It's not the guns.

[KaraBulut]

This is exactly the mistake people on the left always make.

It's not really a left-right issue. Because we have a largely civilian population who never served in the military and we have a big gap between people in rural areas who grew up hunting and using guns, it's easy to reduce it to "left vs right". It's really more about people who are familiar with guns vs those who don't know much about them.

The argument on the other side isn't about need at all. No one is hunting with an AR-15. That's never been the point of having one. You can talk about how dangerous they are all day long, and that will only justify having them in the minds of people who buy them. The point is how dangerous they are.

I've been hunting with people who brought an AR-15. Part of their reasoning was that they wanted to be able to take down feral hogs that they might encounter (something that assault weapons are NOT designed to do in spite of the gun industry's marketing). They did shoot the AR-15 for sport but they did also use it for shooting deer. After seeing the condition of the deer, it became apparent to me that this wasn't the best choice if you're actually planning to eat what you catch. Looking around at other hunters, I saw a lot of excessive weaponry and lots of military camo being worn, so there's a lot of guys out there on some sort of weekend warrior trip with their big toys.

The statistics say that there's a few people who own a lot of these guns. They're collectors. There's not a logical reason why they want to collect these guns. But if you look at how the gun industry has marketed them, they have been marketed as hunting guns and as home protection devices. You are correct that the weapon was designed for one purpose- the Army wanted a gun with a large magazine that could penetrate a helmet. And that's the point- these guns were designed from the start to kill people.

You want to stop people from buying them, not only do you have to have a ban, you have to address why they want one in the first place, because I guarantee you that a ban isn't going to stop the determined, and while easy access is certainly unwise and should be curtailed, the underlying issue will be there until we stop blaming the tool used to pursue it for everything.

The AR-15 isn't responsible for most of the gunshot deaths. Handguns are. About 2/3 of those deaths are suicides. Handgun deaths are something that we can do something about because they are so closely associated with mental health issues or crimes of passion.

There's not much that we're going to be able to do with semi-automatics and assault weapons. Since 2004, there's been close to 4 million of them sold in the US. Overall, the long gun market grew 3% since 2004; the "modern sporting weapon" market grew 40%. Guess which segment the gun industry was making the most money on?

We've seen what just one of these weapons can do. Imagine the killing that can happen now that there's millions of them in circulation. There's no mental health solution to these mass shooting events. When someone decides they want to kill people in large groups quickly, we've just provided a more efficient means for them to do so.

We've long passed the tipping point. As troubled as I am by the civil liberties issues, it's either going to have to be that the bullets are banned or the existing weaponry has to be taken out of circulation.

 

[Sausy]

I've made this point before... for the Second Amendment extremists, they are dedicated to the idea that having access to the semi-automatics protects them against tyranny of government... they believe the government can one day come for their weapons and the Second Amendment gives them the right to be as well armed as possible against a possible government crackdown, they essentially believe they have the right to the kinds of weapons to the greatest extent possible that is available to the military. The see themselves as ready to form modern day militias against the government. Their reading of the Second Amendment is extreme, and it's going to be very difficult to face them down especially with the corrupt leadership of the NRA and the Republican Party and hard right groups.

 

[opinterph]

I guarantee you that a ban isn't going to stop the determined

And that determination is a community standard in some locations. There is enthusiastic agreement that “we should all be armed and ready.”

lots of military camo being worn

Military camouflage clothing provides an excellent functional value. It is both durable and cost-effective.

bullets are banned

Are you speaking of a certain type or caliber~ or just all bullets generally?

 

[KaraBulut]

Military camouflage clothing provides an excellent functional value. It is both durable and cost-effective.

And it makes every day Hallowe'en!

Are you speaking of a certain type or caliber~ or just all bullets generally?

If there was an interest is taking the effectiveness out of the 4 million AR15 type assault weapons, it would require restricting sales of .223 Remington bullets since these are the recommended ammo for that particular weapon. The military uses the same weaponry- labeled as M4/M16- so you would still have to continue manufacture of the bullets but- like grenades and tank shells and other Title II weapons- you wouldn't have it on store shelves and accessible to the civilian public.

Unless someone wants to spend a few billion on repealing the 2nd Amendment (and reversing Heller), you're still going to have a right for citizens to own handguns and long guns for their personal use and there's no reason to restrict bullets for those guns.

 

[KaraBulut]

Well, one source of AR15s is going away...

Colt will stop making AR-15 rifles for consumers [CNN]

Colt, the manufacturer of the AR-15 rifle, has announced it's exiting the consumer rifle market as demand for high-powered, semi-automatic guns wanes.

The consumer market for rifles has "experienced significant excess manufacturing capacity" and there's too much supply of AR-15 guns on the market to justify making more, the company said in a statement. Colt will still manufacture other consumer guns, including pistols and revolvers, and it will continue to expand its network of dealers.

 

[Stardreamer]

I just started seeing this commercial playing on YouTube between videos, I don't know how many TV stations are carrying it but OMG!!!!

WARNING: THIS IS INTENSELY DISTURBING!

 

[KaraBulut]

Common sense questioning of lack of common sense:

 

[TX-Beau]

That moment was pretty revealing. That asshole knows he's a liar.

