If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

[LuckysRevenge]

No it doesn't.

The need to put masculine implies (according to your logic) that feminine is negative or undesirable.

Masculine and straight-acting are both subjective terms chock full of emotional and psychological baggage.

 

[blackbeltninja]

1. The very need to define your level of gayness/straightness is already suspect. Straight men don't feel the need to measure how straight they are, why should GAY men measure how STRAIGHT they are?!

Have you never picked up a hetero-aimed mens' magazine, like a Mens Health, Maxim, Stuff or FHM, or numerous others? Or never watched mainstream television, or never seen any adverts anywhere, ever?

Heteros define their heteroness, and compare it to each other's, all the time.

-d-

 

[Scealle]

Straight acting is a really weird term so I wouldn't really use that term to describe a masculine gay guy. If a gay guy is not stereo typically flamboyant then he's just gay or normal human homosex to me. To me straight acting usually is when someone tried to act straight or hides their homosexuality by bearding/closeted/ living a double life.I think a lot of gays these days are very masculine or normal/ non stereo typically flamboyant

 

[xbuzzerx]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

1. The very need to define your level of gayness/straightness is already suspect. Straight men don't feel the need to measure how straight they are, why should GAY men measure how STRAIGHT they are?! The distinction IS partly the cause for offense. Frankly, I live in one of the top five gayest neighborhoods in the country and I have honestly not experienced any relevant degree of limp-wristed cliche-queens. Those do exist but their relevance and symbolizing of gay culture is greatly exaggerated by many other gay men so that they can justify hiding they're gay.

I agree the term is bad. What I'm trying to ask is are you inherently offended by someone objectively distinguishing between the effeminate and the masculine, even if that person is doing it with no intention of slighting the other group?

3. Of course words have meaning depending on context. I have called Asians "orientals" when I didn't know the term was offensive. Which is kinda my point. Using "straight-acting" shows ignorance and insensitivity to the very very pregnant subtext of what the term actually says.

I agree but my issue here is that when it's like extracting teeth with no painkillers to ask people to propose alternatives, it does not imply to me the problem is with the term, it implies to me that some people feel incredibly threatened in any context where a distinction between masculine and feminine comes up.

4. Calling yourself a diva, girl and a bitch describes you. Calling yourself "straight acting" describes ME. You're making a general statement regarding what it means to be gay and how it relates to being straight

I agree the term is very open to that interpretation and indeed probably many people who use it do have that intent. I disagree that any distinction of masculine and feminine carries this stigma in intent, by even noticing it whatsoever.

5. Accusing the forum of some gay elitism is unfair. Internalized homophobia is a real and very pervasive thing in the world and to have this argument at all attests to that. We HAVE to deliberately and consciously fight these terms and their usage so that WE can evolve as a minority and stop feeling inferior. Or will you argue that gays in general don't subconsciously feel inferior to straights? Because it's terms like this that do that.

I simply think that I should feel proud of and support someone who has come along his gay path in life as an effeminate man and that I should not be questioned on whether or not I'm attacking people when I'm proud of mine as a non-effeminate man. This thread has been less about all inclusion and more about what suspicions, prejudices and hatreds people automatically assign to people who make the distinction.

People who just don't seem gay wouldn't go out of their way to describe themselves as "straight acting" in my experience. I know I never have, and people don't usually peg me for a homersekshul.

If it's inappropriate to call verbal attention to one's masculinity, it's equally so to call verbal attention to one's status as a queen or a diva or a bitch, because it creates a division and people fall on sides of divisions-- it works both ways. If you want to be seen as a queen (or any other term which I by no means begrudge anyone from embracing) that is fine, so long as you respect my wish to not identify that way.

In that case...the answer is simple. For those of use who wish to describe ourselves as masculine...use the word masculine versus "straight acting". Of course...the term masculine is subjective....

Thank you for the answer.

 

[TX-Beau]

The need to put masculine implies (according to your logic) that feminine is negative or undesirable.

Masculine and straight-acting are both subjective terms chock full of emotional and psychological baggage.

