"I'm Not A Homophobe! I Just Don't Believe In Gay Marriage"

[Homothug]

Some people are just ignorant enough to think marriage is a something religion created.

So ofcorse alot of people would object to same sex marriage if they think marriage in itself is a godly act.

As far as myself I am against all marriage same sex or heterosexual. There's really no need for it anymore

 

[zoltanspawn]

What kind of person blithely shares such an opinion with a gay friend?

A stupid one, not a malicious one.

Reconsider her idiocy and then proceed.

 

[Homothug]

Did YOU choose your sexual orientation? If so, care to elaborate on how you went about making that decision?

Not everone is nurtured and/or natured into a orientation.

Some people have chose to be with the same/different/both sex(es) I'm pretty sure it's minority but it's not impossible to do so.

 

[DiamondSkin]

gosh guys.

What I meant was if you just write people off and don't care to talk to them about it you're just as narrow minded as the people your lambasting.

No, it doesn't. It means I have self-respect as a gay person. I wouldn't be friends with someone with racist 'views' either

Seriously, If you can't understand why some people would be against gay marriage then how are you ever going to give a coherent convincing argument to those who don't agree with you?

Okay, I'm really tired of hearing people saying "they just don't agree with you!"

Bullshit. They're discriminating against you. It's not an opinion. It's prejudice.

I can replace the word 'gay marriage' and insert the word segregation and the it still smells bull.

Really? Deleting them off your facebook? Cutting all ties to them once you learn that they don't support gay marriage! WOW .That's a sure fire way to win people to your side in the gay marriage debate. What you're doing is polarizing yourself and the people around you. The more a voter has interaction with homosexuality, the more they will vote/support homosexual legislation. This is because it has something to do with them. No matter what their stance on gay marriage or equal rights is.

You have a point there. I should strive to make my points rather alienate.

The bitch still isn't my friend. We can't be friends. I'll be polite and I'll debate rationally.

But we can't be fucking friends. The friendship is ended. I won't be friends with a homophobe anymore than a racist. No matter how nice they are.

hateful? you think everyone against gay marriage is hateful? maybe it's because they're confused or that its something that personally conflicts with everything they have ever grown up with. Is that really hateful?

Yes and no.

Some racists aren't hateful. Some have strong dislike. Some are ignorant. Some were raised with racism.

It's the same with homophobia.

I'm just saying it's not the same thing as race. Don't make the direct correlation and treat homophobes like racists. There are so many more different angles in realm of homophobia than just prejudice.

This is unmitigated bullshit.

Race and sexual orientation are different. Discrimination, prejudice and denial of civil rights against persons because race or sexual orientation is the same.

You seem to think racism is more 'bad' while homophobia is just a differing opinion.

Back than, people claimed there was all sorts of 'different angles' to be against interracial marriage and it wasn't just 'prejudice'.

In 2009, we recognize it for what it is: racism.

In 2029, i sincerely hope we'll recognize people against same-sex marriage as: homophobes.

Iself-respect my ass, just step out of yourself for once and try to see how and why other people see things. And just because they can't do that for you doesn't mean you shouldn't do it for them.

So, as a black person, I should step out of my race and try to understand why a person is racist? And try to be friends with them?

 

[DiamondSkin]

Not everone is nurtured and/or natured into a orientation.

Some people have chose to be with the same/different/both sex(es) I'm pretty sure it's minority but it's not impossible to do so.

Please elaborate.

Lesbians don't count. Women are funky people

 

[Homothug]

Please elaborate.

Lesbians don't count. Women are funky people

I rather not go off topic and yes women chose to be lesbian one minute and be straight the next but yea women are complicated creatures.

but if you want me to give one example

The Prison population there's plenty of men in there who never thought of having sex with another man intill there stuck in a place where they can't find another woman.

You don't have to agree with me but that's a classic example

 

[hungrybrownbear]

This is unmitigated bullshit.

Race and sexual orientation are different. Discrimination, prejudice and denial of civil rights against persons because race or sexual orientation is the same.

You could be totally in support of everything homosexual and still not support marriage. This is because many mistakenly see marriage only as a religious institution. There is no caveat like this in racial discrimination. This is because there isn't the distinction between sex or sexual orientation in Racism. Obviously its NOT the same. There are so many more unprecedented nuances in this debate. You cannot automatically assume that someone is prejudice towards gays in the same degree as a racist because they don't support marriage.

So, as a black person, I should step out of my race and try to understand why a person is racist? And try to be friends with them?

^If they still wanted to be your friend, yeah. If they're about to lynch you, no. You can show them through who you are, how you act, why their thinking is flawed. This doesn't mean you don't have self respect. It means you understand how to deal with these types of people. You can make it clear that you whole-heartedly disagree with them. The best solutions aren't always confrontational.

 

[DiamondSkin]

I rather not go off topic and yes women chose to be lesbian one minute and be straight the next but yea women are complicated creatures.

but if you want me to give one example

The Prison population there's plenty of men in there who never thought of having sex with another man intill there stuck in a place where they can't find another woman.

