none opened return fire -- that's always their argument for why everyone should be licensed to carry. No heroes, hmmmm.

Really? You expect NRA members to be law-breakers?

The venue there was "gun free". The only people who would have been carrying there would have been law enforcement or some of the few (who despise the NRA as liberal) who ignore the law and carry for personal protection anyway.

Also...

Really? You think anyone who has ever handled a handgun would open fire at that range and altitude deficit? There might be a dozen people in the country capable of even hitting the right room even if they had a handgun powerful enough.



Seriously, the ignorance here is painful.

 

[Kulindahr]

...and of course we will hear how much better it would be if everyone was carrying.....

Only the utterly ignorant would think so. Anyone with the slightest knowledge about guns would recognize the futility of even trying to shoot back with anything less than a high-powered rifle and good skill.

 

[Kulindahr]

My condolences go out to all that have been affected by this tragedy.

I would have hope that the record for murder would have stayed here. These kind of situations keep getting larger and larger. It is sad that deep down I know that it will get worst because that is the way of the world. These things that are happening is worldwide and just not unique to America. We keep saying what needs to be done but people keep electing politicians who do the will of the minority and the majority do not stand up to them.

They get larger and larger because the media de facto urges people to greater heights. Some simple civilized policy would do a great deal here: never publish the name of a mass shooter, never show a picture -- and a great deal of (warped) motivation driving these guys vanishes. As long as they know they're getting "fame", barbarians will figure out ways to hit the top of the "charts".

 

[Kulindahr]

Does anyone know which militia Paddock belonged to?

Heh.

Unless it's an organization with officers and regular training and registered with the appropriate state governor, it doesn't count as a militia in the constitutional meaning of the word.

 

[Kulindahr]

Were there no red flags when this guy was purchasing all pf these military weapons and 1000s of rounds of ammo. It is really fucked up that someone could purchase all of this without questions being raised and asked. The NRA and their leaders and followers should be ashamed.

More accurately, Congress should be ashamed: they have the authority under Article I Section 8 to provide for the discipline of the militia, and that definitely includes anyone with a weapon that can do fully-automatic or "simulated" fully-automatic fire -- and they have not done so. Since Prohibition, the focus has been on the weapons, and not a whit of attention has been paid to the people who use them.

 

[Kulindahr]

No dear. Some people - quite a few people, in fact, seem to be just bigoted fucking assholes with access to guns and the will to use them.

Personally, I consider anyone who would initiate the use of deadly or injuring force against another human being mentally ill.

 

[Kulindahr]

NRA is a lobby organization for the gun manufacturers pretending to be a lobby for gun owners.

They gave $30 million to Trump last year and they spent a total of $54.4 million in the 2016 election cycle to Republicans. They ain't gonna be poor any time soon, especially as long as Americans continue to buy more guns to protect themselves from guns.

Congress ain't gonna do anything until a few of them get fired in 2018:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/

Th only fashion in which the NRA is a "lobby organization for the gun manufacturers" is because they're a lobby for gun owners. The NRA under La Pierre and his PR firm trample on manufacturers almost with impunity, and the manufacturers take it because they know that PR firm can mobilize twenty million Americans to boycott them with just one letter from the Executive Vice President in the organization's magazines.


Oh -- about Republicans: the NRA's political donations used to be fairly even, but the Democrats have turned more and more against the right to keep and bear arms, so the donations have followed suit.

 

[Kulindahr]

I'm trying to understand how this was allowed to happen.

Especially in a hotel that is supposed to be "gun free". How can a business have such a policy and not do anything to give it teeth?

 

[Kulindahr]

we used to have common sense gun laws but the money whore republicans once they were in power reversed them---big money in the NRA---the perverse 2nd amendment interpretation has been know as bullshit for a long time---but there used to be common sense gun laws but now that this country has gone lunatic this will never happen.

Good old Burger, endorsing the racist southern state definition of the Second, dreamed up in order to let the KKK do its thing.

 

[Kulindahr]

Ah, that pesky 'militia' bit - the bit that the gun supporters forget about. That amendment was so vaguely written that it has had Americans arguing for over 2 centuries.

I asked earlier which militia group Paddock belonged to. Nobody can tell me because he wasn't, and I sincerely doubt that those other mass shooters were in a militia, either.

How many more people need to die before someone figures out what the hell the 2nd Amendment means?