Nope, that "logic" came from your head, and you are responsible for it.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

"Straight Acting" is exactly about how being effeminate is bad. There is simply no other reason to describe oneself thus.

Any person upon meeting you will see you. What your mannerisms are, whether you "fit" a stereotype or not. "SA" is not about rights or meta whatever, it's a label a guy puts on himself, a self stereotype that has to do with how he feels bout HIMSELF.

I could care less about wanting to Help people becoming more accepting - if they ask, I'll do what I can, but other than that, people move at their own speed. This does not negate the fact that there ARE commonalities of experience and issues that recur. He did not invent SA. It's not "just his way."

If he's going to use that term he's going to have to deal with all the baggage it carries. What he's asking us to do is NOT to see him as an individual, but as the stereotype he finds more acceptable than that other one.

Fine. I'll go back to the drawing board here.

Straight-acting is an easy way to say "You can predict my behavior and interests to be what you see in most straight men."

It's not about whether being feminine or masculine is bad. It's just a shortcut so that men seeking someone who appears straight can be drawn to this person's profile.

Your passionate overanalyzing is a waste of energy. It's not that serious.

 

[Kabluey]

It's a cop out - no where near descriptive enough.
Straight acting could mean anything. I want some definites:

Are you Marlon-Brando-acting?

Steve-Carell-acting?

or Not-Particularly-Good-At-acting?

 

[TX-Beau]

You're welcome to that view. It doesn't change the fact that if a shorter, just as apt word came about for describing the same thing, i'd use that without a second thought either.

Thank you.

 

[Rolyo85]

When I describe myself as bookish am I insulting sports fans?

If you call yourself queeny acting are you insulting masculinity?

That is in my opinion an error and a disservice on your part to equate them. Essentially you are saying that a gay man who is not making an intentional effort to fit a stereotype is just faking his lack of stereotypical traits.

If that's your position, fine, but then don't complain when the mainstream stereotypes you, because you have equated the stereotype as being integral to being gay at all.

That's woefully inaccurate. You are comparing random personality qualities with a binary term. When it comes to sexuality, "straight" has an opposite. Only one. And that's the one you're not acting like when you're straight acting.

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

Fine. I'll go back to the drawing board here.

Straight-acting is an easy way to say "You can predict my behavior and interests to be what you see in most straight men."

It's not about whether being feminine or masculine is bad. It's just a shortcut so that men seeking someone who appears straight can be drawn to this person's profile.

Your passionate overanalyzing is a waste of energy. It's not that serious.

I don't agree with your "definition" of SA.

I do find it funny that people keep trying to tell me about loathe this and passionate that - at least twice I pointed out that on the ground this is relatively minor in at least my life, and that net discussions go like this.

I can only conclude that you are trying to mis-characterize my fervor for some mischievous reason of your own.

 

[Rolyo85]

I think you might be conflating a bunch of things into a point nobody made. If some guy wants to play SA - I frankly don't care, it's just going to make me avoid him probably.

Discussion of the term, it's origins, and why it gets used isn't saying that it will bring fire down on our heads.

Straight people don't give a fuck and are NOT going to say, oh look at Bob, he's a "Straight Acting" Gay, they are just going to say he's gay.

On the ground the only people who obsess over this are usually the guys who call themselves SA.

This. A lot. SA is only used between gay men, it has no bearing on straights. And I agree with the rest too.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

I don't agree with your "definition" of SA.

I do find it funny that people keep trying to tell me about loathe this and passionate that - at least twice I pointed out that on the ground this is relatively minor in at least my life, and that net discussions go like this.

I can only conclude that you are trying to mis-characterize my fervor for some mischievous reason of your own.

You don't have to agree with my definition. You're not even using the term. You're trying to tell people how they see and define themselves.

 

[G-Lexington]

It does matter, though. You get like 50 words to play with on these online sites. You could write an essay, or you could write "straight-acting" and we'd all know what you mean, and you'd still have 48 other words to bait your profile with. To me it's a simple transfer of theoretically unambiguous information, not a distinction of us vs them.

