On-Topic Putting blame EVERYWHERE it belongs.

[Kulindahr]

Everyone was warned BEFORE the election about the empowerment of white nationalists and the alt right and the Nazis...and the alt left chose to ignore it. Everything fell on deaf ears.

I do not see any bridges being built. The alt left is intending to get rid of the Democrats in Office in 2018...how exactly can there be any unity?

How can there be any unity when your proposal is to compromise with corruption (thus encouraging it)?

 

[Sausy]

How can there be any unity when your proposal is to compromise with corruption (thus encouraging it)?

He doesn't see them as genuine Democrats but heretics and closet Trump/fascist lovers/enablers. When one side can NEVER compromise but the other side will never publicly bash the corruption and rot emanating from the DNC, the Democrats are doomed and unless something fills up the vacuum so are we as a nation. People of good will can disagree, but when people are tearing apart those who don't share their perspective(on either side, left or establishment- propping) Republicans would gladly encourage that division. The problem is what the GOP has become, and to a lesser extent(but a very critical one regarding its moral credibility) what the Dems have allowed to happen to themselves.

FDR was far from perfect, but I've grown from more of a centrist in my younger days(and a lot of my first few years posting here politically on JUB) to a New Deal Democrat... the best kind of Democrat... a Hubert Humphrey Democrat... We love America but most importantly we love what America can be at its best. I'm no troll, I'm home... and I won't let it's corrupt corporate management fuck it up for the rest of us!

 

[Kulindahr]

But you know, you may opt to look what happened with a rainbow-colored glasses. Hillary Clinton can never fail. She was simply failed by the voters.

Hillary and the DNC said "Fuck you" to the voters before the election. All the local people were told to shut up and do what they were told by the central committee and forget doing the things those local people knew would work.

After that, it's amazing that ANY Bernie supporters voted for her -- but they were amazingly loyal.

 

[Kulindahr]

Your movement's new goals of taking down Democrats in 2018 renders everything you say bullshit,.

Really? From the outside it looks like they mean to do what Trump only spouted about: clean the swamp. If you're going to clean, you start with your own party.

 

[zoltanspawn]

There are Nazis marching in our streets because Hillary ...

Yeah hah.

 

[eastofeden]

How can there be any unity when your proposal is to compromise with corruption (thus encouraging it)?

There won't be unity...never again. There will need to be a third party which will work on state levels but on a national level..might as well get used to Republicans forever. I am not forgiving them for Trump..nor am I forgiving them for their plans to take out as many Democrats as they can in 2018...sorry....

The Hillary is the Devil thing didn't work for me and millions of other people...it alienated us. Yelling at us is not gonna work.

...and you don't define corruption for me...I do. My compromise is NOT "with corruption"...period. You don't have a clue who I am.

 

[ballcaphair]

How can there be any unity when your proposal is to compromise with corruption (thus encouraging it)?

There's a lot of discussion on this post, but it confuses me. If it's not sophisticated name-calling, I'm lost.

 

[CoolBlue71]

OK...just one more thing....

It was the Bernie Bros and Cool Blue and Mystic and the other guy who insisted on defining ME as a person....telling me I am not Liberal or Far Left....as if I don't know who I am politically...and you were picking a fight...and you got one...

...and eventually I responded in kind. If you want to define other people politically...then expect it to come back to you. You people opened a Pandora's Box.....that is on you.

Addressing the topic:

The term Bernie Bros was coined by...Bernie Bros....

As for alt left...I never heard it before I said it. That isn't propaganda. It is an opinion based on an observation. Period.

On July 23, 2017, and on the thread “Hillary Clinton and her presidential-loss, blame game of excluding herself,” you wrote and posted the following:

You are agreeing with a Trump guy...someone who hated Hillary so bad he posed as a Bernie Bro so he could bash her.

The Trump trolls played a lot of you like a fiddle......

You still haven't learned to stop blaming Hillary or all the other "estabishment Democrats".....and your movement will get no where if you don't take a little time to understand what negotiation and compromise means. The all or nothing approach will not win you enough allies....and instead of getting any part of your agenda...you will get none of it....

When I did my thing for Kucinich in 2008...I was horrified when I noticed right wing trolls were "agreeing" with me and using my points to undermine the conversation. You guys all in all are too naïve and blind to understand that this happened to you on a MUCH WIDER SCALE. Kucinich was never a threat to anyone...but it bugged me to have the right wing trolls on my side....you guys by and large seemed to embrace their talking points.

