So, what do you guys think about the possible mosque by ground zero

[Jack Springer]

Then why are these same groups demonstrating and protesting mosques in Tennessee, Wisconsin, California, Texas, and the other places being harassed including burning down a mosque in Murfreesboro, TN?

The community center for the 1,000th time is 2 1/2 blocks as the crow flies from the WTC site. How many blocks or miles away does it need to be to placate protestors? Oh, that's right, even California and Wisconsin is too close isn't it?

In no way do I condone the burning, destruction of a house of worship. The "burning down of a mosque in Murfreesburo, TN" did not happen. There were several pieces of construction equipment that were burned - one destroyed and three others damaged. A mosque was not burned down. Whoever destroyed the equipment should be arrested and punished.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/28/national/main6814690.shtml

The organizers of this mosque/center could have avoided most of these hard feelings if they would have responded earlier to concerns about the center being built so closely to ground zero and looked for a another site.

I remember my grandmother telling stories of how their Church and parish were treated and how yellow paint was thrown on the Church doors because their ethnicity was German. Freedom of religion in the USA is very important.

I just want this to be over -- too much hatred on both sides.

 

[BostonPirate]

In no way do I condone the burning, destruction of a house of worship. The "burning down of a mosque in Murfreesburo, TN" did not happen. There were several pieces of construction equipment that were burned - one destroyed and three others damaged. A mosque was not burned down. Whoever destroyed the equipment should be arrested and punished.

The organizers of this mosque/center could have avoided most of these hard feelings if they would have responded earlier to concerns about the center being built so closely to ground zero and looked for a another site.

I remember my grandmother telling stories of how their Church and parish were treated and how yellow paint was thrown on the Church doors because their ethnicity was German. Freedom of religion in the USA is very important.

I just want this to be over -- too much hatred on both sides.

if they had only been obedient and given up their right to free speech and religion no one would have had to treat them this awful way.

well turn that table buddy and think about it. When Beck and his crowd come for you because you aren't the right KIND of christian as a queer, will you just apologize for happening to be in their way and will you just surrender your rights because they WANT and DEMAND it? You are offensive to god knows how many people as a gay man.

CAN you even hear what you are saying and how it flies in the face of every value we hold dear as americans?

 

[CowboyBob]

Now that idiot Newt Gingrich wants to "Federalize" the land in lower Manhattan so this so called "mosque" can't be built there. The depths these desperate demagogues are digging themselves into to stay in front of the cameras is unreal.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2...rvative-icon-calls-for-federalizing-Manhattan

These right-winger Republicans are insane. Unbelievable.

What does Newt Gingrich actually do for a living? How does he earn his paycheck? Is he a welfare mother living off other people's incomes? Where does his paycheck come from?

Remember he's the spoiled baby that shut down the government because he couldn't ride in the front of the plane on Air Force One. He's an embarrassment to the United States.

 

[BostonPirate]

Now that idiot Newt Gingrich wants to "Federalize" the land in lower Manhattan so this so called "mosque" can't be built there. The depths these desperate demagogues are digging themselves into to stay in front of the cameras is unreal.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2...rvative-icon-calls-for-federalizing-Manhattan

These right-winger Republicans are insane. Unbelievable.

What does Newt Gingrich actually do for a living? How does he earn his paycheck? Is he a welfare mother living off other people's incomes? Where does his paycheck come from?

Remember he's the spoiled baby that shut down the government because he couldn't ride in the front of the plane on Air Force One. He's an embarrassment to the United States.

well he gets a few hundred grand from a retirement fund from when he was speaker, right?

he resigned before he got thrown out on those ethics charges, so he gets the pay. He also makes big chunks of change from speaking at all these functions.

He will NEVER win a national election again, so this whole thing he's doing right now is just for the cash and the fame.

 

[MoltenRock III]

Now that idiot Newt Gingrich wants to "Federalize" the land in lower Manhattan so this so called "mosque" can't be built there. The depths these desperate demagogues are digging themselves into to stay in front of the cameras is unreal.

How rich! LOL!

This is the twit, and his minions that have split an artery over reckless spending and be apoplectic over the deficit, but the second something doesn't go their way he's like all TeaBaggers. He'll spend tens of billions to buy the surrounding blocks of the 9/11 attacks why? Oh, that's right... so some Islamic community center can't build what they want on private land, they purchased already, and gotten approval from all the local, city, and state zoning boards. Typical Newt. Spending massive sums of $$$ on worthless, do-nothing, empty, sentiments but whine that the poor and unemployed are too expensive to help.

