Queers against Israeli Apartheid

[Glafna]

what about the message that Israel should be destroyed at all costs?

is that acceptable? Should Israel tollerate people conspiring to destroy them rather than TALK to them? How do you give free speech to an enemy that is sworn to kill you?

Its hard to defend a group of people who are working to eradicate a race.

Its all foolishness. I am hard on Israel for more than one reasons in my worldview, but Palestininans that want Hammas to represent them politically have nerve expecting Israel to allow that kind of speech.

it is just not common sense.

Except, you know, This group ISNT talking about eradicating Israel. Their talking about making them accountable for ALL of their actions.
Which people, including the Jewish Defense League, who are on the FBI watchlist as a terrorist organization, seem not to like. I don't care if they have a great history of gay rights. If they deny someone else rights, or abuse another group of people, then they are in the wrong.

 

[NineOfClubs]

A bunch of hating, low life, anti-semites, if you ask me.

On the same level as the KKK.

 

[BostonPirate]

Except, you know, This group ISNT talking about eradicating Israel. Their talking about making them accountable for ALL of their actions.
Which people, including the Jewish Defense League, who are on the FBI watchlist as a terrorist organization, seem not to like. I don't care if they have a great history of gay rights. If they deny someone else rights, or abuse another group of people, then they are in the wrong.

so as a gay man, you arewilling to look the other way as they hang gays for sucking cock, yet when Hammas says it believes the state of Israel has no right to exist, that it is just pretending?

as if all those rockets and suicide bombs weren't evidence enough?

Hammas and Fatah made an alliance today, brokered by the ruling council of Egypt, and it pretty much kills the peace process for netanyahu.

That CANT be a surprise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/world/middleeast/28mideast.html?_r=1

The two main Palestinian factions, Fatah and Hamas, announced Wednesday that they were putting aside years of bitter rivalry to create an interim unity government and hold elections within a year, a surprise move that promised to reshape the diplomatic landscape of the Middle East.

the predictable response?

Israel, feeling increasingly surrounded by unfriendly forces, denounced the unity deal as dooming future peace talks since Hamas seeks its destruction. “The Palestinian Authority has to choose between peace with Israel and peace with Hamas,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declared in a televised statement. The Obama administration warned that Hamas was a terrorist organization unfit for peacemaking.

The deal brings with it the risk of alienating the Western support that the Palestinian Authority has enjoyed. Azzam al-Ahmad, the Fatah negotiator, said that Salam Fayyad, the prime minister in the West Bank who is despised by Hamas, would not be part of the interim government. It is partly because of Mr. Fayyad, and the trust he inspires in Washington, that hundreds of millions of dollars are provided annually to the Palestinian Authority by Congress. Without that aid, the Palestinian Authority would face great difficulties.

Tell me again why queers need to support a =n organisation like Hammas that has this policy in regards to gays?

Hamas say gays are perverts will be punished if they win elections

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-116.html

Dr Mahmoud Zahar (pictured), the groups leader in Gaza, in an article on an Arabic website condemned the rights that gays have in Israel and made it clear that he thinks that gays are perverts. “Are these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick?” He asked on the Elaph website.

and what does hamas do to gays?

homosexuality is officially illegal in the Palestinian Authority and can result in long prison sentences or a death sentence if authorised by the President.

Israel remains the only country in the Middle East to declare homosexuality as legal and is reportedly moving towards a civil partnership scheme that will benefit gay couples.

so why would queers take up for a people that just today put the ones in charge that execute and jail gays????

what in the world are you guys thinking?

 

[bankside]

Again, where'd you get the idea that this group is a supporter of Hamas?

 

[FoxMulder]

Again, where'd you get the idea that this group is a supporter of Hamas?

I'd like to know this as well.

 

[Glafna]

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

We are NOT talking about Hamas, we are talking about the Queers against Israeli Apartheid.

NOT THE SAME FUCKING GROUP.

And NO I'm not fine with them hanging gays in the Middle East. What I mean is. EVERYONE gets equal rights. that's the point of fucking equality.

