Survivor 21: Nicaragua

[Ohiospeedo]

Eh...pretty bad reunion show. They usually at least talk to everyone of the contestants. I am glad Jeff shot down Shannon. That guy just keeps digging himself into a hole.

I am glad that Jud won over Chase. And laughed that Sash didn't get one vote. I wonder if Jud took Holly, how many votes would she have gotten.

 

[jaysizzles]

I was a bit surprised (but shouldn't have been since it is an edited reality show with a story line) when Brenda said she tried to rally Sash's eviction, instead of hers, thus seems a big reasons why he probably didn't give her the idol and didn't work to save her. I'm surprised because editing eliminated that tidbit from the show. Seems a backstabbing of a strong alliance would be something they'd want to capitalize on.

As for Jud...I'm ok with his win. He came on strong with the wins at the end, when he needed them, and was a likable enough guy. Chase screwed himself by eliminating Jane instead of Dan. He cut her out 1 tribal too soon. I kind of don't blame her for being pissed at the time and I think she'd have accepted it better being cut one later. Jury usually votes emotionally in this game since friendships and betrayals are all still so fresh at time of final voting.

I missed/wasn't paying attention and/or don't recall who voted for whom. I recall Brenda voting for Chase and I assume Holly voted for Chase too. I assume Dan, Marty, Jane and Benry voted for Fabio. Nay, Alina, and Purple Kelly...idk?

Nay's mom was kind of an idiot and Terry Bradshaw was kind of a waste of time. I like Boston Rob and Amber though...nice to see they are doing well, still together, having kids etc...

 

[slipintothefog]

Jane would have been pissed off if she was anything less than final three judging from how EXTREMELY bitter she is toward Holly, Chase and Sash.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTsYTHWWzVM[/ame]

Like, really, Jane? Holly is THAT horrible to you just because she played the game?

Watching the Ponderosa videos also improved my opinion about Brenda a lot. She seems pretty nice, and I liked that she was mature enough to welcome Na and Kelly while Marty and Alina were mad.

 

[joesman]

This particular Survivor had more mystery leave outs than I can ever remember. At every tribal there seemed to be something that didn't quite jell and left me wondering why it happened. Brenda explained one when she told about Sash and the idol but there were so many others .... before people left for tribal there was always talk about this one or that and then at tribal it was always something else. Was it such a season that the producers didn't want us to see/know what was going down, or did they think it added to the final edit. I thought that stunk more than anything.

For the record I was very happy Sandra won. I was happy Jud won because I liked him all the way through, got a lot of laughs and thought he did an excellent job of flying under the radar until he had to win IC to last. I was happy that he read the clique that wanted him gone and had some good laughs on them.

Yes, i still think Chase was as wishy washy as anyone I have ever seen on the show. He seemed to stumble through most everything. There in lies a lot of the mystery of the tribals that didn't make sense. You never got to see what really changed his mind about who he was going to vote. I liked Chase as a person but not as a player.

I just never got Sash, or wanted to. His snake in the grass sneakiness, thousand watt smile, and mannerisms just made my skin crawl.

Going into the voting I knew that Jud had Marty, Dan and Benry because he was relatively close with them, and Dan and Marty were pretty p/o ed at Sash and Chase - Sash because of his promise on the reward challenge that he ultimately did not keep, and Chase because he was always wanting Marty to be voted out.

Yes, Dan should have gone before Jane since he was not a part of the C/S/H/J alliance.

I watched the Holly arrival at Ponderosa and was not at all happy with Marty, Jane, Benry, Nay and Kell. Alina showed what a sport she is and so did Brenda eventually. I am not with these people 24/7 and I know a lot goes on in the game that we never ever see or hear about so I don't know what the grudges are for the most part. After seeing that clip I believe Jud could have won against Holly because there was not a lot of love going on at all for Holly at Ponderosa.