 

[MercuryJones]

Now that idiot Newt Gingrich wants to "Federalize" the land in lower Manhattan so this so called "mosque" can't be built there. The depths these desperate demagogues are digging themselves into to stay in front of the cameras is unreal.

And even if they did, what would Gingrich do when they want to build an Islamic center just outside of that area? Federalize THAT surrounding area too? Federalize the whole US so he can decide who builds what where?

 

[CowboyBob]

And even if they did, what would Gingrich do when they want to build an Islamic center just outside of that area? Federalize THAT surrounding area too? Federalize the whole US so he can decide who builds what where?

Yeah. The blowhard thinks the Federal Government should federalize all the land south of Central Park and call it a "battlezone".

Can you fucking believe that? My God republicans, you must really be embarrassed! I'm embarrassed for you.

 

[MoltenRock III]

My God republicans, you must really be embarrassed! I'm embarrassed for you.

They have no shame, none at all. Hypocrisy doesn't even register on their bullshit meters anymore. I'm dead serious.

 

[frankfrank]

And those SAME hypocrites turn around and say that the Government has to get out of education, Social Security, etc. It looks like Newt is talking about adding a massive new chunk of bureaucracy to the Federal government, which is SUPPOSEDLY complete anathema to Repugnantans.

Federalizing a few blocks of downtown Manhattan isn't like Federalizing a patch of land of a similar size in a wetland or forest or something.

And I've said it before...get those "privatize everything, shrink the Federal government to nothing" wackos into power, the the massive bureaucracy they'd install to regulate out behavior would be incredible.

 

[gourami]

Out of respect for the victims of 9/11, it should not be built so close imo

 

[MoltenRock III]

Out of respect for the victims of 9/11, it should not be built so close imo

Should the strip joint 1 block away be forced to move? What about the actual mosque that is 4 blocks away? How far away does this community center need to be built? It's at 2 1/2 blocks as the crow flies now.... so how far? 8 blocks? 14 blocks? New Jersey?

 

[BostonPirate]

Out of respect for the victims of 9/11, it should not be built so close imo

the 9/11 heroes died believing that america was free and that the constitution meant something.

I wonder what they would think knowing that someone killed them because they hated american freedoms and then their deaths were used to deprive other americans of their freedom.

Or have we reached the point where we no longer consider americans who are muslims americans?

Next will it be the queers?

sad sad sad

 

[CowboyBob]

Are we still going over this non-issue?

Remember, this is a topic brought up by the right-ring to stir up emotions and fears so those undecided might get out and vote. It's something to talk about. It's faux patriotism.

Americans are Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist, Jewish and everything else. They can build their buildings anywhere they want.

 

[jdoe4822]

If I say this is as much out of line being near Ground Zero as the mosque/cultural center can I get a pass on my opposition to both?

During the the inaugural worship service of a proposed "9/11 Christian Center at Ground Zero" on Sunday, evangelist minister Bill Keller slammed Islam and Mormonism as "lies from Satan." At the same time, Keller maintained that his project was not in opposition to the proposed construction of an Islamic community center two blocks away.

"It's not an anti-mosque," Keller said of his proposed center, which would be the first physical church constructed by his online ministry, Liveprayer.com. "For lack of better terminology, it's an old-time Evangelistic center where we're going to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ -- the truth of the Bible -- and get some folks saved."

Later, however, he rallied against both the mosque project's Muslim leader Imam Feisal Rauf, as well as Fox News personality Glenn Beck, who is Mormon, calling them both "false prophets," and asserting that both men and their followers would end up in hell. (Video courtesy Salon's Justin Elliot)

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/9-11-christian-centers-first-service-bill-keller-bashes-islam-mormonism-as-false-religions/19621914

I'm begining to think that in recognition that as religion was what motivated the slaughter those people on 9/11 that it happened in the name of God, we're best off having a God-free and religion-free zone around Ground Zero.

 

[MoltenRock III]

If I say this is as much out of line being near Ground Zero as the mosque/cultural center can I get a pass on my opposition to both?

I'm begining to think that in recognition that as religion was what motivated the slaughter those people on 9/11 that it happened in the name of God, we're best off having a God-free and religion-free zone around Ground Zero.

