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My Illegal Amnesty Issue Hypothesis

BTW -- I haven't heard any amnesty proposals out of Congress;

Then you havent' been listening. We have some 12 million people in this country who broke our laws getting here. Any proposal which gives them a pass and moves them to the head of the line amounts to amnesty. "a rose by any other name" is still a rose, and it stinks to high heaven.
 
BTW -- I haven't heard any amnesty proposals out of Congress;

Then you havent' been listening. We have some 12 million people in this country who broke our laws getting here. Any proposal which gives them a pass and moves them to the head of the line amounts to amnesty. "a rose by any other name" is still a rose, and it stinks to high heaven.

So if they were rounded up and sent to prison for five years, then let out and allowed to stay, that would be "amnesty"?
 
So if they were rounded up and sent to prison for five years, then let out and allowed to stay, that would be "amnesty"?
__________________


Of course not, but that's not what the current proposal is all about.
 
BTW -- I haven't heard any amnesty proposals out of Congress;

Then you havent' been listening. We have some 12 million people in this country who broke our laws getting here. Any proposal which gives them a pass and moves them to the head of the line amounts to amnesty. "a rose by any other name" is still a rose, and it stinks to high heaven.

I think what some of the guys are trying to ask you here is, "What would you propose?" :confused:

As some comedian/satirist/talking-head/pundit recently said, 'We can't even take care of a few hundred thousand people in New Orleans, but we're going to somehow round-up 12 million illegals and ship them back to Mexico?'

For me part of "securing our borders" is by knowing who's already here.

The only way practical way that I can see, is to give some sort of incentive for those individuals to step forward.

I'm not necessarily advocating a "path to citizenship," but how are we going to round up 12 million illegal immigrants, if we're not sure where they're at, and who they are?

This is one of the reasons why I hold the entire Immigration fiasco suspect.

It's more bureaucratic bullshit, piled on top of previous bullshit that was never enforced in the first place.

There's no real leadership from either party on this.

The Republican "leadership" doesn't want to piss off their corporate contributors who want cheap labor, and the Democratic "leadership" wants to avoid alienating the "Hispanic" vote.

But we somehow need to get a better grip on our porous borders. ](*,)
 
So if they were rounded up and sent to prison for five years, then let out and allowed to stay, that would be "amnesty"?
__________________


Of course not, but that's not what the current proposal is all about.

The current proposal is about penalizing them, just not with prison, then letting them stay. It's the same thing, especially since $5000 to these folks isn't chump change the way it is to so-many JUBbers.

Amnesty means no penalties, and there aren't any such proposals going around. Criticism of the $5 grand figure as "too low" often comes with the assertion that it amounts to amnesty, but that just shows an ignorance of economic reality.
 
Hey!
I have the perfect solution to end the illegal immigration.
Let's send all this farmers back to Mexico to produce tons and tons of Premium quality marijuana and Cocaine, since USA is the biggest and most profitable market in the world. We have a win-win situation!!!
Just my 2 cents
Peace!
 
I swear to fucking God, Kulindahr, what the fuck ever. I don't even have the remote interest in commenting any further on your bullshit, worthless post. Whatever you think it says, and if everyone else agrees with you or not, I really don't give a shit. Happy? Jesus fucking Christ. Ridiculous! Goddammit. You still said what you said, period; I remain unconvinced. Move on.

Wow whats the common cord between someone reading the words of another poster, not comprehending the words, taking them out of context and then blaming The person who wrote it.

lol

Someone is spotting. bad
 
Nope just wondering why your stance on every issue is not to provide a point but to argue about how people argue. Kinda childish. I guess I take back what I said you can't have age on your side.
 
Oh so your point is send the illegals home because we can adjust no problem and for a zinger you figured that you would explain your dislike of the one institution that will continue to run when the US and its people do not.

Well ok.

First you can not eliminate 12 million people from a economic base and expect it to recover. The economic prosperity of this nation sucked them in for work. You really believe that will not affect this economy? That it will simply adjust?

However you feel about the vast military industrial complex is irrelevent. Similar to oxygen and gravity, for your foreseeable future it will exist. So like a palestinian you can keep throwin your rocks while the machine marches forward. Jeesh who would be a fan of the empire and not of the vast military industrial complex as they identify the same.
 
oh such a harsh lick, from a fictional character of the hollywood triple feature (the second time around) I guess I could be offended by your attacks if they weren't represented by such a ridiculous character.

So since you have no issue attacking folks based on their lifes work. What is yours? I know I know it is too inconsequential for you to remark on so you will take the high road and claim some sort of privacy matter. Feel free to share so I can understand your stake.
 
Amnesty means no penalties, and there aren't any such proposals going around. Criticism of the $5 grand figure as "too low" often comes with the assertion that it amounts to amnesty, but that just shows an ignorance of economic reality.

