Mass shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando Florida: Political Discussion [SPLIT]

[kallipolis]

I assumed he just claimed IS so in his mind to the public he'd appear to be some kind of tough terrorist guy, not a self-loathing gay mass murderer who went on a rampage for liking dick.

Agreed....

 

[mikey3000]

I think the LAST thing the LGBT community needs is another gay (internalized homophobic) mass murderer amongst out count. We have enough. I don't want this cause celebre. Evidence shows he was an Islamic terrorist, I'll accept that. Plain and simple.

 

[Benvolio]

I think the LAST thing the LGBT community needs is another gay (internalized homophobic) mass murderer amongst out count. We have enough. I don't want this cause celebre. Evidence shows he was an Islamic terrorist, I'll accept that. Plain and simple.

He no doubt had both motivations and they complement each other. Islam is anti-gay and Anti American which supported his self loathing, denial and feelings of guilt.

 

[Kabluey]

I think the LAST thing the LGBT community needs is another gay (internalized homophobic) mass murderer amongst out count. We have enough. I don't want this cause celebre. Evidence shows he was an Islamic terrorist, I'll accept that. Plain and simple.

So you'd prefer to blame terrorists than address homophobia.

Well that'll solve the problem...

 

[mikey3000]

How about address terrorism in America, why isn't that a choice? Shouldn't national security be a priority? Without national security, just imagine the homophobia that will exist via radical Islam. Omar Mateen did pledge allegiance to ISIL before he slaughtered 50 of our gay brothers, and he did it in the name of Allah.

 

[Mariatenebre]

How about address terrorism in America, why isn't that a choice? Shouldn't national security be a priority? Without national security, just imagine the homophobia that will exist via radical Islam. Omar Mateen did pledge allegiance to ISIL before he slaughtered 50 of our gay brothers, and he did it in the name of Allah.

The problem is you have so many Liberal gays who say that this attack had nothing to do with Islam but with "homophobia." However ignore that Islam teaches and mandates homophobia both the Quran and Hadith mandate that homosexuals be killed and that is a fact. One of the hadith states that when a man mounts another man the throne of Allah shakes. This guy was confirmed to have ISIS ties and was even associated with the terror group responsible with the San Bernadino shootings. I recently lost a friendship with a stupid regressive left SJW who kept lying that this attack had nothing to do with Islam and while I made it clear that not all Muslims are evil and I do not hate them all and many disregard the negative aspects of their religion. The fact is that Islam is a homophobic religion as are all of the Abrahamic religions regardless of whether individual people among these religions may be homophobic or not. Once more this ex friend of mine had no problem speaking about the homophobic of the religion he grew up in Mormonism but when it came to Islam was all up in this whole Islam has nothing to do with homophobia bullshit.

Everyone knows he was a self loathing closet case but what the regressives fail to ask is why he was self loathing and it is because he was raised in the homophobic religion of Islam.

 

[Kabluey]

Doesn't need to be another opportunity for people to grind their axe against others' competing religions.

 

[gsdx]

I still think Omar's declaration was a cop-out. He was known to frequent the club. I still believe he was so self-hating, not able to deal with his own overpowering cravings, that he finally snapped. Killing the lifestyle he feared so much was simply destroying the temptation. In the end, the only way he could deal with his actions was to lay the blame on ISIL.

By the way, read your history books. Rabid homophobia was around for ages before 'radical Islam'. Thousands of gay people died, but nobody cared. We were not even people to them. But, since 9/11, 'normal' people were being targeted. And they still are today. This is not a war against homosexuals. It is a war against Americans. Omar has taken the spotlight away from that fact because of his own self-hatred.

 

[KaraBulut]

Everyone knows he was a self loathing closet case but what the regressives fail to ask is why he was self loathing and it is because he was raised in the homophobic religion of Islam.

Almost everything you've posted above is incorrect and counter to the actual facts of the investigation.
In fact, the FBI specifically has stated:

The FBI, however, has been unable to verify that Mateen used gay dating apps and instead has found evidence that Mateen was cheating on his wife with other women.