Well, as I said in my post, it's a term that will attract eyeballs, and create reactions, both positive and negative. I'm assuming the positives outweigh the negatives, but I don't think you'll be able to convince everybody who has a negative reaction that they're reading your ad wrong.

On that note, I don't think my being straight acting makes me better than you.

I see and hear this comment a lot. And my belief is that it's said far more often than it's meant. You may be completely sincere, but I don't know if everybody who says it is.

Is that any different from being a bigger guy but not identifying and playing the role of a bear or cub? I may be new to the whole homo thing, but I'm under the impression that "bear" is an entire sub-culture of gay. But it doesn't have the same negative connotations attached to it as straight-acting does, even though if someone says "I'm a bear" we all know exactly what he means. So if a guy says "I'm big, but I'm not into the bear thing" are we going to write him off as self-loathing/deluded/smug/your epithet here?

Well, *I* wouldn't, but then again, I'm trying to comprehend the other side through all this. (I personally have little to no response to "straight-acting".) And I'd say a bear would have every right to be offended by "I'm big but I'm not into the bear thing"...not that it's any big deal, as the guy placing the ad obviously isn't going to be interested in him anyway. But back to the point. The guy placing the ad doesn't actually have to say "I'm not into the bear scene". Why? Because if he were, he'd presumably say so. He'd just say "I'm a bear" or "I'm a cub" or whatever he would identify as. I don't know if I'd look at any online ad where a guy said "I'm big" and immediately think "I bet he's got a closet full of leather".

Lex

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Then perhaps a question was skipped. To the question "Are 'trying not to appear gay' and 'not intentionally trying to seem gay', to you, the same thing?" you answered yes. So let me ask this question:

"Are (intentionally or not) trying not to appear gay" and "not appearing gay, without any 'trying' on his part", to you, the same thing?

Lex

I've already answered this in my posts.

 

[Rolyo85]

Society teaches that nerdiness is bad.

I watch tons of sci fi.

Assigning to me participating in persecution or harm to others based on how I self-describe is out of line.

That's not been the case in over a decade. Not since Zuckerberg, Gates, Jobs and all the other nerds became billionaires.

Also, nerds haven't been ostracized from every aspect of life and religion doesn't hate them. False equivalence IS indeed false.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I see and hear this comment a lot. And my belief is that it's said far more often than it's meant. You may be completely sincere, but I don't know if everybody who says it is.

I honestly think that is off the point for the purposes of self description or self conception. Many people could (and do) interpret a white identity as an anti-minority identity, as an example. But I don't think anyone would tell white people they should call themselves black or own their blackness to get away from this.

 

[Rolyo85]

I think the idea is that if you feel the need to MAKE the distinction in the first place - no matter what term you might use - then you are (intentionally or not) drawing a line between yourself and the homosexual community at large. That by feeling the need to mention it, you're saying "Yeah, I'm gay, but I'm not like them." Like a more subtle version of the entire g0y movement.

Lex

My point exactly, and it bears repeating.

 

[xbuzzerx]

That's not been the case in over a decade. Not since Zuckerberg, Gates, Jobs and all the other nerds became billionaires.

Also, nerds haven't been ostracized from every aspect of life and religion doesn't hate them. False equivalence IS indeed false.

Also along with what you're saying, I've seen a decrease over the course of my life in the negative connotation of being gay. That's a good thing, of course.

I think honestly this could boil down to: is it wrong to be (or feel) gay and masculine. Because expression of it seems to be cause for offense.

 

[Rolyo85]

The only reason for that is because guys like you seem intent on smearing the terminology. I'll repeat blackbeltninja's excellent comment:

The terminology is smeared by the homophobic psychology at its very core. We didn't smear it and you can't unsmear it.

 

[TX-Beau]

You don't have to agree with my definition. You're not even using the term. You're trying to tell people how they see and define themselves.

Wow, it's nice to be appreciated.

OH COME ON! What does that even mean. It's pretty much just a wordier version of "you stink."