Mass shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando Florida: Political Discussion [SPLIT]

[vulgar_newcomer]

-They still haven't found his wife either. The FBI just happened to loose her?
-No Orlando 911 calls have been released to the press, yet most other mass shootings do so almost immediately.
-Don't even hear a peep about this shooting anymore? The largest mass shooting in U.S. history?
-fake doctors Lube and Cheetham, didn't even exist before the shooting.

Everything is so bizarre.

Maybe in Toronto but locally, regionally the Pulse Massacre is daily news.

 

[Kulindahr]

And this too is very interesting...

Seddique Mateen, the father of terrorist Omar Mateen, who was responsible for the largest mass shooting in U.S. history, was yesterday front and centre of a Hillary Clinton rally in Kissimmee, Fla. No joke! while Hillary went on about how she stands united with Orlando, Mateen was almost in the front row. When questioned as to why he was there, he was like, "Wha, it's a public event and I want to show my support for Clinton." Showed absolutely no shame at all.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...y-clinton-rally-kissimmee-20160809-story.html

And it's shocking how this occurrence is NOT being reported by main stream media in the U.S. Man, this shit keeps getting weirder and weirder.

It was on ABC News last night. One pint made was that he has apparently been under surveillance (FBI??) and may have somehow been violating a law to even be at the rally, or (they weren't terribly clear) security should have been alert to stop him.

 

[Kulindahr]

-They still haven't found his wife either. The FBI just happened to loose her?
-No Orlando 911 calls have been released to the press, yet most other mass shootings do so almost immediately.
-Don't even hear a peep about this shooting anymore? The largest mass shooting in U.S. history?
-fake doctors Lube and Cheetham, didn't even exist before the shooting.

Everything is so bizarre.

People don't like being reminded that the government is not able to protect them, and especially that the government, according to the courts, has no responsibility to do so. Any many people don't like being reminded that in many cases, the government requires them to be unable to fight back. The media doesn't want such issues to be in front of people for long, either.

 

[Kabluey]

People don't like being reminded that the government is not able to protect them, and especially that the government, according to the courts, has no responsibility to do so. Any many people don't like being reminded that in many cases, the government requires them to be unable to fight back. The media doesn't want such issues to be in front of people for long, either.

I've made the point before that part of protecting people is preventing others who want to do harm from having access to the tools to do so.

Try buying large amounts of fertiliser without going on a watch list.

 

[TX-Beau]

People don't like being reminded that the government is not able to protect them, and especially that the government, according to the courts, has no responsibility to do so. Any many people don't like being reminded that in many cases, the government requires them to be unable to fight back. The media doesn't want such issues to be in front of people for long, either.

Spare us the whine, you have no constitutional right to put us all in more danger because you have an irrational minuteman fetish. IF the government comes for you THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN FUCKING DO ABOUT IT.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

No, you are mangling the texts.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say you can't question it! That claim is made only by fundamentalist sects and Rome.

Nor does the Bible "mandate fundamentalism" -- in fact it endorses the allegorical method, which fundamentalism excludes.



Nazism was an eruption of the old pagan religions, arguably foretold by Nostradamus.

Actually the Bible demands blind obedience to it and to shirk off anything that contradicts it.

Next your assertion on Nazism is bullshit. Hitler was an avowed Roman Catholic. He regularly praised Christianity, used historical Christian Jew hatred to back his beliefs oh and was anti gay. Most Pagan religions are actually pro gay. They have gay gods etc, meanwhile the Abrahamic god is a single male deity who avowedly condemns homosexual relations. Nazism is a byproduct of Abrahamic religion just as Communism, Fascism etc. Sad thing is though that Christianity basically conquered Europe through forced conversions that it infects even post Christian society.

 

[Kabluey]

Actually the Bible demands blind obedience to it and to shirk off anything that contradicts it.

Next your assertion on Nazism is bullshit. Hitler was an avowed Roman Catholic. He regularly praised Christianity, used historical Christian Jew hatred to back his beliefs oh and was anti gay. Most Pagan religions are actually pro gay. They have gay gods etc, meanwhile the Abrahamic god is a single male deity who avowedly condemns homosexual relations. Nazism is a byproduct of Abrahamic religion just as Communism, Fascism etc. Sad thing is though that Christianity basically conquered Europe through forced conversions that it infects even post Christian society.

No sane person, Christian or otherwise offers blind obedience to anything.

If you really want to believe everyone with Christian beliefs (or any religious beliefs) has such a myopic view of the world then that says more about your myopia than anything else.

The problem is absolutism, and I'm afraid you veer close to it by condemning otherness so keenly.

 

[KaraBulut]

People don't like being reminded that the government is not able to protect them...

The shame is that we even have to feel like we need protection.

Here's a novel idea- a society where one can go to a school, a club or a workplace without fearing that one is going to be shot. And maybe even a society where the mentally ill get the treatment they need and don't have the guns that they shouldn't be able to get?