Co-workers had warned that Mateen had claimed connections to the terrorist groups Al Qaeda and Hezbollah, and that he wanted to die as a martyr, the Sheriff’s Office told the FBI...
The agent was skeptical that Mateen posed a real risk. When Mateen said he was a member of Hezbollah, a Shiite group, and had family ties to Al Qaeda, a Sunni group, it was clear he didn’t know or care they were bitter rivals, the senior FBI official said.
Even so, the agent realized that people becoming radicalized don’t always understand the fine points of jihadist politics, two FBI officials said....
Mateen admitted to the informants that he had claimed terrorist ties at work. But he said he had been joking, trying to scare co-workers who had bullied him for being a Muslim...
It was true: When FBI agents interviewed Mateen’s co-workers, they admitted they had teased him about his religion...
“They were being jerks,” said a U.S. counter-terrorism official who also spoke on condition of anonymity. “He wasn’t making that up. He wasn’t paranoid.”...

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-fbi-investigation-mateen-20160712-snap-story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nvestigation-Orlando-shooter-Omar-Mateen.html
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html

I still believe he was so self-hating, not able to deal with his own overpowering cravings, that he finally snapped.

After the shootings, there was an attempt to explain the inexplicable. What would drive someone to kill so many people? Why would someone who had a wife and a child do something that he had to know would result in his death? Why would he dishonor his family?

The two theories that made the rounds immediately afterward were that he was a self-hating gay and he was a radicalized Muslim. What the investigation has found doesn't support any simple answer.

He was heterosexual. He had been having affairs with women, even though he was married. He never made any homophobic statements before the shooting or during the shooting. After the shooting, the claims that he was on gay social apps or had affairs with men were disproved.

He seemed to be targeting White and Latino people at the Pulse, even apologizing to hostages who were Black. He shot both men and women.

He wasn't particularly devout and didn't seem to have much knowledge of Islam. He had been watching beheading videos and watching videos of anti-Western clerics. He had been taking his son to mosque for prayers but wasn't particularly active at the mosque nor was he connected to another member of the mosque who had been radicalized.

He had a long history of behavioral problems and anti-social tendencies going back to his days of attending high school in NYC. In the past, he had made outlandish statements when he was teased or threatened. But he was not paranoid and it was clear that he knew that the claims he made were false.

Unfortunately, he didn't leave a manifesto or anything that would explain his behavior or his motivation. This lack of clear explanation has left room for a lot of speculation. The truth is that we may never know what was going on in his head.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Doesn't need to be another opportunity for people to grind their axe against others' competing religions.

Worst part is if these people actually cared about Terrorism they would be talking about any individual(s) that were attempting or did it. I can't remember where but 3 men who were planning to attack Syrian Refugees after election day and plant anti-american propaganda to make it look like they hated Americans. I remember I did post it here, but of course none of these regulars talked about it at all.

All these individuals reveal is that they are racist and xenophobic.

 

[KaraBulut]

Getting back on topic, some follow-up articles:
Orlando Officers Grapple With Trauma and Red Tape After Massacre
Orlando hospitals say they won’t bill Pulse shooting survivors
Last Orlando Shooting Survivor Discharged From Hospital
Pulse survivor cheated death several times before rare condition killed him

 

[Kulindahr]

How about address terrorism in America, why isn't that a choice? Shouldn't national security be a priority? Without national security, just imagine the homophobia that will exist via radical Islam. Omar Mateen did pledge allegiance to ISIL before he slaughtered 50 of our gay brothers, and he did it in the name of Allah.

Address terrorism in America? Never gonna happen -- for starters, that would mean requiring the two big political parties to stop funding hate ads, but they thrive on hate. It would also require applying truth in advertising laws to political campaigns and a truth in broadcasting law to end lying by news organizations.

Only when Americans realize that truth is a virtue and hate is not will we ever be able to address terrorism in America.

 

[Kulindahr]

T
....
One of the hadith states that when a man mounts another man the throne of Allah shakes.
....

