So whose fault is it? [Trump presidency]

[me203]

I don't follow the "or else" meaning.

Who knows what "or else" might have said to, ah, persuade Sanders to play nicely? It could have been something relatively innocuous about how he doesn't want his legacy tarnished by being seen as a reason why Trump got elected. Even though he got those accusations, at least in the aftermath of 2016. They might have had more serious threats. I've heard speculations, but only speculations.

It's also speculated that others have been treated to "go along or else!" conversations, which could in theory explain why a person gets elected, promising major change, and then after taking office starts kissing Nancy Pelosi's ass.

Sanders is not a Democrat. They need him a lot more than he needs them.

To a degree, yes--but overall I think the "Democratic" Party wishes he'd shut and go away. Even with the current milder Bernie, who seems to have no willingness to actually fight, he probably says stuff regularly they don't to have spoken.

Biden has been overtly pro-labor.

When trying to buy votes, maybe, but as for actually doing something meaningful...

I can't remember this exactly. But I remember some video clip of Sanders and Biden in 2020, talking about some issue of importance to workers. I think minimum wage, but I can't recall for sure. Biden went along--but I don't think anyone actually believed he cared. Some factions of his party, in fact, were even openly saying they no longer cared about workers--the losses of those voters would offset by the gains of suburban voters.

Sanders has no one else to dance with but the Democrats,

Unfortunately, true. And voters have been told for years "fuck you, you have to vote for us, because you have no other choice except a party that is even worse than us!!!!!!"

In a way, I think Sanders should have run as an independent in 2020 and stayed in the race to the end. It might have resulted in four more years of Trump--but than that is a reality we are facing, anyway, in 2024. And if the voters who delivered that devastating loss said to the "Democratic" Party "Get used to this, because we are not coming back to your fucking party until there are some major changes" there might, just might, finally be some attempt to change.

And, of course, Sanders might actually have won in 2020. Very iffy--but I think there might have been enough people pissed off with the duopoly that I think there was at least a slight chance.

He needs to drop out now. The longer he tarries, the less chance the Democrats will have to get on the ballots in time.

True.

What interests me is that (as I said) I heard a prediction a year ago that Biden wouldn't be the nominee. They'd keep him around long enough to keep Sanders-type candidates from winning, then replace him. What is a surprise now is that Biden seems to be resisting...

Although as (I think Glenn Greenwald) pointed out, president was a long term Biden dream, and it's probably something he remembers even on his worst days. Jill Biden is also likely a factor, because she's said to like being First Lady too much. And there are probably others in the inner circle who will lose something if Biden quits.

 

[TX-Beau]

Sanders had no fucking chance to win at any time, there is nothing "iffy" about it.

If your plan is to punish the Democrats by electing the fascists, you are the problem.

If Bernie had "no one to dance with": where the fuck were you?

Butthurt is not a policy position. If you don't like your choices do something other than complain about it.

 

[me203]

If your plan is to punish the Democrats by electing the fascists, you are the problem.

I'm not interested--at least here--in "punishing." I simply realize that the only power I--or any other real world voter really has--that the "Democratic" Party will ever respect is my vote.

 

[TX-Beau]

I'm not interested--at least here--in "punishing." I simply realize that the only power I--or any other real world voter really has--that the "Democratic" Party will ever respect is my vote.

Which is a "realization" that is bunk. Lots and lots of real-world people over the many decades the party has been in operation have done far more than just vote. Voting is the absolute, bare minimum. Go make your voice heard, get all your friends to go with you and help, get enough and they will listen. But no one will hear you if you NEVER go speak up. Every one of those politicians is someone who votes, and then gets off his/her/their ass and started leading. Telling ourselves that we can never make any change is just a justification for doing nothing, making no effort.

How much are you really motivated to get different choices? Is complaining about it as far as you're willing to go?

If you really care about having different choices, that starts with you ceasing to pretend to yourself that someone else is obligated to bring them to you. We are all RESPONSIBLE INDIVIDUALLY for the state of our politics.

 

[rareboy]

Which is a "realization" that is bunk. Lots and lots of real-world people over the many decades the party has been in operation have done far more than just vote. Voting is the absolute, bare minimum. Go make your voice heard, get all your friends to go with you and help, get enough and they will listen. But no one will hear you if you NEVER go speak up. Every one of those politicians is someone who votes, and then gets off his/her/their ass and started leading. Telling ourselves that we can never make any change is just a justification for doing nothing, making no effort.

How much are you really motivated to get different choices? Is complaining about it as far as you're willing to go?

If you really care about having different choices, that starts with you ceasing to pretend to yourself that someone else is obligated to bring them to you. We are all RESPONSIBLE INDIVIDUALLY for the state of our politics.

This.

Most of the bitching and whining comes from the completely passive voters on the left. The ones who don't actually do anything themselves at any level to organize and be active in politics but sit around waiting for someone to 'respect' their vote..

I see it all the time here as well. They all seem to think that others have to magically produce the specific political agenda to suit them and the perfect candidate. They don't vote strategically, are never out at Town Halls or involved in helping to get out the vote.

And then they get to sit around for the next four or five years and complain and still remain inactive.

 

[NotHardUp1]

This.

Most of the bitching and whining comes from the completely passive voters on the left. The ones who don't actually do anything themselves at any level to organize and be active in politics but sit around waiting for someone to 'respect' their vote..

Classic straw man behavior. No one has any profile of those rejecting Biden. The only thing they have in common is their opposition to Biden. Denigrating them as passive is pure propaganda.

Presumably, they have to be Peace Corps volunteers, somehow living sacrificially on foreign soils, or the equivalent, to be street campaigners.

They are opposing an incumbent president in their party at a critical juncture. That IS active political advocating.

You are an ardent supporter of Biden and from abroad. Are YOU coming to the States to somehow actively support the president in political action? Are you making contributions to the re-election? Oh, right. That would be illegal.

So, you're attacking registered voters, in the U.S., who are advocating for change, in the same mode you are advocating for the president, verbally, by social media.

Yet, their efforts are whining. Got it.

 

[rareboy]

It seems though, that the disgruntled voters only really advocate for change once the election nears every four years.

For the rest of the time, they don't do anything to force change in the parties and the leadership they grumble about.

I get it.

A minority number of Americans will elect Trump in the cattle states and it is all Biden's fault.

And millions of voters will send a message to a Democrat Party that will likely not even exist at the national level after a dark religious autocracy seizes power after next January 6th.

As I said, I watch it up here all the time too. Forunately our system has more options for people to send messages to politicians and parties.