Merriam-webster on line defines amnesty as follows:

the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals

As far as all the proposed regs go, do you honestly believe that a government that has been unable or unwilling to enforce existing immigration laws will do any better with all of these new proposals?

Get real.

Bush has been in bed with Mexico since day 2 of his administration. He was way too cozy with Vincente Fox.
 
Indeed it is too inconsequential, and I have no stake beyond being a civilian, with every right to be, against the post-Cold War US foreign policy, costing lives and wasting wealth that would be better used helping people, and yet who ironically is a fan of a "ridiculous character" that brought perpetual war and the shroud of the Dark Side over another galaxy a long, long time ago in a fictional Hollywood hextuple feature. It isn't as if I expect the MIC to be totally dismantled and its parts thrown to the winds, but our excess, in spending and world presence, much like our national hubris, has become our weakness. This gets us to the rather mild "bias and stake"; I'll assume that your training and absorption into military culture has given you a perspective on the status quo that would probably be self-destructive for you to criticize and wish to change---especially if that change is dismantling.

As for the genuine concern bit, it has to do with what you said was most important to you---that you want a raise and intend on moving to another country when all is done. Since the post history look-up goes back only 250 posts I don't recall in which thread you said it and to what country.

Oh I said it and it was Norway and I forget the posted thread. Point being? I will serve this country and when I am finished I will return to azure skies and deep lusty green valleys and snow capped mountains. Now you see here is the thing. All of that is here in the good ole USA but that country when provoked will defend itself not flinch and fight from within.

Meh. Even if they don't, have you ever been to Tromso? No one would disturb such a beautiful place.

That of course is a dream. In the end I will end up living in New England because James and I want kids and there are the best schools in the nation and decent wages. Finally if you can find the right parts of Rhode Island or Connecticut then you find people who mind their business like in the rest of America. Plus i get the idea James is a home boy not a gypsy like me.

ANyways back to your response:

Want a raise? Shit! We all want more money in life. You can only affect two things in my world of leadership. I can affect time and cash. Cash, well I can take it when your fucked up or I can help ya make more when your not so fucked up. Time well i can make it so you are up to your balls in work or off at two each day. Just depends on how work goes for you and how you respond to leadership. You can scoff it but it works in civvie land too.

Finally I will leave you with one thing that must absolutely rub you raw but it is what I believe and what I will do forever more.

"We conduct forward Naval operations both to ensure unimpeded use of the seas and to project American Influence and power into the littoral areas of the world"
- Admiral Jay Johnson, USN, Chief of Naval Operations, Forward....from the Sea, March 1997.

And while that is a quote from a much more modern source I will put upon you the idea that America has always been strong because her seas have been fought for and maintained free for a long fuckin time. The basis was with our founding fathers. But I will allude to them but not cite as you can find those sources readily.

To carry you through time John F Kennedy said famously:

"I can imagine no more rewarding career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy'"

This Kennedy said to a graduating class of Annapolis Midshipmen as they headed to the fleet. He was, incidently, the first of Five US Presidents with USN service.

FInally headed to the begining (for me):

"It is not the taking of individual ships or convoys, be they few or many, that strikes down the money power of a nation; it is the possession of that overbearing power on the sea which drives the enemy's flag from it, or allows it to appear only as a fugitive; and which, by controlling thee great common, closes the highways that commerce moves to and from enemy's shores. This overbearing power can only be exercised by great Navies...when a question arises of control over distant regions,....it must be ultimately decided by naval power, by the organized military force afloat, which represents the communications that form so prominent feature in all strategy."

- Alfred Thayer Mahan, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History 1660-1783, 1890

I can not add to what he said for it sums up my motivation for a strong navy. Without a strong military industrial complex the Navy we have wuld not be possible.

Finally you said Post Cold War as if we had nothing left to do.Try reading up on CHina for six or seven seconds. Realize they are stealing our technology right under our noses, buying russia's tech fair and square and poised in the next 25 years to be the biggest kid on the block.

We can not match them by waking up one day and going 'gee where did all of our shipyards and weapons manufacturers go?'

G'night!
 
Amnesty means no penalties, and there aren't any such proposals going around. Criticism of the $5 grand figure as "too low" often comes with the assertion that it amounts to amnesty, but that just shows an ignorance of economic reality.

Merriam-webster on line defines amnesty as follows:

the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals

As far as all the proposed regs go, do you honestly believe that a government that has been unable or unwilling to enforce existing immigration laws will do any better with all of these new proposals?

Get real.

Bush has been in bed with Mexico since day 2 of his administration. He was way too cozy with Vincente Fox.