Maybe there should be a "Shake the Throne!" day every month till it topples.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Almost everything you've posted above is incorrect and counter to the actual facts of the investigation.
In fact, the FBI specifically has stated:


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-fbi-investigation-mateen-20160712-snap-story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nvestigation-Orlando-shooter-Omar-Mateen.html
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html


After the shootings, there was an attempt to explain the inexplicable. What would drive someone to kill so many people? Why would someone who had a wife and a child do something that he had to know would result in his death? Why would he dishonor his family?

The two theories that made the rounds immediately afterward were that he was a self-hating gay and he was a radicalized Muslim. What the investigation has found doesn't support any simple answer.

He was heterosexual. He had been having affairs with women, even though he was married. He never made any homophobic statements before the shooting or during the shooting. After the shooting, the claims that he was on gay social apps or had affairs with men were disproved.

He seemed to be targeting White and Latino people at the Pulse, even apologizing to hostages who were Black. He shot both men and women.

He wasn't particularly devout and didn't seem to have much knowledge of Islam. He had been watching beheading videos and watching videos of anti-Western clerics. He had been taking his son to mosque for prayers but wasn't particularly active at the mosque nor was he connected to another member of the mosque who had been radicalized.

He had a long history of behavioral problems and anti-social tendencies going back to his days of attending high school in NYC. In the past, he had made outlandish statements when he was teased or threatened. But he was not paranoid and it was clear that he knew that the claims he made were false.

Unfortunately, he didn't leave a manifesto or anything that would explain his behavior or his motivation. This lack of clear explanation has left room for a lot of speculation. The truth is that we may never know what was going on in his head.

I am pretty sure it was shown that Mateen was a regular at the Pulse nightclub and had an ex male lover who spoke about him. In fact it was thought he did this for one reason because one of his lovers might have given him HIV. Either way his father was a Taliban supporting Muslim who stated that gays deserved to be punished so it is clear he got his anti gay ideas from Islam.

I still think Omar's declaration was a cop-out. He was known to frequent the club. I still believe he was so self-hating, not able to deal with his own overpowering cravings, that he finally snapped. Killing the lifestyle he feared so much was simply destroying the temptation. In the end, the only way he could deal with his actions was to lay the blame on ISIL.

By the way, read your history books. Rabid homophobia was around for ages before 'radical Islam'. Thousands of gay people died, but nobody cared. We were not even people to them. But, since 9/11, 'normal' people were being targeted. And they still are today. This is not a war against homosexuals. It is a war against Americans. Omar has taken the spotlight away from that fact because of his own self-hatred.

Radical Islam began far early then 9/11. Islam was radical when it was founded by Mohammad. Mohammad stated that homosexuality was a terrible sin that caused the destruction of the people of Lut and mandated that homosexuals be put to death. Abu Bakr aka the father of Mohammad's child bride Aisha had gays burned alive. Ali aka Mohammad's son in law had gays stoned and thrown off of tall buildings. Now yes homophobia existed before Islam it was found in Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism being the first religion to speak against homosexuality. However Islam was killing gays long before 9/11 was a thing.

Maybe there should be a "Shake the Throne!" day every month till it topples.

I would love that. I would love if there was a major pushback against Islam by gays instead of being regressive apologists for the religion. This is how I picture Allah on his throne when constantly threatened by gay men fucking.
https://lh3.ggpht.com/V6JdOP1dsg7--biDLAUagkh3wRW6k7-q7FfWvZ_bwb_-PPQbrlSF1cVNdTVz9einaDo=h900

 

[KaraBulut]

I am pretty sure it was shown that Mateen was a regular at the Pulse nightclub and had an ex male lover who spoke about him. In fact it was thought he did this for one reason because one of his lovers might have given him HIV.

I provided supporting sources. The links in the post explicitly refute those rumors and confirm that the FBI investigated all of those rumors and found them to be false. They also found no evidence from his phone or computer to support the rumors, either.

Either way his father was a Taliban supporting Muslim who stated that gays deserved to be punished so it is clear he got his anti gay ideas from Islam.

Seddique Mir Mateen is a lunatic. But it's incorrect to categorize him as a "Taliban supporting Muslim".