 

[Glafna]

A bunch of hating, low life, anti-semites, if you ask me.

On the same level as the KKK.

Oh so even though Jewish members are in the group their Anti-Semites?

Can you give an actual informed opinion, [Text: Removed by Moderator]

 

[BostonPirate]

Again, where'd you get the idea that this group is a supporter of Hamas?

who are the people that you guys think are being "victimized" ?

The people that continuously put Hamas in power in Palestine, thats how.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY NAIVE?

cmon, dude. this is ludicrous. We as gays need to save a people that voted leadership into office freely, that puts gays to death.

Queers against Israael Aparthied?

WTF?????

What about "Queers in support of people that kill queers" ?

Sounds like a better title to me.

 

[BostonPirate]

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

We are NOT talking about Hamas, we are talking about the Queers against Israeli Apartheid.

NOT THE SAME FUCKING GROUP.

And NO I'm not fine with them hanging gays in the Middle East. What I mean is. EVERYONE gets equal rights. that's the point of fucking equality.

no [Text: Removed by Moderator] not the same group.

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

Why the FUCK are those lives more valuable than the lives of the Israelis they take? why? Years of rocket launchers and suicide bombings have made Pallestine international pariahs.

They CHOOSE their leaders on purpose, and if any of you went there to help them, you would be jailed.

[Text: Removed by Moderator]

 

[Glafna]

We. Are. Not. Talking. About. Hamas.

And I'm done playing with you.

The questions I placed at the end of the OP are the topic of the thread.

Why is there such a push by Jewish Rights Organizations and members of the gay community, against saying anything negative against Israel.

A damn simple thing to ask.

 

[shore89]

We. Are. Not. Talking. About. Hamas.

And I'm done playing with you.

The questions I placed at the end of the OP are the topic of the thread.

Why is there such a push by Jewish Rights Organizations and members of the gay community, against saying anything negative against Israel.

A damn simple thing to ask.

Stop playing the victim card when you are the one that is making up a lie about another country. And your "simple question" is not a simple question because it is based on fallacy.

The reason gays and "Jewish Rights Organizations" are against groups like these are because there is no apartheid in Israel. There isn't. Making a fake 'human rights' group saying that there is apartheid doesn't change the fact that there isn't.

There are problems in Israel, nobody is denying that, but it is very interesting and curious that there are no "Queers Against Rape in the Congo" groups or "Queers against genocide in Darfur" groups at these parades. They tend to single out one country with something that isn't even true.

And to think that this doesn't help Hamas is ignorant. By slandering their sworn enemy, you are helping them out by giving them support, unless maybe thats your goal.

 

[Glafna]

Stop playing the victim card when you are the one that is making up a lie about another country. And your "simple question" is not a simple question because it is based on fallacy.

The reason gays and "Jewish Rights Organizations" are against groups like these are because there is no apartheid in Israel. There isn't. Making a fake 'human rights' group saying that there is apartheid doesn't change the fact that there isn't.

There are problems in Israel, nobody is denying that, but it is very interesting and curious that there are no "Queers Against Rape in the Congo" groups or "Queers against genocide in Darfur" groups at these parades. They tend to single out one country with something that isn't even true.

And to think that this doesn't help Hamas is ignorant. By slandering their sworn enemy, you are helping them out by giving them support, unless maybe thats your goal.

I am not saying anything. I am only passing along what has been said by this group, and other people. And pretty sure Desmond Tutu knows what Apartheid is. JS.

And actually, it is. If it was based completely on fallacy, you'd be able to provide sources that actually discredit this. All I have seen from the ones completely nay saying this, is a story on Hamas. Who we are NOT talking about. As of yet, everyone who has came in here arguing against it, have not provided ANY intellectual thoughts on it, just 'Hamas this, hamas that, anti-israel, anti-jewish' etc.

There are no groups like that, because all the gays have joined the generic groups for those things. Red Cross and the like. And I'm sure there are grassroots groups that do have names like that, just they aren't as mainstream.

