If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

[Rolyo85]

Let me answer your question with a question.

Why is stereotyping yourself in one set of proscribed, community-approved ways okay, positive and self-affirming, and others are not? Do we agree on those categories?

Because the community as a whole rarely "approves" things based on how they affect minorities. Just because straight people think being straight is better than being gay, doesn't mean WE have to.

 

[Rolyo85]

Lex, the homosexual community at this very moment is not doing a very good job of making me feel welcome or included.

Well, if you act more straight, maybe the straight community will? Or wait, they aren't fooled.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Wow, it's nice to be appreciated.

OH COME ON! What does that even mean. It's pretty much just a wordier version of "you stink."

You have told people who use the phrase SA what they think and why they use it. My post means exactly what it said.
Whether you disagree with their definition doesn't matter because they are using it to describe themselves and only themselves.

 

[Rolyo85]

As blackbelt noted, that its straight and masculine that are not synonymous like you first said, but straight-acting and masculine ARE.

If i then ask myself why i don't just use masculine, its because that doesn't identify someone as gay, it identifies them as male or man-like.

And people on a hook up/dating site/app won't know you're gay already?

 

[TX-Beau]

You have told people who use the phrase SA what they think and why they use it. My post means exactly what it said.
Whether you disagree with their definition doesn't matter because they are using it to describe themselves and only themselves.

A fine non-statement.

Be more succinct - "YOU'RE A STINKER!"

You posses an ignore button if I get too insufferable for you. Be your own man and disappear my opinion, use it.

 

[Rolyo85]

I would if it was linguistically preferential. 'I'm a masculine gay' is 5 syllables 'i'm straight-acting' is 4.

And "I'm masculine" is three. You're already only using this in an environment of exclusively gay men. It's implied you're one too.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

If you mind sparing me the job of sifting through all the essays in this thread, id greatly appreciate it.

I would if it was linguistically preferential. 'I'm a masculine gay' is 5 syllables 'i'm straight-acting' is 4.

So it basically comes down to some of you being real lazy, got it.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Well, if you act more straight, maybe the straight community will? Or wait, they aren't fooled.

Now now, no call for that.

 

[Rolyo85]

But that has the same harmful effect as straight-acting.

Inaccurate. While I agree with others that the need to define your level of masculinity shows a certain level of insecurity, it doesn't imply things about others. It just shows how you see yourself. And that's a HUGE difference.

 

[Rolyo85]

Have you never picked up a hetero-aimed mens' magazine, like a Mens Health, Maxim, Stuff or FHM, or numerous others? Or never watched mainstream television, or never seen any adverts anywhere, ever?

Heteros define their heteroness, and compare it to each other's, all the time.

-d-

No, they really don't. There are degrees of masculinity, true, but once out of high school whether you're an intellectual or a jock, society as a whole doesn't discriminate against you and it's generally only the really low-brow big machos that really insist on proving their machismo. Which, ironically, supports my argument as it shows insecurity.

 

[eastofeden]

Re: If you ever say you are "straight acting" that is a copout

As blackbelt noted, that its straight and masculine that are not synonymous like you first said, but straight-acting and masculine ARE.

If i then ask myself why i don't just use masculine, its because that doesn't identify someone as gay, it identifies them as male or man-like.

In my eyes...the person who identifies as "straight acting" is simply oppressive....my subjective opinion of course. I don't see them as masculine at all. I think a truly masculine man is in touch with his feminine side. That is why I think the term masculine is subjective anyway.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

A fine non-statement.

Be more succinct - "YOU'RE A STINKER!"

You posses an ignore button if I get too insufferable for you. Be your own man and disappear my opinion, use it.

Disappointing. At least you're admitting its your opinion when for a majority of the thread you presented your posts as fact.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

No, they really don't. There are degrees of masculinity, true, but once out of high school whether you're an intellectual or a jock, society as a whole doesn't discriminate against you and it's generally only the really low-brow big machos that really insist on proving their machismo. Which, ironically, supports my argument as it shows insecurity.

So it's only the low-brow? I suggest you get out more. Even the president must show his machismo by playing sports or having a beer.
The emphasis on masculinity is pervasive among heterosexual culture.

 

[G-Lexington]

I was reading a book recently, and in it, a businessman said "I know I'm not supposed to use this term about myself, but I believe it's true - I'm a genius". And it struck me that there ARE terms that we feel it's OK to say about OTHER people, but we feel weird (or even suspicious) if somebody uses it about themselves. It may be that we're skeptical of anybody giving themselves a superlative rating anywhere, or perhaps there are some qualifications we don't feel somebody is qualified to grant themselves. I certainly have no trouble saying somebody is a genius or super-creative or whatever else (assuming I believe it), but I don't know if I'd believe it if somebody told me that about themselves.

And maybe "straight-acting" and/or "masculine" fall into this realm as well. If asked to describe some gay guy, especially to somebody who was specifically wondering if they'd be interested in dating them, I'd probably use the term "masculine" if it fit.

Lex

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Inaccurate. While I agree with others that the need to define your level of masculinity shows a certain level of insecurity, it doesn't imply things about others. It just shows how you see yourself. And that's a HUGE difference.

The very need to say you are masculine implies that you don't want to be seen as feminine. This is the same logic you use to state that "straight-acting" assumes not only a superiority of heterosexuality but also a set of distinct traits that separate people of different sexual orientation.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Inaccurate. While I agree with others that the need to define your level of masculinity shows a certain level of insecurity, it doesn't imply things about others. It just shows how you see yourself. And that's a HUGE difference.

I think if we acknowledge that some gay men feel comfortable and self-empowered viewing themselves in a feminine lens, even including using feminine pronouns for themselves, is a good and positive thing we should accept and celebrate, then the community should also respect people who do not do so. And when we celebrate the former openly it is dishonest to say there's utterly no need for any distinction of any kind or that insecure people only make up that there is ever any call for distinction.

 

[Rolyo85]

You're welcome to that view. It doesn't change the fact that if a shorter, just as apt word came about for describing the same thing, i'd use that without a second thought either.

Your point to buzzer was inaccurate. You argued how using effeminate words were self descriptors but SA was describing you, when that is completely ignoring what SA guys are saying, that IT is a self descriptor too AND FURTHERMORE, your examples as self descriptors can also be perceived as describing ME. The very reason that straight acting came about was probably because some gay guys were sick of being stereotyped in a way that doesn't reflect whatsoever.

The use of the term is being denigrated because of a perception that it undermines effeminate men by some sort of intent, at the same time as effeminate and former derogatory (queer) words are being seen as harmless, despite them doing exactly that to gay guys that can't relate.

I have responded to your point already. Comparing a binary system (straight/gay) with terms that are part of a giant spectrum does not work.

The point being made is that gay guys got sick of being associated with gay culture by straight people and came up with a term that is ONLY used in gay culture and doesn't matter to straight people. Do you not see how ridiculous this is?

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

So a dislike of effeminacy is synonymous with homophobia now??? You see the homophobia in the term straight-acting because you want to

Nope, it is because it is there.

 

[TX-Beau]

Disappointing. At least you're admitting its your opinion when for a majority of the thread you presented your posts as fact.

LOL well at least you're amusing.

Actually if you'd actually read the whole thread you'd realize that there is only one poster I categorized, but by all means don't let that get in the way if your snit.

 

[TX-Beau]

The very need to say you are masculine implies that you don't want to be seen as feminine. This is the same logic you use to state that "straight-acting" assumes not only a superiority of heterosexuality but also a set of distinct traits that separate people of different sexual orientation.

No it doesn't, you are simply wrong, and that's a FACT! Now DON't say it again!