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Mass shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando Florida: Political Discussion [SPLIT]

Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Alnitak said:
Well we wouldn't be here, unless you're full blooded Native American.
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Notice, I said it serves no United States purpose. Nor did immigration serve a Native American purpose.
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Much of the problem is with Islam itself. Muslims believe that the religion and government are one or at least joined. Therefore, democracy is inconsistent with Islam. Polls show that Muslim coming into the country, and other western countries, believe that Sharia law should be imposed.http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...ation-surging-america-99-support-sharia-law/A famous Pew poll showed that most Muslims in the world believe that a person who converts away from Islam should be executed. Islam believes that it is the one true religion and therefore Muslims have the right to impose Islam upon everyone. So while it is true that all Muslims are not violent terrorists, they are hostile to free institutions.
Unfortunately, liberals hate whites, Christians, Americans, and are so thoroughly trained in tit-for-tat thinking that they we cannot defend our country.
 
You have made a generalisation as if all Muslims concur with your ignorant understandings.

You are referring to extremists that exist in every religion, and political ideology.

You really need to leave your home and meet people, especially Muslims and learn that people are individual human beings, not a mass produced robotic production sharing a plot to take over the world at gun point.

The Orlando murderer would appear to be a mentally deranged loner intent on making a name for himself. His former wife states categorically that her former husband was not a religious person.
 
kallipolis said:
You have made a generalisation as if all Muslims concur with your ignorant understandings.

You are referring to extremists that exist in every religion, and political ideology.

You really need to leave your home and meet people, especially Muslims and learn that people are individual human beings, not a mass produced robotic production sharing a plot to take over the world at gun point.

The Orlando murderer would appear to be a mentally deranged loner intent on making a name for himself. His former wife states categorically that her former husband was not a religious person.
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I understand your reasoning. Let's bring in millions of muslims because they are not all terrorists. They don't all mutilate their daughters. They don't all hate Christians. Let's bring them in and then find out which ones are terrorists after they bomb or kill.
But, you miss my point, which is that Islam itself is the problem. Historically, Islam has been aggressive against the West and it still is. No purpose of the US or its people is served by immigration.
The CDC estimates 500000g girls at risk for mutilation in US.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/20...-reaching-out-about-female-genital-mutilation
 
Benvolio said:
I understand your reasoning. Let's bring in millions of muslims because they are not all terrorists. They don't all mutilate their daughters. They don't all hate Christians. Let's bring them in and then find out which ones are terrorists after they bomb or kill.
But, you miss my point, which is that Islam itself is the problem. Historically, Islam has been aggressive against the West and it still is. No purpose of the US or its people is served by immigration.
The CDC estimates 500000g girls at risk for mutilation in US.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/20...-reaching-out-about-female-genital-mutilation
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I am providing statistics that refute your prejudiced offering here, that has reached obsessive, compulsive levels:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/non-mu...0-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

Read this article, and learn something of value.

I quote:

U.S. News and World Report noted in February of this year. This article predates the Orlando massacre.

Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database, we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims.

In other words, approximately 2.5% of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.* This is a tiny proportion of all attacks.
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You are usually more logical than this kallipolis. it is irrelevant that most attacks are by non-muslims. It is nevertheless true that some terrorist attacks are by muslims. If we bring in muslim immigrants, some, or their children, are likely to commit terrorist acts. Those attacks are avoidable by not allowing those immigrants.
No purpose is served by bringing them in, and the risk of terrorism is increased.

What this case does prove, is that no screening is likely to end the threat. The FBI investigated twice in response to complaints, and he succeeded in flimflamming the FBI.
 
Not letting him, with a history of spousal abuse, have access to assault weapons would have been a start.
 
While Trump is criticized for capitalizing on the tragedy, liberals have been quick to promote their anti-gun agenda as well. In March, I said: "

Benvolio said:
But , as I have pointed out the democrat's seeming indifference to internal Muslim terrorists makes them vulnerable. Any terrorist incident will help Trump and hurt the dems. No I don't want it to happen and I hate that we are bringing in thousands of Muslims
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"

Trump's opposition to terrorist immigration has been his strongest point, and her greatest weakness.
This tragedy underscores the fact that "investigating" and "screening" will not be much protection. Omar was twice investigated by the FBI, and people around him knew he was unstable and hostile.
 
Benvolio said:
You are usually more logical than this kallipolis. it is irrelevant that most attacks are by non-muslims. It is nevertheless true that some terrorist attacks are by muslims. If we bring in muslim immigrants, some, or their children, are likely to commit terrorist acts. Those attacks are avoidable by not allowing those immigrants.
No purpose is served by bringing them in, and the risk of terrorism is increased.
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Distraction replies indicate that you have nothing to say, in reply to the statistics that I have provided for your education.
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Benvolio said:
It is not hatred to want to limit the risk from muslim terorrists, by limitimg the continued influx.
If he had not used a gun, a bomb would have done as much or more damage, and easier to bring into the club. It is not a problem to be solved by confiscating the guns.
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This is not about confiscating guns. The Orlando killer bought his guns a few days before the attack. The unassailable fact that no Republican or NRA fanatic will admit is that, had the Republican Congress not allowed President Bill Clinton's assault weapons ban to expire in 2004 when Bush was president, the Orlando killer would not have been able to purchase the AR-15 type gun that is so deadly. Neither would the Newtown-Sandy Hook School killer, and neither would the Aurora, Colorado killer. Perhaps they would have been able to kill, but with a shot gun or hand gun, the death toll would have been much reduced.

