So, what do you guys think about the possible mosque by ground zero

[unclaimedblessing]

The point I was trying to make is that the mosque near Ground Zero and the Confederate flag are symbols which are revered by many and despised by many others.

We have enough internal/divisive issues already without adding fodder to the fire.

 

[MercuryJones]

The point I was trying to make is that the mosque near Ground Zero and the Confederate flag are symbols which are revered by many and despised by many others.

We have enough internal/divisive issues already without adding fodder to the fire.

Firstly, as you should now know, it's not even a mosque.

Secondly, your comparison is invalid. Equating all of Islam with terrorists is like equating all Whites or all Christians with the KKK.

If you think there's too much divisiveness why don't you stop fueling it with your falsehoods?

 

[MercuryJones]

I'm not much for the Dems myself. They're simply the less toxic of the viable choices.

But I'm also anti authoritarian, so if there's a revolution we might not find ourselves in the same faction.

 

[Jack Springer]

Bullshit, Johann.

People are focused on the Constitutional right to freedom of religion.

It's not even a mosque, and it's disingenuous of you to describe it as such.

Dude - they have been praying there since May of 2009 -- without an occupational permit. I even heard Mayor Bloomberg say that yesterday.

This whole discussion is not about the freedom of religion -- it is about the insensitively of the people who want to build this center/Mosque next to "ground zero". Heck, I've heard from what I understand as accurate sources that the landing gear from one of the planes actually hit this building.

The people who support the building of the mosque have tried to skew it to be about freedom of religion. It is not. There are mosques all over the US.

The wounds of 9/11 are still very raw and I would assume will be for decades.

 

[MercuryJones]

This whole discussion is not about the freedom of religion -- it is about the insensitively of the people who want to build this center/Mosque next to "ground zero". Heck, I've heard from what I understand as accurate sources that the landing gear from one of the planes actually hit this building.

To the contrary: It is precisely about freedom of religion. If the center were being built by members of virtually any other religion it would be a non-issue. There is sheer religious bigotry behind the opposition.

The people who support the building of the mosque have tried to skew it to be about freedom of religion. It is not. There are mosques all over the US.

There is NO reason to oppose the building other than religious bigotry.

 

[Jack Springer]

To the contrary: It is precisely about freedom of religion. If the center were being built by members of virtually any other religion it would be a non-issue. There is sheer religious bigotry behind the opposition.

There is NO reason to oppose the building other than religious bigotry.

The people that destroyed the buildings in NYC were Muslim and proudly stated that they were -- they killed the people for Allah.

You're missing the point and trying to make it about freedom of religion in the USA. From your reasoning NAZI's should be able to build near or on concentration camps in Germany and Poland. The Japanese are not welcome to build a center near Pearl Harbor. Maybe some day -- but not today.

 

[MercuryJones]

The people that destroyed the buildings in NYC were Muslim and proudly stated that they were -- they killed the people for Allah.

Those weren't the people building the community center.

You're missing the point and trying to make it about freedom of religion in the USA. From your reasoning NAZI's should be able to build near or on concentration camps in Germany and Poland. The Japanese are not welcome to build a center near Pearl Harbor. Maybe some day -- but not today.

You're confused. Naziism is not a religion and neither is being Japanese.

Naziism is the analogy to Al Queda, not Islam. Christianity - the religion of the Nazis - is abundant in Germany, even near sites of concentration camp. So your fallacious analogy is meaningless.

And where the fuck do you get the idea that the Japanese are not welcome to build a center near Pearl Harbor?

The simple fact is you and some others want to prevent people from exercising freedom of religion. I'm glad to not have to live in such bitter, confused and dishonest heads.

 

[Críostóir]

The wounds of 9/11 are still very raw and I would assume will be for decades.

Yeah, they are, and one of the worst of them was watching my countrymen sink right back into the mindset that led to the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII.

I don't know where you live, but I live close enough to NYC that I could smell Ground Zero for weeks after 9/11. I lost friends (albeit new ones) in that attack. I'd've died in it myself if I'd gone to work early that day.

Maybe I feel differently about it because I knew Muslims before 9/11, and I saw the horror they felt at Al Qaeda using the name of their religion. Do you shun Christians because of Eric Rudolph? I'd wager not, and yet he committed murders in the name of Christianity. The difference is that you know he's not typical of Christians.

I know Al Qaeda aren't typical of Muslims. Anyone who knows actual breathing Muslims knows that.

Two blocks is a fair distance in New York. It's not in the same neighborhood. And it's not a mosque. At this point we've said that enough that going on calling it a mosque (without refuting our assertion that it isn't one) is just trolling.

 

[Críostóir]

Man Already Knows All He Needs To Know About Muslims

 

[laikaNYC]

Ground Zero Mosque supporter verbally assaults Holocaust survivor. More classy behavior from the left.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUoJEyGCZnY&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

[MoltenRock III]

The people that destroyed the buildings in NYC were Muslim and proudly stated that they were -- they killed the people for Allah.

You're missing the point and trying to make it about freedom of religion in the USA. From your reasoning NAZI's should be able to build near or on concentration camps in Germany and Poland. The Japanese are not welcome to build a center near Pearl Harbor. Maybe some day -- but not today.

I'm only addressing this so that "normal" people can hear the debate on this issue, as I don't respond to trolls.

The Nazis were a political party, not a religion. Religion in the USA is protected tooth and nail, where as political parties are not. So this canard your hero Newt Gingrinch spewed is so far off the mark it's laughable.

Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bomber) was proud about his Christian roots, as was Eric Rudolph (the Atlanta Olympics games bomber, and killer of many by bombing abortion clinics), as was James von Brunn (the Holocaust Museum shooter in Washington DC). Does the act of 5, or 10, or 20, or even 100 individuals damn over 1.3 BILLION believers? No.