I know what "amnesty" means, but it doesn't seem practical to not acknowledge a failed immigration policy while at the same time securing our borders, by knowing who's here. Who's going to "volunteer" to step forward and pay a fine?

We're talking about human nature here, not immigration policy.


That article sums up, what I'm sure you and I are in agreement on, IMO the entire immigration debate is just smoke and mirrors. If anything, what's proposed, will just ad to an ever increasing problem.

Immigration Bill Stalls in Senate, Failure for Bush and Senators
 
If you are in the Dallas area, then you are more than aware of the problem. Two years ago last month, I spent two weeks in East Texas, about 120 miles East of Dallas, to help a family member who had just had a tumor removed from his brain.

His county is so uncivilized that you can't purchase wine in the supermarket - I had to drive ten miles down the Interstate and across a county line. However, you could have a glass of wine with a meal in a restaurant. Thank you Southern Baptists.

Here in Florida we have noted the Mexican invasion for some time now - there are at lest three Mexican grocery stores within 10 miles of where I am sitting. In East Texas, one can observe that we are not only being invaded, we are being invaded and colonized by Mexican peasants, and the government isn't doing squat.

Nobody has the political will to enforce laws that are already on the books.
Stop them at the border. They could round them up and send them home. They could go after the people who are hiring them. There have been a very few well publicized cases of going after the employers, but it's just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

In order to process a new hire, you have to have an I-9 form proving legal status to work. Picture IDs are a part of the process. If an employer does that, he is more or less off the hook.

There is no way that ordinary employers have the ability to determine whether or not the IDs are genuine, and most of them are so desperate for bodies that they don't care. The Govt could provide an easy means of verifying the authenticity of a Social Security Card, but as far as I know, they have never done so.
 
If you are in the Dallas area, then you are more than aware of the problem. Two years ago last month, I spent two weeks in East Texas, about 120 miles East of Dallas, to help a family member who had just had a tumor removed from his brain.

His county is so uncivilized that you can't purchase wine in the supermarket - I had to drive ten miles down the Interstate and across a county line. However, you could have a glass of wine with a meal in a restaurant. Thank you Southern Baptists.

You should have visited back when we had what was called "Blue Laws." All types of stupid stuff that you weren't allowed to buy on a Sunday. :rolleyes:

But yeah, the standing ordinance is that all liquor stores have to have an accessable back door, so that the Southern Baptists can come and go without being seen by anyone else. :lol:

Are you aware of the "3 Religious Truths?"

  1. Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Lord and Personal Savior
  2. Protestants don't recognize the Pope as the Leader of the Christian Faith.
  3. Southern Baptists don't recognize each other in liquor stores, strip clubs, or Hooters!

Liquor Laws here in Texas are not consistent from one community to another, much less in each county. :help:

Here in Florida we have noted the Mexican invasion for some time now - there are at lest three Mexican grocery stores within 10 miles of where I am sitting. In East Texas, one can observe that we are not only being invaded, we are being invaded and colonized by Mexican peasants, and the government isn't doing squat.

You'll get no argument from me. I've picked up quite a bit of "espanol" just so that I can navigate those sitautions.

You go to any construction site of any type, and that's all that you see. They (whover they are) tell us that they're only taking the jobs that we don't want.

When I was driving to Madison, Wisconsin a couple of years ago, these same guys were "anglos" doing the same types of jobs. I told my friend that they must be Canadians. :lol:

Nobody has the political will to enforce laws that are already on the books.
Stop them at the border. They could round them up and send them home. They could go after the people who are hiring them. There have been a very few well publicized cases of going after the employers, but it's just a drop in the proverbial bucket.

In order to process a new hire, you have to have an I-9 form proving legal status to work. Picture IDs are a part of the process. If an employer does that, he is more or less off the hook.

There is no way that ordinary employers have the ability to determine whether or not the IDs are genuine, and most of them are so desperate for bodies that they don't care. The Govt could provide an easy means of verifying the authenticity of a Social Security Card, but as far as I know, they have never done so.

There have been several meat packing plants here in Texas recently, and a few chicken processing plants in Arkansas that have been hit by the Feds, and lots of deportations. Mostly for falsified documents.

From what I know of the proposed "immigration" bill, all that they're doing is making a bad situation worse!

I don't believe that it's practical to not have some type of "amnesty," but at the same time it's not ethical to do so. Many are here illegally, and many more will come if we don't do something about it now.

We need to have secure borders, but our "leadership" our "government" has failed the American people on Immigration. Which is evident by all of the municipalities which have recently passed ordinances prohibiting renters from renting to illegal aliens, and making "English" the official language. Farmers Branch, Texas one of Dallas' larger suburbs recently enacted such measures.

I don't know what the answer is, but from what I've seen proposed, no one in Washington seems to have a rational, logical answer either. :mad:
 
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