You don't have to agree with me but that's a classic example

I wouldn't use prison with as an example.

They're still heterosexual men. The ones who are straight anyway. They don't turn gay in prison.

They just need sex. And they'll find it where they can.

They're have been recorded incidents of men having sex with their dogs, sisters, grandmothers, childrens, etc. in prison-like environments.

It doesn't mean they're suddenly pedophiles or incestors.

 

[DiamondSkin]

Wha??


Do you two honestly believe that about women, that they choose their orientation in a way that men don't?

I believe there are alot of 'fake' lesbians out there. I know many 'lesbians' who don't feel attractive to men or have had a burned experience with a man who 'choose' to be gay.

They're friggin' liars though...

 

[JasunStrikesBack]

You may become a rapist in prison but you don't become gay.

 

[DiamondSkin]

You could be totally in support of everything homosexual and still not support marriage.This is because many mistakenly see marriage only as a religious institution. There is no caveat like this in racial discrimination.

Wrong.

What you don't seem to understand is that the antagonists against gay marriage are plagarizing from the same tactics to use against interracial marriage. It's copy and paste.

They used the Bible (like for slavery....) to argue that God did not intend for races to mix using a few cherry-picked lines from the Old Testament.

Many people who claimed they weren't racist and didn't believe interracial marriage did it for religous reasons as well.

Especially Protestants. My grandfather had a white friend who helped him during the Civil Rights Movement. But he was against interracial marriage. He wasn't a complete racist but he was a racist all the same.

And they're not friends to this day though my grandfather was thankful for his prior help..

^If they still wanted to be your friend, yeah. If they're about to lynch you, no. You can show them through who you are, how you act, why their thinking is flawed. The best solutions aren't always confrontational.

You and apparently have different opinions of the word 'friend'. I'll be polite to a homophobe. I'll be nice. I'll even be courteous. But we're not friends. He or she thinks less of me. He or she thinks I don't deserve equal treatment.

That's not friendship. That's what we call an Uncle Tom.

 

[BabiGayPimp]

The OP is quite correct in asserting that people who oppose marriage equality probably are, at some level, biased against gay individuals. However, I don't believe that sexual orientation is the same thing as racial identity.

I think that sexual orientation more closely parallels gender. People who oppose marriage equality for gays are sexists, not racists. They are guilty of supporting gender discrimination, not racial discrimination.

I suppose what we must ask ourselves next is: "Is sexism as bad as racism." In theory, I suppose it is. But in practice, perhaps not always. I can imagine legitimate and defensible circumstances where gender discrimination might be a necessary evil, even in this enlightened age.

So, in short I could remain friends with someone who does not yet support marriage equality because they are salvageable. They can be won over eventually. They will be won over. Time is on our side. I can forgive, because we'll win in the end.

Racists, on the other hand are a lost cause. I have no use for them.

 

[Homothug]

Wha??


Do you two honestly believe that about women, that they choose their orientation in a way that men don't?

Well I've heard alot of lesbians say out their mouth that they rather deal with women because they have been raped by men, abused by father or just straight up didn't liek the way men treated them in past relationships.

I mean they had to make somewhat of a choice to stop dealing with men start playing for the beaver team.

With gay men it's either their born or nurtured into them being gay. As far choice I guess a straight man can have sex with with men and still be straight, the same way a gay men can have sex with a woman and still be gay. But who really knows but the person themselves cause at the end of the day these labels reallty doesn't really define anyone.

Anyway back to the topic if you really feel that its worth losing friendship over because she doesn't think gay people should marry then I guess stop being friends. I don't why any person would just say that to someone gay though and not expect it to be an issue so she deserves it I guess for not keeping it to herself. but atleast try to understand why she thinks that way and then try to argue why it's wrong.

Again homophobe is the fear of gay peopel maybe she is just ignorant to how marriage started as something economical and not religious (duh that's why the state or gov't needs to be involved for the marriage to be valid)

 

[hungrybrownbear]

Wrong.

What you don't seem to understand is that the antagonists against gay marriage are plagarizing from the same tactics to use against interracial marriage. It's copy and paste.

They used the Bible (like for slavery....) to argue that God did not intend for races to mix using a few cherry-picked lines from the Old Testament.

Many people who claimed they weren't racist and didn't believe interracial marriage did it for religous reasons as well.

Especially Protestants. My grandfather had a white friend who helped him during the Civil Rights Movement. But he was against interracial marriage. He wasn't a complete racist but he was a racist all the same.

And they're not friends to this day though my grandfather was thankful for his prior help..

People twisted the New Testament. The modern day perception of slavery is not the same thing as Biblical slavery. The slaves back then were more of indentured servants. The Bible did not advocate racism and if back then if people would have studied it a bit more closely they'd realize that (e.g the Samaritan Women at the well)

Christianity is not the only religion that has a seemingly anti-homosexuality stance. Most structured religions have the same view.