The autopsies do not contain any surprises, but they put into detail the graphic nature of the victims' deaths.

Wounds were suffered throughout the bodies from the head to torso to toe.

Of the 18 autopsies released on Monday, all but two of the victims had multiple gunshot wounds. One man was shot 10 times, records show.

In all, the 49 victims suffered more than 200 gunshot wounds.

In the continuing analysis of the autopsies:

From the Orlando Sentinel: Final autopsies of Pulse victims released

From the Miami Herald: Autopsies: A third of Pulse nightclub victims shot in head

How Families Are Reacting To The Pulse Night Club Autopsy Release

 

[Mariatenebre]

No sane person, Christian or otherwise offers blind obedience to anything.

If you really want to believe everyone with Christian beliefs (or any religious beliefs) has such a myopic view of the world then that says more about your myopia than anything else.

The problem is absolutism, and I'm afraid you veer close to it by condemning otherness so keenly.

I never stated that all Christians or all Abrahamics hold complete blind obedience to their beliefs. Many reject the negative teachings of their religions that does not change the fact that the texts themselves mandate absolute obedience.

 

[kallipolis]

Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

...................

 

[mikey3000]

So, with the release of the actual 911 calls from Omar Mateen which clearly state his reasoning and devotion to ISIL and do not mention homosexuality at all, is this shooting still considered an act of homophobia or terrorism? I lost track.

 

[Kulindahr]

^
Islamic homophobic terrorism.

 

[kallipolis]

So, with the release of the actual 911 calls from Omar Mateen which clearly state his reasoning and devotion to ISIL and do not mention homosexuality at all, is this shooting still considered an act of homophobia or terrorism? I lost track.

For the dead victims it matters not, what Omar Mateen believed when murdering them.

What is clear is Mateen targeted gay people, at a gay bar...leading one to suspect that he was homophobic.

 

[Kulindahr]

For the dead victims it matters not, what Omar Mateen believed when murdering them.

What is clear is Mateen targeted gay people, at a gay bar...leading one to suspect that he was homophobic.

Since he pledged allegiance to ISIS, saying he was homophobic is essentially redundant. OTOH, perhaps a distinction could be made that homophobia is an internal, sort of "gut" reaction, and he might have been acting out of a sense of "duty" or a desire for status in his supposed paradise.

 

[kallipolis]

Since he pledged allegiance to ISIS, saying he was homophobic is essentially redundant. OTOH, perhaps a distinction could be made that homophobia is an internal, sort of "gut" reaction, and he might have been acting out of a sense of "duty" or a desire for status in his supposed paradise.

No it is not for Mateen specifically targeted gay people, at a gay bar.

Had Mateen killed his victims, randomly your assertion would make sense...for example the IS supporter using a truck to mow down dozens of pedestrians, randomly on the prom in Nice, France.

Your contrarian input is noted.

 

[Kulindahr]

No it is not for Mateen specifically targeted gay people, at a gay bar.

Had Mateen killed his victims, randomly your assertion would make sense...for example the IS supporter using a truck to mow down dozens of pedestrians, randomly on the prom in Nice, France.

Your contrarian input is noted.

Fail in both understanding English and in logic. For your assessment to be correct, it would have to be the case that ISIS doesn't regard gays as any different than, say, bankers.

ISIS hates gays. Thus to call someone who pledges allegiance to ISIS "homophobic" is redundant -- that descriptor is already contained in the allegiance to ISIS.

Mowing down random people would be contrary to my assertion because it would demonstrate lack of hatred for gays.

 

[kallipolis]

^Random mass murders are an indication that in the Nice massacre the IS supporter was determined to murder people at random.

In the case of Mateen his plan was to murder gay people, at a gay bar. He succeeded.

That Mateen swore allegiance to IS is evidence that he had been radicalised.

 

[Telstra]

Fail in both understanding English and in logic. For your assessment to be correct, it would have to be the case that ISIS doesn't regard gays as any different than, say, bankers.

ISIS hates gays. Thus to call someone who pledges allegiance to ISIS "homophobic" is redundant -- that descriptor is already contained in the allegiance to ISIS.

Mowing down random people would be contrary to my assertion because it would demonstrate lack of hatred for gays.

How do you come to this conclusion "mow down random people would demonstrate lack of hatred for gays"?
It doesn't demonstrate anything .

 

[Telstra]

Also,
it is strange, this mass shooting at Pulse seems so long ago now.
Just a bleep in history and most people will forget soon ...

 

[Kabluey]

^Random mass murders are an indication that in the Nice massacre the IS supporter was determined to murder people at random.

In the case of Mateen his plan was to murder gay people, at a gay bar. He succeeded.

That Mateen swore allegiance to IS is evidence that he had been radicalised.

I assumed he just claimed IS so in his mind to the public he'd appear to be some kind of tough terrorist guy, not a self-loathing gay mass murderer who went on a rampage for liking dick.