Stop spreading hate and fear.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Jack, I don't think they are capable of understanding the point.

Yeah, I'm incapable of understanding complete lies, logical fallacies, and empty rhetoric. What's sad, is you seem to be able to suck at the teat of hate and intolerance. You talked about karma above. If you got gay bashed within an inch of your life, your stance here would be like me saying after your bashing, "Ha ha, you deserved it."

Disgusting sentiment "Johann". Disgusting!

 

[BostonPirate]

Dude - they have been praying there since May of 2009 -- without an occupational permit

CLUTCH PEARLS!!!

Praying without a permit???!!!!!!!

in AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

those dirty muther fuckers

 

[bankside]

Ground Zero Mosque supporter verbally assaults Holocaust survivor. More classy behavior from the left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUoJEyGCZnY&feature=player_embedded

That was an undignified exchange all around. Do you know what the highlight of that was? Where the camera guy says snidely "Boy what a tolerant man he is!"

Totally fucking clueless. The onus is on him to show how banning religious freedom is compatible with being tolerant. I am the first person to insist on removing religious drivel from public life. But I have to stand up for it on private property.

At this point, I would like to see a committee raise funds to lease a space in the newly built "freedom tower" itself, to be used exclusively as a mosque, just to make the point.

 

[BostonPirate]

if there are christian churches within the area, the american constitution clearly prevails and the islamic center cannot be blocked.

It may piss alot of people off, but if observing the constitution bugs you then you need to examine what your beliefs are and see whether or not america is the place for you.

I am getting a but full of this unconstitutional behavior wrapping itself up in the trappings of americana to hide itself from view for what it is.

Prejudice is prejudice. The gov't cannot tell people where they can and cannot pray or have religious establishments.

That is just the way this country works. If this is a problem I may suggest those with the problem move to a country that has a more strict attitude towards religion. Theres the vatican city.... Saudi Arabia.... wherever your cup o' tea resides

But quite frankly? I am so over the mosque bullshit. there is so much more that we as americans need to be worried about that restricting freedom of religion.

like... oh i dont know... THE FUCKING RECESSION FOR EXAMPLE?

Jesus H Tap Dancing Christ on a pogo stick!

Either make the entire area religion free or get the hell out of the way and shut up, but waving a flag and pretending to be patriotic as you try to take your neighbors rights away from them is just about one of the most disgusting ways I can think of, to corrupt all that america stands for.

The people who are protesting the Not a Mosque are EXACTLY the ones that the terrorists have beaten.

How does it feel to get fucked by old Osama into giving up your values as an american and a human being?

shame on all of you that don't realize it

 

[rareboy]

I believe Freedom of Speech is badly overrated, and as I said, if we were sensible, we'd be like the Canadians who banned that cunt Ann Coulter. Oftentimes, Freedom of Speech protects the bad guys, not the good ones.

We didn't ban the cunt. She self-deleted from her speaking engagement.

You all know what though?

If this were in Canada, I'll bet we'd let them build the centre without nearly the hate and hysteria that the cynical and manipulative press and political candidates have whipped up.

Honestly, I'm ashamed to see this kind of divisive and hurtful discussion taking place in New York and across the US these days.

As I said before. The Terrorists have won by making Americans as intolerant as the societies they come from.

 

[Jack Springer]

CLUTCH PEARLS!!!

Praying without a permit???!!!!!!!

in AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


those dirty muther fuckers

You need an occupational permit to occupy a building.

Islam is more than just a religion. It is a form of government --- Islam has their own law -- Sharia.

Please get beyond the thinking that this is about freedom of religion. I have heard no one say that they don't have the right to worship.

It is about their poor choice in selecting the location of their place of worship.

I'm tired of this too -- let's just say we disagree. Jobs and the economy are the most important issues for me.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Christianity is more than just a religion. It is a form of government --- Christianity has their own law -- Theocracy.

 

[BostonPirate]

You need an occupational permit to occupy a building.

Islam is more than just a religion. It is a form of government --- Islam has their own law -- Sharia.

Please get beyond the thinking that this is about freedom of religion. I have heard no one say that they don't have the right to worship.

It is about their poor choice in selecting the location of their place of worship.

I'm tired of this too -- let's just say we disagree. Jobs and the economy are the most important issues for me.

they have the right to worship, just not where you think they shouldn't.

This whole thing is very reminiscent of my experiences with Dreu and its why I've stayed out of commenting on it here up until now.

he would embarrass the hell out of me because if we were out at sunset, or one of those prayer times that always popped up at the most inconvenient of moments, he would drop to his knees and pray on the sidewalk or in the mall. I have no idea how he knew the direction to face, but I gathered that was one of the more important processes. It would make a scene, but on at least one occasion a street cop walked up and held the people back until he was finished.

thats because americans have the freedom to pray anywhere they want to. I have no Idea why there are Moments that it has to be done for muslims but its one of those things and to say that they were engaging in sharia law by praying at one of the appointed moments is just fucking ludicrous.

This is all as unamerican as it gets and people need to grow up and remember what being an american means.

 

[MoltenRock III]

It is about their poor choice in selecting the location of their place of worship.

I'm tired of this too -- let's just say we disagree. Jobs and the economy are the most important issues for me.

Then why are these same groups demonstrating and protesting mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California, Texas, and the other places being harassed including burning down a mosque in Murfreesboro, TN?

The community center for the 1,000th time is 2 1/2 blocks as the crow flies from the WTC site. How many blocks or miles away does it need to be to placate protestors? Oh, that's right, even California and Wisconsin is too close isn't it?