You and apparently have different opinions of the word 'friend'. I'll be polite to a homophobe. I'll be nice. I'll even be courteous. But we're not friends. He or she thinks less of me. He or she thinks I don't deserve equal treatment.

That's not friendship. That's what we call an Uncle Tom.

In their minds you're forcing them to conform to your definition of marriage. Vice versa. Doesn't mean that he thinks you deserve or don't deserve equal treatment. It just means you are on different planes of thought. Just because they aren't going to full on accept such a drastic change doesn't mean they don't think you deserve equal treatment. Their argument is that you can get married to a woman if you want. Equal, right? Not really, but it doesn't sink them down to the same level as racism.

 

[sabot3ur]

My brother, who is gay, doesn't believe in gay marriage. Does that make him homophobic?

no, just stupid.

 

[Orlandude]

Some people are just ignorant enough to think marriage is a something religion created.

So ofcorse alot of people would object to same sex marriage if they think marriage in itself is a godly act.

As far as myself I am against all marriage same sex or heterosexual. There's really no need for it anymore

You actually raise an excellent point. While I do believe in marriage, gay or straight, it was the religious right that twisted this whole thing into a controversay when there shouldn't be one. To them, it is yet another nail in the gay coffin, prescribed by them. To them, "marriage" is religious act. What they never talk about is that it's also a CIVIL matter. You DO have to have a marriage license from the state to be legally married, in most cases. Organized religion doesn't want to hear that. All they want to see is the religious aspect of marriage and brainwashed their followers to think the same. Thus you have people who have a religious "conflict" with gay marriage. They believe that it's wrong because marriage is suppose to be between a man and a woman. By whose standard? That's bullshit. This is the last vestige for the religious right. In fact, the entire matter of gays is their last hurrah. For centuries, they used their pulpits to denigrate people of color and make women second class citizens all "in the name of everything that is holy". Holy my ass! Racial discrimmination is now ILLEGAL. Discrimminating against women is also ILLEGAL They have nothing left but the gays and they are fighting tooth and nail to preserve their hypocrisy. No surpise that organized religions continue to lose flock. It's the same with their rejection of scientific FACT about the origins of man and this planet. They reject it all because it diminishes their power and purpose.

"Marriage" is not the exclusive domain of the heterosexual world simply because some moron screaming from a pulpit says so. Equal rights MEANS Equal Rights under the law, not from the pulpit. If someone can't accept gay marriage then they don't accept marriage. The track record of marriage in the heterosexual world is pretty dismal so they have no room to exclude gays who welcome it and have a RIGHT to it.

 

[Homothug]

I would assert that these women are HIGHLY anecdotal and do NOT represent the whole of gay women.

It is a VERY slippery slope when you start believing that one sex is different from another in terms of orientation and choice.

And I DO think this is very on-topic, as what we are discussing-- at heart-- is prejudice and misunderstanding.

I didn't mean all woman but there are some women that I heard say this when describign why they are a lesbian

and I just think if a woman can easily just turn to women for intimacy because of a bad experience when they were young or whatever why can't some men

I think it's pretty naive to think that there aren't certain people that can chose an sexual orientation.

There's people who may be dominated by homosexual urges but chose to not have sex with men, have sex with women and live an heterosexual lifestlye.

Would you just call this person a gay man anyway (and how would you know better yet how would he know he think he's straight)

I really don't think that it's so impossible as you think it is.

There may be true bisexuals who chose to be stricky hetero because it's more convientent (which alot of bi's do) or gay because it's more fun and a less hassle dealing with men then women (which I know someone who did this)

Not everything is so black and white when it comes to the human race especially sex because sex is more psycholocial then physical.

 

[KnightRider]

I agree with Diamond Skin. This friend of yours needs to lose some friends over her bigoted views on marriage. You mentioned another gay friend of yours will still be her friend, so let him work on changing her mind on marriage. You are better off without people like this in your life. Anything less is being something of an Uncle Tom.

 

[Seasoned]

We get to chose our friends, usually based on similar likes and dislikes. Friends are added and dropped throughout life. Why should it be ok for a friend of mine to be able to marry unlimited times while I can't marry once? If my friend can't or won't understand this, how am I going to remain friends? Gay marriage is our current equal rights fight. How this became a subject for referenda is beyond me. How far would any civil right have gotten if we left it up to a people's vote? Would we still be drinking out of separate water fountains?

 

[pocono]

Marriage seems to be the difficult word.

I started to think maybe the government needs to get out of the marriage business all-together. Think about it. The government gives out birth and death certificates and even a driver's license- when you turn 16. Meanwhile churches have baptisms, funerals and confirmations.

Maybe...just maybe we should try to get the government to issue "union certificates" that merge the assets and health care and other items of two individuals (gay or straight). Then it would be up to the individuals to find someone (almost anyone) to "marry" them. They could have it done at a church or maybe just do a ceremony themselves with no one officiating.

I know because of our traditions and systems this will never happen, but it is too bad everyone is going nuts over the word marriage. I have a feeling most folks wouldn't care about melting together assets and such.

Just one person's opinion.