As much as we become attached to certain players in the game, it is also true that the people they are playing with are not immune to their personal favorites. I think Jud was just an endearing soul, and I think he has deep feelings that some times come unexpectantly out. I see it with most people when you have the family reunion on the show. I know that it has not been that long of a time since they saw their families, but I also know that when you are in a stress situation on a constant basis you get a lot more emotional than at other times, so I just put my head down and endure their crying (though I still think Dan's son kissing him so many times was awkward as hell to watch). I get embarrassed for some players.

 

[altlover85]

Of the final three Sash played the best game, and Chase had the best FTC performance, but Jud wins...

One of the worst winners IMO.

Chase and Sash explained it perfectly why Jud should NOT win, I didn't expect Chase to get as many votes as he did and I was actually hoping he would surprise us and win the whole thing.

Sash played a decent strategy game, but obviously his social game was lacking. Chase did very well at FTC and I think that's part of the reason why he got so many votes. Jud played a decent game overall. He was under the radar when he needed to be and won when he needed to. People realized he was a threat too late.

I think voting Benry out cost the C/S/H alliance the game.

You also have to think about the huge effect that Na'onka and Purple Kelly quitting had on the game.

I don't know what show you were watching, but for me the best moments were after Jud won final immunity and Sash came with his "you're my best friend out here," and Jud was internally laughing his ass off and it almost broke through his face.

Joesman, I totally agree with your post, except for the part about being glad you were spoiled because I don't like spoilers generally.

And yeah, the double standard between Natalie/Sandra and Jud is not lost on me. Though really that's an insult to Natalie and Sandra, because they had a strategy that didn't require them to win three immunities in a row just to make it to the end, and they were actually aware of most of the votes in their seasons. I think that's what Hoho was trying to show the jury in her question to Jud, hence why I'm waiting to see her vote.

I think this season made me respect the under the radar type of game more. I may be rusty on Natalie's season, but I really don't remember her having much of a strategy at all, except to be carried by Russell and I've never really loved people being carried by someone else. That said, I am still glad that Natalie won, as I would have hated it if Russell won.

I never had an issue with Sandra's game because she made moves and knew what she was doing.

I think it's harder for a guy to play an under the radar game where you don't have to win competitions. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think it's a risky strategy. If you're at all fit, you'll probably be seen as a physical threat sooner or later.

I suppose you could throw most of the comps, but you need to be dead sure that you know what's going on in order to do that and even the savviest players can be duped sometimes.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Naonka really is crazy. She GAVE Chase her idol, she credited him at the reunion with being her BFF on he show, and yet she voted for Fabio -- the guy she fought with and claimed she hated all season long -- to win.

If Naonka had just voted for her buddy like we all expected her to, Chase would be the winner right now.

 

[slipintothefog]

This particular Survivor had more mystery leave outs than I can ever remember. At every tribal there seemed to be something that didn't quite jell and left me wondering why it happened.

I think one of the other mysteries was KB's elimination. I believe in an interview Brenda said that the plan was always to vote her off because Kelly was paranoid and they were afraid that she'd join back up with Alina at the merge. However, they split the votes to try to get Marty to play his idol at the same time to accomplish two things at once. Marty didn't take the bait, obviously.

--

atllover, Natalie's strategy WAS to play nice while letting Russell do the dirty work. She got in good with the Galu girls so that she wouldn't have been eliminated for a long time if Foa Foa's coup had failed, and her working on the women also led them to vote out Erik, which turned the game around for Foa Foa.

One of the most interesting scenes of Samoa in hindsight was in the episode when Liz got voted off - Russell was debating the benefits of taking Liz or Natalie, and he praised Natalie's social game as something Foa Foa would need to infiltrate Galu. He was right in that regard. In not so many words, he was basically saying that he was bringing Natalie because she was the better player. Which makes it really hilarious when the same traits that Russell was praising became the reasons he lost to her.