If New York City zoning wants to make the entire 8 block radius, 12 block, or whatever all "for profit only" businesses, and no non-profits (ie... religious organizations) then that's fine too. But you can't pick and choose which religious group gets to build while another one doesn't. That's fundamentally unfair, and unAmerican.

But, the zoning board, city council, and all local authorities have already signed off on this project, so it's free to move ahead and cannot be stopped. The FAUX news morons picked this non-issue up after it had already cleared all the hurdles, including commentary by those in the surrounding area and those directly affected. They were in favor of it! It is THEIR city, and it annoys New Yorkers to no end that jackholes from all over the US are demanding what needs to be done there, when in truth the American public won't give a damn about this site in 2 months from now when no one remembers the issue at all.

This was 2010's August FOXpublicans official hate spreading topic. Last August (2009) it was the Obama healthcare bill and the nonsense about "death panels", "mandates" (not the gay kind of dates), and "socialist/marxism/communism".

 

[MoltenRock III]

You're an interesting person, MoltenRock. Very fascinating. I'm going to be watching you.

There's something I want to ask you about Singapore, and how it all fits in with your political views. Would you rather me do it here, or is a PM better?

I would start a new thread, or via PM whichever you prefer.

 

[jdoe4822]

If New York City zoning wants to make the entire 8 block radius, 12 block, or whatever all "for profit only" businesses, and no non-profits (ie... religious organizations) then that's fine too. But you can't pick and choose which religious group gets to build while another one doesn't. That's fundamentally unfair, and unAmerican.

But, the zoning board, city council, and all local authorities have already signed off on this project, so it's free to move ahead and cannot be stopped. The FAUX news morons picked this non-issue up after it had already cleared all the hurdles, including commentary by those in the surrounding area and those directly affected. They were in favor of it! It is THEIR city, and it annoys New Yorkers to no end that jackholes from all over the US are demanding what needs to be done there, when in truth the American public won't give a damn about this site in 2 months from now when no one remembers the issue at all.

This was 2010's August FOXpublicans official hate spreading topic. Last August (2009) it was the Obama healthcare bill and the nonsense about "death panels", "mandates" (not the gay kind of dates), and "socialist/marxism/communism".

I have recognized from the begining that there is no legal recourse of stopping either of these whackjobs from spreading their religious garbage on american holy soil. doesn't mean i have to like it or think its a good idea.

 

[chance1]

an issue for ny ers only in my opinion

i think it is in terrible taste for those who would build a mosque on or about the site - seems not very neighborly

my gut is it will never get built

which would be fine with me

 

[MoltenRock III]

an issue for ny ers only in my opinion

i think it is in terrible taste for those who would build a mosque on or about the site - seems not very neighborly

my gut is it will never get built

which would be fine with me

I'll put $20 on it that it will be built right there.

Wanna take me up on it?

 

[jdoe4822]

If the non existent God ever had a true prophet that he spoke through on matters of faith, it must be Christoper Hitchens. A good look at how our secular society necessarily "tames and domesticates" wayward religions and he sums up well the problems with the Muslim reactions to the controversy over the ground zero mosque and those that defend their so called moderation.

Reactions from even "moderate" Muslims to criticism are not uniformly reassuring. "Some of what people are saying in this mosque controversy is very similar to what German media was saying about Jews in the 1920s and 1930s," Imam Abdullah Antepli, Muslim chaplain at Duke University, told the New York Times. Yes, we all recall the Jewish suicide bombers of that period, as we recall the Jewish yells for holy war, the Jewish demands for the veiling of women and the stoning of homosexuals, and the Jewish burning of newspapers that published cartoons they did not like. What is needed from the supporters of this very confident faith is more self-criticism and less self-pity and self-righteousness.

Those who wish that there would be no mosques in America have already lost the argument: Globalization, no less than the promise of American liberty, mandates that the United States will have a Muslim population of some size. The only question, then, is what kind, or rather kinds, of Islam it will follow. There's an excellent chance of a healthy pluralist outcome, but it's very unlikely that this can happen unless, as with their predecessors on these shores, Muslims are compelled to abandon certain presumptions that are exclusive to themselves. The taming and domestication of religion is one of the unceasing chores of civilization. Those who pretend that we can skip this stage in the present case are deluding themselves and asking for trouble not just in the future but in the immediate present.

http://www.slate.com/id/2266154/