I watched you guys happily repeating and parroting ANY anti Hillary stuff...going back to 1992....not even caring that you were helping the GOP. People like me should be an EASY ally to acquire...but I cannot respect the movement that did this. I am damn sure not jumping in bed with the people you guys have allowed in the bed....and yet you can't even recognize them. Stamping your feet and saying it isn't so isn't gonna work. I know it is a fact.

If you cant distinguish between people who are likely to be allies and people who are not...how do you expect to move forward with your "movement"? You will not "take back" anything.

The Democrat Party is center left at best...but I am far left.... and you haven't convinced me.

You have to convince a lot of people.....you aren't doing a good job.

I responded with the following:

It is the Democratic, not “Democrat,” Party.

No—you are not “far left.”

I did not “define” you as a “person.”

I reached one conclusion, from your writings and postings, and mentioned it.

 

[eastofeden]

On July 23, 2017, and on the thread “Hillary Clinton and her presidential-loss, blame game of excluding herself,” you wrote and posted the following:





I responded with the following:



I did not “define” you as a “person.”

I reached one conclusion, from your writings and postings, and mentioned it.

You reached the wrong conclusion.

How many people who aren't far left do you think supported Dennis Kucinich?

I just happen to like compromise and I will plug my nose for the greater good everytime....not all people on the far left are blind to the big picture and the big picture has the Supreme Court as the cherry on top of a big ass cake.....

I will not ignore that....BECAUSE I am far left.

I damn sure wouldn't have cheered on the Russian hackers..even if they hacked Republicans..BECAUSE I am far left.

I should correct one thing...you didn't define me...you can't....you just attempted to and failed. You don't have the skill to do it....and even if you did....I wouldn't let you.

 

[CoolBlue71]

You reached the wrong conclusion.

How many people who aren't far left do you think supported Dennis Kucinich?

I just happen to like compromise and I will plug my nose for the greater good everytime....not all people on the far left are blind to the big picture and the big picture has the Supreme Court as the cherry on top of a big ass cake.....

I will not ignore that....BECAUSE I am far left.

I damn sure wouldn't have cheered on the Russian hackers..even if they hacked Republicans..BECAUSE I am far left.

I should correct one thing...you didn't define me...you can't....you just attempted to and failed. You don't have the skill to do it....and even if you did....I wouldn't let you.

I am not focused or interested in defining you.

And, even though you say voted the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination to Dennis Kucinich, enough of what you have written and posted here shows, for one thing, that you are not “far left.”

 

[eastofeden]

I am not focused or interested in defining you.

And, even though you say voted the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination to Dennis Kucinich, enough of what you have written and posted here shows, for one thing, that you are not “far left.”

You are wrong.

I do see why you would come to that conclusion if you consider yourself "far left"....because we are not alike.

You have no idea what my problems are with Mrs Clinton or other Democrats because I haven't stated them here publicly...ON PURPOSE. I will not grab a torch and help burn down the village.

I would never throw out the baby with the bathwater and that is your stated goal. We are polar opposites in the way we approach things...but if you think far left is only people like you..you are so mistaken.

 

[CoolBlue71]

You are wrong.

I do see why you would come to that conclusion if you consider yourself "far left"....because we are not alike.

This is good!

You have no idea what [my problems are with Mrs Clinton or other Democrats] because I haven't stated them here publicly...ON PURPOSE.

So, according to what you wrote and posted, you intend to not specifically express your “problems” with “Hillary Clinton or other Democrats”—and that, for you, this is “ON PURPOSE”—in what is an area of Just Us Boys which discusses politics.

 

[cocksucker4use]

Hillary is over. Not worth writing about. Done. Both the RNC and the DNC fucked themselves and they are not going to crawl out of it any time soon, if ever. The RNC couldn't pull it together to dump Trump. Now they have a Republican dominated Congress and a sitting POTUS who can't get anything done. The Trump Administration is a revolving door, and the smart money is that the Donald is going to bail as the Russian investigation and its multiple grand juries come to a head. The DNC was powerless to pull it together and bring the Bernie supporters on board to establish party unity. Neither party has any viable leadership. Finally, what people care about is driving the discourse rather than dogma and planks. People are actually getting off their asses and into the streets. They are starting to CARE. Working class Whites saw Trump as their Moses. Ignoring all the obvious flaws to get "their guy" in a place to save an economy that wasn't broken, protect our borders from whomever, push conservative social values....drain the swamp and take action for their benefit. He has done nothing, and probably won't because he can't stay on topic for more than an hour or so at a time. They look at Don as a sports figure...they are fans, regardless. DNC is done, RNC is done, Don is done...really. He's fucked himself, and what he hasn't shoved up his ass, the idiots around him have filled the gap to really screw him. So, where from here? We will have some time with Pence (or maybe not, but he appears to have wiped his feet whenever he left the oval office and didn't leave any finger prints). He will be able to work with Congress and push a far right agenda that will gut any safety nets for about half the population before he's done. Business will love it. But voters will be really ready for the next big THING....