The problem isn't the Second Amendment, which as all the rest of the Bill of Rights is meant to protect citizens against government, the problem is that Congress won't exercise its Article I Section 8 authority over the militia -- under which there would be no problem restricting fully automatic (or what the ATF calls "simulated" automatic) weapons to shooting ranges. specifically militia shooting ranges, where militia is defined as the Framers understood it, an organization recognized by local (NOT federal) government.

 

[Telstra]

So people do NOT trust the police saying the shooter did NOT do it.
what can you do ??

That was quick, the video was removed because of what ?

 

[Kulindahr]

The tactical analysis of this on shooting sites has been intense. Some conclusions:

*even if everyone in the crowd had had a sidearm/handgun, it would have made no difference; only idiots (and movie directors) think a handgun could shoot that far and that high up and have any effect at all

*for armed citizens below to have been of any use at all, at least three people with seriously powerful rifles and good skill would have been needed; they could have done suppressing fire and reduced casualties with negligible risk to the intended victims -- but if and only if they'd been able to tell where the fire was coming from, which would have been possible from the observed direction of impacts and then possible muzzle flashes from the windows

*when a business such as the hotel there is supposed to be gun free, it is their responsibility to make sure that it is and remains so!

*we need to see the reported video in order to come to any further conclusions, though the images so far provided do appear to show that he had at least one bump-stock, which (as the ATF puts it) "simulates" fully automatic fire (meaning it isn't really as fast as fully automatic but unless you're in a full-on firefight there's no practical difference)

 

[Telstra]

Really? You expect NRA members to be law-breakers?

The venue there was "gun free". The only people who would have been carrying there would have been law enforcement or some of the few (who despise the NRA as liberal) who ignore the law and carry for personal protection anyway.

Also...

Really? You think anyone who has ever handled a handgun would open fire at that range and altitude deficit? There might be a dozen people in the country capable of even hitting the right room even if they had a handgun powerful enough.



Seriously, the ignorance here is painful.

Their argument was the more guns the safer because they can return fire to shoot the bad guys.
I'm sure hardup was being sarcastic

 

[mikey3000]

And so the conspiracy theories begin

Do you really think all is well in America these days? With all the dirty, dirty politics going on, I truly believe that nothing is below the belt anymore. One just have to imagine why.

 

[Kulindahr]

Their argument was the more guns the safer because they can return fire to shoot the bad guys.
I'm sure hardup was being sarcastic

If he was, then my apologies for the harsh tone.

I've been following this on various gun/shooting sites, where the knowledge level is sufficient that no one would suggest that handguns would be of the least use except in the hands of true experts.

 

[zoltanspawn]

They get larger and larger because the media de facto urges people to greater heights. Some simple civilized policy would do a great deal here: never publish the name of a mass shooter, never show a picture -- and a great deal of (warped) motivation driving these guys vanishes. As long as they know they're getting "fame", barbarians will figure out ways to hit the top of the "charts".

So, a hundred cellphone videos show a massacre widely uploaded to the internet. Everybody in the world is asking why? And "the media" (which isn't us, apparently) is supposed to not publish any information about the shooter?

I think you need to seriously re-think how information works these days. "Fame" isn't just the product of a corporate organized broadcast. It's made up from youtube vidoes, tweets and facebook posts. Even if you somehow took away "the media's" account of the shooter, it would remain on the internet, robust.

 

[zoltanspawn]

Do you really think all is well in America these days? With all the dirty, dirty politics going on, I truly believe that nothing is below the belt anymore. One just have to imagine why.

Keyword. ^

Conspiracies are for losers.

 

[Kulindahr]

Do you really think all is well in America these days? With all the dirty, dirty politics going on, I truly believe that nothing is below the belt anymore. One just have to imagine why.

True enough. The one "WTF?" factor for many people in this is that the shooter was, in fact, attacking people highly likely to be friendly to the idea of armed citizens. It's enough that on the several different sites I've reviewed so far every one has had at least one suggestion that this was actually a "librul" plot to scare people into stampeding toward more gun control -- especially as plainly no one carrying a concealed weapon, even if that had been allowed, would have been able to be of any use.

I'm not familiar with the rifles the shooter actually used, but I'm not certain that even someone with those down below would have been effective shooting back -- he was well over three hundred feet up (32nd floor) and some 1200 feet horizontally from the near edge of the concert crowd. I've never even contemplated taking a shot like that when hunting, though I know a few people who could do it with a high-powered rifle and a good scope. It could have worked as suppressive fire, i.e. making the guy keep his head down and thus reduce the amount of shooting he did... though it occurs to me now that given that he apparently had no intention of surviving, even suppressive fire might not have made a difference and only an actual kill or disable shot would have accomplished anything.