Anyway, Natalie and Jud both played passive games, but I think what frustrates me about Jud winning is that he was always in the dark when it came to voting. Natalie, Russell, Mick and Jaison basically controlled every vote in their season, so Natalie didn't have that same feeling of stumbling into her win that Jud did. Sandra was also usually in on what happened at Tribal Councils too, which is why she had to flip back to the Villains when Candice switched on the Heroes.

Natalie and Sandra also each had a key move that they pulled off to enable their win down the line - Natalie got Laura's girls to turn on Erik, and Sandra got Russell to turn on Coach. The thing that probably enabled Jud to win was Na'onka and Kelly quitting, and that wasn't something in his control at all.

--

And yeah, I agree with Pepper if Na'onka really did vote for Jud. I haven't seen the voted revealed officially but Wiki is saying that Jane, Hoho, Brenda and Alina were Chase's votes and the others were Jud's.

 

[Spiff]

I was very satisfied with the finale. Very suspenseful challenges and good to see Fabio put in a position where Sash and Chase had to kiss his ass. Especially Sash, who always was overconfident in how he thought he was in control. I think the better man won this time. To emerge victorious over a very strong alliance determined to get him out is to be a true survivor.

 

[jaysizzles]

And yeah, I agree with Pepper if Na'onka really did vote for Jud. I haven't seen the voted revealed officially but Wiki is saying that Jane, Hoho, Brenda and Alina were Chase's votes and the others were Jud's.

I couldn't remember the votes revealed so I went back and watched the end online.

Marty and Dan shown to vote for Jud.
Alina and Brenda shown to vote for Chase.

I thought Jane would have voted for Jud because I remembered her being so pissed in her comments at final tribal...most of which was spewed at Sash though...vile gutter NYC rat. She said she was pissed at Chase but it didn't seem like she was pissed enough to not vote for him. She wanted to give Chase the opportunity to talk about his charity and mom, and didn't even seem like she wanted to hear anything from Fabio at all. So it does stand to reason that she voted Chase...idk. I kind of want to hear her rationale (and then again, I kind of don't...) Why her anger was so directed at Holly and not as much Chase?

Benry...most certainly voted for his buddy Jud, and Holly most certainly voted for Chase.

Na' and Kelly must have voted Fabio...which surprises me especially that Na' went his way. I'd like to hear her reasons (eh, maybe not...they probably wouldn't make any sense...like she usually doesn't.)


So...the 2 quitters were the deciding votes. If Survivor had eliminated them for quitting, Chase would have won (assuming the votes would have been the same and not been influenced by Na and Kelly comments in jury house or at final tribal.) The decision announced last night during reunion as to whether future quitters will be allowed on the jury is going to be subject to producer's discretion...what?! Stupid...make a decision and live with it...bullshit up-in-the-air rules are not the way to go. Reeks of production manipulation.

 

[altlover85]

atllover, Natalie's strategy WAS to play nice while letting Russell do the dirty work. She got in good with the Galu girls so that she wouldn't have been eliminated for a long time if Foa Foa's coup had failed, and her working on the women also led them to vote out Erik, which turned the game around for Foa Foa.

Anyway, Natalie and Jud both played passive games, but I think what frustrates me about Jud winning is that he was always in the dark when it came to voting. Natalie, Russell, Mick and Jaison basically controlled every vote in their season, so Natalie didn't have that same feeling of stumbling into her win that Jud did.

Natalie and Sandra also each had a key move that they pulled off to enable their win down the line - Natalie got Laura's girls to turn on Erik, and Sandra got Russell to turn on Coach. The thing that probably enabled Jud to win was Na'onka and Kelly quitting, and that wasn't something in his control at all.

I honestly don't have the kind of memory for Survivor that you do, but after looking at Wikipedia, it does bring back the memory of Natalie making that move. I am more of a fan of people who win challenges, so perhaps it's a gameplay preference.