 

[KaraBulut]

That moment was pretty revealing. That asshole knows he's a liar.

I admire anyone who shows up for a debate about issues.

Where it all fell apart is that he showed up with talking points from the lobbyists. Those talking points couldn't help him answer the key question: "If the shooter is the problem, not the gun that is in the hand of the shooter is not the problem, then how does removing background checks, eliminating permitting and invalidating red flag laws accomplish anything toward preventing shooters from getting guns?"

There isn't an answer to that question because there's no facts to support what the gun lobby is paying politicians (and the judiciary they appointed) to do.

 

[TX-Beau]

You're kinder than I. This is a case where the messenger is just as guilty. I don't believe he showed up to debate. He was going to push his talking points, which he knows are killing people. It's impossible not to know, and whatever ideological fig leaf he was using to justify this to himself, Stewart ripped right off. Stewart didn't let him obfuscate, dodge, draw false equivalencies, or start telling irrelevant horror stories. These people don't ever debate. Because the basic premise of what they push is only that X paid me to say Y and I can stay in power.

It's why the right rarely wants to debate anything or be interviewed by anyone that is not an ass-licking lackey, they are aware of their own hypocrisy and deceit for the most part and understand there is no denying it. Look at Ron Dishonest (thank you toad.)

The naked deception around his petty sanctimony about "protecting children" from Drag is vomit-inducing.

 

[KaraBulut]

I didn't see much coverage on the national news but the Nashville shooting seems to be awakening school-age activism, much in the way that Parkland awakened students in Florida.

Protests in the Tennessee State Capitol last week:

Today, students walked out of class to protest en masse:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7217955259506003246

https://www.tiktok.com/@amarch4ourlives/video/7217944862056910122?lang=en

 

[smokeshadow]

it didn't go well for Legislative supporters of the protestors

Tennessee House Speaker Kicks Democrats Off Committees Over Gun Violence Protest – and May Expel Them

The Republican Speaker of the Tennessee House of Representatives, Cameron Sexton, on Monday stripped two Democratic state lawmakers from all their committees and subcommittees in retribution for their support of massive protests by thousands of Tennessee citizens at the state Capitol last week...

www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com

 

[KaraBulut]

it didn't go well for Legislative supporters of the protestors

Tennessee House Speaker Kicks Democrats Off Committees Over Gun Violence Protest – and May Expel Them

The Republican Speaker of the Tennessee House of Representatives, Cameron Sexton, on Monday stripped two Democratic state lawmakers from all their committees and subcommittees in retribution for their support of massive protests by thousands of Tennessee citizens at the state Capitol last week...

www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com

My money is on the kids. They're about to be out of school on summer vacation with a lot of time on their hands.

Tennessee has been a largely white Republican state. These antics by their leadership is just making new Democrats in the under 30 crowd in a state where the demographics in the under 50 crowd is increasingly brown and black.

 

[TX-Beau]

My money is on the kids. They're about to be out of school on summer vacation with a lot of time on their hands.

Tennessee has been a largely white Republican state. These antics by their leadership is just making new Democrats in the under 30 crowd in a state where the demographics in the under 50 crowd is increasingly brown and black.

Yet more reasons why the trogs will try to compromise the system.

 

[KaraBulut]

$144.5 million of taxpayer money, yet the gun companies still have immunity...

DOJ reaches tentative $144.5 million settlement with victims of Sutherland Springs church mass shooting | CNN

The US Department of Justice on Wednesday announced it had reached an "agreement in principle" to settle claims from the November 2017 mass shooting at a Sutherland Springs, Texas, church for $144.5 million, according to a news release.

www.cnn.com

A federal court in 2021 ruled the US government was liable for damages caused by the shooting, in which 26 people were killed and 22 others wounded. The Air Force, a judge concluded, failed to exercise reasonable care when it didn’t submit the shooter’s criminal history to the FBI’s background check system, which increased the risk of physical harm to the general public.

 

[rareboy]

America is first and foremost about socializing the losses and the damages. So broken.

And one of the reasons why?

Because gun manufacturing employs people. And the state would rather pay out with imaginary money than sacrifice a single job in this industry.

 

[KaraBulut]

A quote from the Tennessean regarding the 3 Democrats being expelled for protesting gun violence. This quote should also be posted in the Deplorables thread:

Tennessee GOP begins expulsion process for 3 Democrats, House session devolves into chaos

Tennessee House Republicans on Monday introduced resolutions to expel three Democrats for \

www.tennessean.com

"We had a child molester on the floor for years, they helped him get reelected and did nothing to expel him," Johnson said. "We've had members pee in each other's chairs. We've had members illegally prescribe drugs to their cousin-mistress, and nothing happened. But talk on the floor without permission, and you'll get expelled."

 

[cityboy-stl]

There is only one thing every mass shooting has in common.
Yes. It is the guns.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Follow the money and it all makes sense.

Smith & Wesson moving into new Tennessee headquarters in late 2023

A gun-making company older than the Civil War will soon start calling Blount County home.

 

[rareboy]

Follow the money and it all makes sense.

That's what I pointed to above. The weapons industry means jobs. And pols of both parties will do whatever they can to protect those jobs.

Because America no longer needs ploughshares.