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PRISM: NSA/FBI Mining Internet Data since 2007

swerve said:
.... But my central question remains...

How do WE as CITIZENS -- STOP THIS???
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Okay. What do you want to stop?

1. Government collection and analysis of metadata and internet transmissions;
2. Non-government institutions analysis of metadata and internet transmissions;
3. Web server analysis of metadata and internet communications.

Suppose you stop the government, what is to stop them from buying the analysis? A good argument could be made that requires neither a subpoena nor a warrant.

Somewhere along the way you risk becoming a Neo-Luddite, and need to decide how much you wish to dismantle.

On the side of making your concerns known, certainly contact (and keep contacting) your Congresspersons; see if the ACLU represents your views and support it; explore the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF); they have an online petition on their homepage.
 
evanrick said:
Obama doesnt really care about liberties, just about using the NSA to collect data that hypothetically could lead them to stop a terror attack. Every argument made for use of the warrantless wiretapping and intense data monitoring of the American people have used hypothetical scenarios to justify the programs. Why stop at terrorism? Why not include bank fraud as the reason to monitor peoples phone calls, emails and video chat, or is using terrorism simply the most effective way to sell domestic spying? Yes.
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Monitoring the flow of electronic traffic for key indicators of foreign operatives is the exact same thing as radar gunning the flow of traffic for speeders. But I suggest you go ahead and run for office. Since two administrations of both political bent have reviewed this program and every action has been sanctioned by congress in a bi-partisan committee format. So what we need is for you to start another party to change it... you know like Barrack H Obama said he was going to do because it was all the outrage in the Bush Cheney years.... then he saw what it nets and how it protects civil liberties and expanded the program. Just like I said he would when he took office. BUT as soon as you get a new party rolling and then get sixty of you in congress we can readdress... but then you guys might actually learn about the program and find it useful... then what?

My point is that this is not going away.
 
Re: Manning.

Lets not forget that the monitoring of communications of suspected terrorists are valuable in protecting against attacks. The original intent was to monitor communications to sources out of the country. As always, the bureaucrats have perverted it from its intended purpose. I don't know how to limit the use to terrorists, but lets not throw out the baby with the bath water.
 
Re: Manning.

Benvolio said:
Lets not forget that the monitoring of communications of suspected terrorists are valuable in protecting against attacks. The original intent was to monitor communications to sources out of the country. As always, the bureaucrats have perverted it from its intended purpose. I don't know how to limit the use to terrorists, but lets not throw out the baby with the bath water.
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A very good point , though i am like you as i have no idea how you implement such a plan .
 
Re: Manning.

Benvolio said:
Lets not forget that the monitoring of communications of suspected terrorists are valuable in protecting against attacks. The original intent was to monitor communications to sources out of the country. As always, the bureaucrats have perverted it from its intended purpose. I don't know how to limit the use to terrorists, but lets not throw out the baby with the bath water.
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If only the huge investments made in hardware and man hours spent monitoring the Internet and telecommunications provided value.

All of the most recent terrorist attempts on the United States have been confronted by civilians without any association to security agencies or the police service.

The 'underpants' bomber who attempted to hijack an aircraft on Christmas Day 2009 was detected by another passenger whose rapid and successful intervention disarmed the terrorist saving the lives of all on board the plane.

The Times Square bomber was identified by local street vendors noticing the strange behaviour of the perpetrator.

Tamerlan's brother Dzokhar evaded capture despite virtual martial law being declared in Boston and a massive man hunt involving swat teams, helicopters and armoured vehicles. The terrorist was arrested because a suspicious man went out to check the tarpaulin of his boat parked in his backyard which a neighbour had reported being loose where he discovered the terrorist hiding telephoning the police to report the injured man's whereabouts.

So much for hideously expensive snooping by the NSA.
 
I meant is it okay for foreigners to spy on Americans?

Or is America only allowed to play world police?
 
The legal argument is moot. Laws post 9/11 are like ice cream...easily melted. We have whatever rights they say we have, nothing more...and keep in mind those rights are subject to change.
 
Laufey said:
I meant is it okay for foreigners to spy on Americans?

Or is America only allowed to play world police?
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They do. Every day. You are naive if you believe that countries like China and Russia aren't doing the same thing we're doing, except on a grander level.

And where is the evidence showing that these programs are being used to spy on Americans? Last time I checked, Google, Skype, Yahoo, Apple, etc. were accessible by people in other countries as well. The only thing I've seen in the articles that actually present facts are that the companies provided a way for the government to access the data. There has been no evidence provided on what data has been accessed.

To me, this is a bunch of paranoid hype over nothing. There are strict laws governing how the NSA runs (I suggest people reading up on the FISA and FAAs to understand how things work) and the people who work there (who are Americans) are more focused on protecting the country than on spying on other Americans. This guy is a weasel who swore to protect secrets and then divulged them to fulfill a personal agenda he had. The only law broken here was the one he broke by divulging information he wasn't supposed to and I hope they catch him and make an example of him.
 
Tiger Fan this will be much ado about nothing that will end up being the media proving to the administration they can flex muscle... the leak investigations will continue and they should.

Nope in the end, nothing is going to change.
 
Laufey said:
I meant is it okay for foreigners to spy on Americans?

Or is America only allowed to play world police?
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:cry:

you sound awful butt hurt about something.

Yes, sweet pea, yes, countries spy on one another. Welcome to earth.
 
The circumvention of national laws by the use of 'third parties' deserves investigation.

We should remember, however, how in the late 1960s GCHQ cooperated in the illegal eavesdropping on the communications of such civil rights activists as the actress Jane Fonda, the singer Joan Baez, and the US paediatrician and best-selling author, Benjamin Spock.

With the help of a US-funded GCHQ listening station at Bude on North Cornwall, the two agencies did each other's dirty work, getting round their domestic laws by spying on each other's citizens.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/defence-and-security-blog/2013/jun/11/gchq-nsa-intelligence
 
The FBI has markedly increased its use of the Patriot Act.

The FBI has dramatically increased its use of a controversial provision of the Patriot Act to secretly obtain a vast store of business records of U.S. citizens under President Barack Obama, according to recent Justice Department reports to Congress. The bureau filed 212 requests for such data to a national security court last year – a 1,000-percent increase from the number of such requests four years earlier, the reports show.
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http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...provision-to-collect-us-citizens-records?lite

The ACLU and New York Civil Liberties Union have sued the Administration over the phone data mining.

Article and complete copy of complaint are at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/aclu-obama_n_3423378.html
 
Laufey said:
I didn't ask if it was the reality I asked if it was okay.
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Of course it is... international law is brokered by treaty sometimes but mostly by practice, since all countries practice some sort of spying - ergo the practice is acceptable. And the way you ask wasn't to invite a question answered and you know it.

Why is it the two broke ass countries whose leaders outright lied and deceived on a international level have citizens on this forum that are the ones so hard up and poking Americans?
 
JayHawk said:
Why is it the two broke ass countries whose leaders outright lied and deceived on a international level have citizens on this forum that are the ones so hard up and poking Americans?
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Ooh, an indirect ad hominem!

Or something like that. Are you seriously suggesting that people in countries with messed up leaders cease to have cognitive capabilities?
 
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