The theme of the videos is consistent: Mateen is an unabashed Afghan nationalist with a visceral hatred of Pakistan. The so-called Durand Line, a 19th century border between the two countries, is a subject of frequent, heated discussion. Mateen styles himself as a kind of peacemaker—in at least one video he offers up a detailed peace plan for the two rival nations.
But he can be wildly inconsistent, too, at one moment praising the Taliban—the militant group that sponsored al Qaeda before 9/11 and continues to attack U.S. forces—and then condemning them for their violent acts.
Lately, the videos have taken on a delusional tone. Mateen has appointed himself president of Afghanistan and has posted to his Facebook pages the names and photos of people he claims are serving as ministers in his cabinet. Recent videos on his Facebook timeline show Mateen wearing camouflage fatigues and saluting the camera...
there’s nothing in the videos that suggest Mateen was a religious fundamentalist. His diatribes are more nationalist and engineered for self-aggrandizement and political effect.

Source

 

[kallipolis]

^Despite understanding that Mateen was not a "practising Muslim" one would need to ask why Mateen specifically targeted gay people, socialising at a gay bar when Orlando is filled with regular bars whose customers are recognisably White, or Latino who you state were his primary targets.

There is much we don't know, and probably will never know. On this we can agree.

 

[KaraBulut]

^Despite understanding that Mateen was not a "practising Muslim" one would need to ask why Mateen specifically targeted gay people, socialising at a gay bar when Orlando is filled with regular bars whose customers are recognisably White, or Latino who you state were his primary targets.

The title on that last article from the Washington Post is "FBI has found no evidence that Orlando shooter targeted Pulse because it was a gay club".

Mateen didn't live in Orlando. He drove 2 hours from Fort Pierce to Orlando the night of the shooting. It's not clear that he had been to the club before although he had made several trips to Orlando (home of Disney and several amusement parks) with his family.

There is much we don't know, and probably will never know. On this we can agree.

We're trying to get into the head of a madman. If the motive were clear, the FBI would have been able to make an announcement shortly after the killings.

The opposite has happened- statements made by the Justice Department in the days after the shootings were later recanted as the FBI investigate began to eliminate the theories.

Many people have held onto those early theories because they're easier to understand- that he was a closeted homosexual, that the crimes were motivated by homophobia, that he was a terrorist inspired by Salafist Islam. As the investigation has gotten further into Mateen's background no clear motive has been established. And you're right- we may never know why he chose Pulse and what his motivation was beyond his deranged obsession with Daesch and his underlying psychological issues.

 

[kallipolis]

^Notwithstanding the FBIs various public announcements it is clear that an out of town resident of Fort Pierce drove to Orlando to target and murder gay people, socialising at a gay bar.

One might be forgiven for believing that Mateen's murderous action was not random, and that...

...there was purpose to Mateen's "madness" that had a specific connection to the gay customers of Pulse bar, while understanding that Mateen's motive remains a matter of speculation.

 

[Benvolio]

^Notwithstanding the FBIs various public announcements it is clear that an out of town resident of Fort Pierce drove to Orlando to target and murder gay people, socialising at a gay bar.

One might be forgiven for believing that Mateen's murderous action was not random, and that...

...there was purpose to Mateen's "madness" that had a specific connection to the gay customers of Pulse bar, while understanding that Mateen's motive remains a matter of speculation.

Yes but it cannot be sheer coincidence that his religion and culture hate gays. He may have additional personal motivation, but Islam is no doubt part of it.

 

[KaraBulut]

^If we follow you logic through, then Christians should also be motivated to kill gay people... and Orthodox Jews, for that matter. You are trying to apply your personal bias and prejudice to come up with a conclusion that fits your worldview. Unfortunately, there's little evidence that supports your statement.

Since we know that his interest in Islam didn't go much beyond attending mosque weekly, his understanding of Islam was probably not much better than yours. There's no evidence that he had any specific animosity toward gay people and he knowingly shot women, although from the account of several of his victims, he specifically excluded Black people, saying "'I don't have a problem with black people. This is about my country. You guys suffered enough." Source.