Anti-gun control Republicans and the NRA have the blood of thousands on their hands.
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Kulindahr said:
The only gun laws "rolled back" hadn't had any effect on crime or violence of any kind, according to the government's own figures.

Why do liberals insist on laws that make people feel good but have no effect? Attacks like this have happened in Europe as well, so all the European gun laws haven't kept anyone safe.

This is religious terrorism come to our shores. It was inevitable. And as was noted in this thread already, everything the law enforcement people could do didn't matter one bit to the fifty dead. So who's responsible for the dead? Two: the gunman, and the people who required people at night clubs to be defenseless.
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Gun laws in Belgium are notoriously lax. Belgium also has a dysfunctional government because of the ethnic differences in the population. Indeed, they were unable to even form a government for over two years. As a result, Belgium had a government unable to adjust itself to the need to address terrorism and prevent guns from falling into the hands of terrorists. Europe has open borders, so Belgian Islamic terrorists were able to bring deadly weapons into France and commit the atrocity at Bataclan.

Sounds an awful lot like the United States. A dysfunctional, Republican controlled Congress refuses to pass common sense gun control legislation, and the open borders between states means states like New York, Illinois, California, that have sane legislators and governors are powerless to protect their citizens because of the NRA dominated state governments in other states.
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

Kulindahr said:
Most of the time, the only thing that stops these bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. Thus, the rational response is to make sure that there are good guys with guns ready all over the place.
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This is the most ridiculous argument gun apologists make. Nidal Hassan shot 43 people, killing 13 of them, at Ft. Hood. For those of you who do not know, Ft. Hood is a military base. EVERYONE there had a gun and extensive military training in how to fight and operate a firearm, but it did not prevent mass murder.

What good would additional armed people have mattered in the dark theater in Aurora, Colorado or in Pulse nightclub? There still would have been mass carnage. Who would an armed civilian in a dark night club or theater shoot? They would be unable to see the shooter. Such nonsense.
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

sumtingwong said:
Not just the Mohammedans, the ILLEGALS also secretly DESPISE us as most of them are devout Catholics.
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So you want to ban Muslim and Catholic immigrants? Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously?
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

palemale said:
This is not about confiscating guns. The Orlando killer bought his guns a few days before the attack. The unassailable fact that no Republican or NRA fanatic will admit is that, had the Republican Congress not allowed President Bill Clinton's assault weapons ban to expire in 2004 when Bush was president, the Orlando killer would not have been able to purchase the AR-15 type gun that is so deadly. Neither would the Newtown-Sandy Hook School killer, and neither would the Aurora, Colorado killer. Perhaps they would have been able to kill, but with a shot gun or hand gun, the death toll would have been much reduced.

Anti-gun control Republicans and the NRA have the blood of thousands on their hands.
Click to expand...

Dead on...........
 
frankfrank said:
Um...doesn't Florida have its Stand Your Ground laws and, actually, perhaps the least-restrictive gun laws among the U. S. states?

Also, I thought I heard they DID have an armed person situated inside the Club, but that didn't really do anything to stop the shooting, and I thought I heard somewhere that he was shot/injured(?) early in the chain of events. There are conflicting reports, though I admit I don't hear as many conflicting reports from this as I usually do from horrific man-made tragedies. (Think of NineOneOne, already so many years ago, when initial reports were saying there were more than 11,000 killed.)
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Yes, there were armed people in the club, but they were well-identified, so they were early targets.

What's truly tragic is that it took the SWAT team three hours to decide they were ready to go in. So the killer could have had a civil war single-shot bolt action rifle and had time to kill fifty people!

SWAT should show up and get in there. Instead they serve to protect their own safety more than the citizens.

Shame.
 
Re: Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

palemale said:
This is the most ridiculous argument gun apologists make. Nidal Hassan shot 43 people, killing 13 of them, at Ft. Hood. For those of you who do not know, Ft. Hood is a military base. EVERYONE there had a gun and extensive military training in how to fight and operate a firearm, but it did not prevent mass murder.

What good would additional armed people have mattered in the dark theater in Aurora, Colorado or in Pulse nightclub? There still would have been mass carnage. Who would an armed civilian in a dark night club or theater shoot? They would be unable to see the shooter. Such nonsense.
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People on military bases don't carry guns. Except for security personnel, they're gun-free zones.

If you honestly believe what you wrote, then why aren't you advocating to take away guns from police and the military? If guns are ineffective, we should get rid of all of them.
 
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