And by saying this helps them, by extension, your saying by protesting abuses of detainees in the Middle East by US troops, and the imperialist ideas they've had for the past few decades, it's helping the terrorists win.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

Glafna, as long as Israel remains the only gay-friendly nation in the Arab world, and the only functioning democracy in their region, and a haven for hundreds of thousands gay refugees from muslim countries, I have no problem with their policy of stopping and searching people who might conceal weapons or bombs, and I don't mind their defending their nation against rockets and missiles fired from kindergartens and hospitals in Gaza and elsewhere.

Would you call Canada a fascist state if it tried to defend itself from Detroit-based suicide terrorists? I guess we'll find out soon.

 

[Zeno Lorea]

who are the people that you guys think are being "victimized" ?

The people that continuously put Hamas in power in Palestine, thats how.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY NAIVE?

cmon, dude. this is ludicrous. We as gays need to save a people that voted leadership into office freely, that puts gays to death.

Queers against Israael Aparthied?

WTF?????

What about "Queers in support of people that kill queers" ?

Sounds like a better title to me.

Yes Pirate, some people are completely naive, and they are the ones who say Israel has no right to defend itself.

 

[bankside]

Of course lots of people say Israel has no right to occupy and colonize territory that isn't theirs (west bank, east jerusalem) but it has every right to defend its legal borders.

That distinction shouldn't be hard to understand. In fact the only way to miss it is to ignore it on purpose.

 

[Kulindahr]

Two things:

1. "Apartheid" may not be an entirely accurate term here, but it's close enough for government work.

2. If the fact that pointing out someone's failings gives fuel to their enemies is sufficient reason to demand silence, one may as well throw out the concept of "right" and "wrong".

 

[iwantbig]

maybe i'm on another planet and didn't realise it , what i've seen of life in the palestinian camps reminds of something i saw on docos about the warsaw ghettos in ww2, but its okay because a " god " told them its theirs

 

[Kulindahr]

maybe i'm on another planet and didn't realise it , what i've seen of life in the palestinian camps reminds of something i saw on docos about the warsaw ghettos in ww2, but its okay because a " god " told them its theirs

Maybe He did. But He also told them how to treat the strangers and sojourners in their land.

Now, if they claim the land, they ought to be following those strictures -- like, starting with booting people out of their homes.....

 

[Glafna]

Glafna, as long as Israel remains the only gay-friendly nation in the Arab world, and the only functioning democracy in their region, and a haven for hundreds of thousands gay refugees from muslim countries, I have no problem with their policy of stopping and searching people who might conceal weapons or bombs, and I don't mind their defending their nation against rockets and missiles fired from kindergartens and hospitals in Gaza and elsewhere.

Would you call Canada a fascist state if it tried to defend itself from Detroit-based suicide terrorists? I guess we'll find out soon.

I am not supportive of any terrorist groups, nor shall I ever be unless special circumstance requires me to do otherwise.

Yes, they have great gay rights, better then the states, and yes they are the one bastion of true rights in the Middle East.

Doesn't mean we can't look into their less then reputable actions, such as abuses by the military, such as what the Coalition troops did and are probably still doing in Iraq and Afghanistan, which worsened the situation.

What you just said, is exactly what the group is talking about. They use their gay-rights record, or so it is claimed, so that people don't pay attention to their abuses of the Palestinians and non-jews of the countries population. Or so it's been said.

And im NOT saying they dont have the right to defend themselves. Don't pull a Fox and put words in my mouth. I am saying that they, like those in the west, need to be responsible and own up to their actions.

Also calling them fascist seems to be a bit off, as it was the fascists who killed 6 million people in death camps in ww2

 

[Glafna]

Two things:

1. "Apartheid" may not be an entirely accurate term here, but it's close enough for government work.

2. If the fact that pointing out someone's failings gives fuel to their enemies is sufficient reason to demand silence, one may as well throw out the concept of "right" and "wrong".

I honestly think it may be a bit much as well, but are there any other words to use that really work for the situation?

Exactly my point. People blindly follow governments far too much, either through some perverted sense of devotion to their homeland, or through the guilt, which I DO believe people still feel, over the things not done to help the Jewish people in WW2.