 

[eastofeden]

So, according to what you wrote and posted, you intend to not specifically express your “problems” with “Hillary Clinton or other Democrats”—and that, for you, this is “ON PURPOSE”—in what is an area of Just Us Boys which discusses politics.

Yes..that is correct...and I have explained why in detail more than once in the past. I am not going to repeat it. The bottom line synopsis..I HATED it when in 2008 on another website my own critiques of Obama were being used by both Hillary people and the Republicans...and they were my OWN unique observations.....

I remember the lessons I learn. My intention was not to smear him..it was to discuss his way too conservative past.

I also had alot of public criticism of Clinton in 2008 as well....but I am not gonna feed the sharks now....

Same thing happened in 2000 with Gore and 2004 with Kerry except the troll army and paid shills were not as prevalent then so I wasn't alarmed.

This is good!

I completely agree...it IS good. If I find myself listening to Jimmy Dore..a Body Snatcher took my place..

 

[ballcaphair]

How can there be any unity when your proposal is to compromise with corruption (thus encouraging it)?

There's a lot of discussion on this post, but it confuses me. If it's not sophisticated name-calling, I'm lost.

Kulindahr, I apologize for my comment. I was wrong and now I get it.

 

[TickTockMan]

Want to bitch about Trump? Start will Hillary and the DNC. Keep in mind the Clintons wanted Trump to run as well. They have been friends for years. Their daughter's have even admitted they are still friend, they just keep it quite now.

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately “elevated” Donald Trump with its “pied piper” strategy

Republican Donald Trump, a far-right demagogue who campaigned on a slew of bigoted, xenophobic policies, has won the 2016 presidential election in a shocking victory few people predicted.

What was not often acknowledged in Trump’s heated race against Democrat Hillary Clinton, however, was how her campaign fueled his rise to power.

[Quoted Text: Truncated] Copyright © 2017 Salon Media Group, Inc.

[Quoted Text: Truncated] Copyright © 2017 Salon Media Group, Inc.

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...ed-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/

 

[TickTockMan]

Everyone was warned BEFORE the election about the empowerment of white nationalists and the alt right and the Nazis...and the alt left chose to ignore it. Everything fell on deaf ears.

I do not see any bridges being built. The alt left is intending to get rid of the Democrats in Office in 2018...how exactly can there be any unity?

Bridges not being built is completely on the DNC. They had many chances. They preferred to go after republicans instead.

Senator Chuck Schumer said it best

“For every blue-collar Democrat we will lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two, three moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”

 

[Sausy]

What the fuck is the leadership thinking? Do they even really want to win back at least one of the Houses of Congress? And if they do, will it matter if on many issues they talk one way but act like Republican lite? This is not intended as a smear against Republicans... there have been many who have served honorably and worked in a number of areas reaching across the aisle to Democrats. But those Republicans are far and few between today, with rare exceptions. But what kind of Democratic Party message and agenda would be the focus... one that benefits the poor, working and middle classes or will Wall Street and corporate boards be the ones invited to the head table? Playing on the margins isn't enough. There will be a small number on the left who would never be placated...and I don't want a purity purge of people not sufficiently liberal for some. But there has to be a real effort by leadership to not screw around here and to adopt a core of principles we all will fight for and not dismiss or demean the reform left. Remember, FDR focused on an Economic Bill of Rights in 1944... this was a man of wealth who threw his lot in with the regular person and as flawed as he was in some areas, here his kind of progressive identification was (and is) a badge of honor.

 

[CoolBlue71]

[/B]

Yes..that is correct...and I have explained why in detail more than once in the past. I am not going to repeat it. The bottom line synopsis..I HATED it when in 2008 on another website my own critiques of Obama were being used by both Hillary people and the Republicans...and they were my OWN unique observations.....

^ Pointless.

For all that effort of being unwilling to “repeat”…you quickly could have written at least some of your criticisms (and whether you ever had any regarding a 2016 Hillary Clinton).

If I find myself listening to Jimmy Dore..a Body Snatcher took my place..

This alone demonstrates that you are not “far left.” (And, given your other writings and postings, no one who is truly “far left” rants against Bernie Sanders and his primaires voters and supporters as you have.)

 

[CoolBlue71]

Hillary is over. Not worth writing about.

…for the possibility of ever being president of the United States? Yes.

Problem is that Hillary Clinton—and Bill Clinton and Barack Obama (plus DLC and Third Way)—still have influence on the Democratic Party.