What I liked about Jud's game was that by the time the others realized he was a threat, they were stuck having to beat him in challenges instead of being able to get him out some other way. True, it was largely because of Kelly and Na'onka's departure, but if Sash had played a better social game and Chase had played a more focused and less paranoid game, either of them could have had a shot at winning.

 

[slipintothefog]

The secret(s) to my Survivor memory are Youtube and/or rewatching old seasons and/or hanging around on Sucks.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

The secret(s) to my Survivor memory are Youtube and/or rewatching old seasons and/or hanging around on Sucks.

Heh, the same is true for me with Big Brother. We're such dorks.

 

[altlover85]

Haha! I thought you guys had encyclopedic memories of all the seasons.

 

[slipintothefog]

Well, I do remember the first eight seasons pretty well. I rewatched them all in 2009 because I was really getting into lurking on Sucks for the first time. Vanuatu and on is more of a haze to me, especially pre-Micronesia. I swear I'll force myself to sit through all of Fiji once some day.

But post-ASS is when the editing, casting and twists of the show started to change for the worse IMO, so I'm not in as much of a rush to relive those moments currently.

Though, I do remember Natalie's game very well because Sucks is very pro-Natalie and especially pro-Sandra and I see the arguments brought up frequently when Russell fans join to claim he was robbed and both of the girls did nothing. My favorites right now are the trolls who refer to Sandra exclusively as "girl from PI (I forgot her name)" because she was so "forgettable."

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Jane would have been pissed off if she was anything less than final three judging from how EXTREMELY bitter she is toward Holly, Chase and Sash.

Jane is just a bitter old hag who sounded like she was cast for Green Acres, not Survivor.

 

[You Cant See Me]

Don't know why there is much hatred for Fabio! I was wrapped when he one those 2 final immunity challanges and when he won the Million dollars.

He made it to the final and he played the game when it most counted and that was winning those immunity challanges in the finals. Sure he did have much of a game plan towards Sash and Chase but he outplayed them and I am for one very happy that Jud won .

And he is hot also

 

[slipintothefog]

Lots of people do think Jud is hot... personally, I prefer Chase, Sash, Benry and even Marty (before he got voted off and still had crazy hair) from the guys on this season, but that's just me.

 

[jaysizzles]

Lots of people do think Jud is hot... personally, I prefer Chase, Sash, Benry and even Marty (before he got voted off and still had crazy hair) from the guys on this season, but that's just me.

I prefer Benry and Chase. Sash looked so much better early in the season and at the reunion than late in the season...he was just too skinny, dirty looking and scruffy. I thought Shannon at 1st too...but he opened his mouth and then any and all attraction for him was quickly gone. Jud was much cuter at the reunion with his hair shorter...his goofiness was the biggest attraction for me.

 

[joesman]

Ok upon the show starting I got hooked on Shannon and Chase, particularly as they walked toward the beach together in their boxer/briefs. Then tribal and Shannon opened his asshole mouth and there he went. Then it was Chase and Benry and Jud and Marty. Then Marty showed his a-hole master-of-the-world self and I lost him early on. Then it was Benry, Chase and Jud. The more I saw of Jud the more appealing he was to me in all his goofy glory. Chase never lost his appeal to me but his total pussy loving self got to me. Benry and Chase and Jud were and still are attractive to me. Chase's only sin for me was his indecisiveness. So I'd roll with all three.

Sash never hooked me with anything at all. His personality and looks just made my stomach gurgle. ECH!

As an ad I will say that Chase's smile was addictive. But then so was Jud and Benry's but not quite as much.

 

[slipintothefog]

My completely shallow assessment of the people this season:

Benry was probably my favorite guy based on appearance for the first few weeks. Then he got a bit douchey and I was over it.

I was never into Shannon at all, even before he opened his mouth and proved to be an asshole.

I do think Sash is cute when he's clean-cut and not manorexic, neither of which he was toward the end of the show.

Jud's looks and personality do nothing for me personally, but I can see why others would like him.

Marty was hotter with facial hair and his crazy spiky hair that he had at the merge. When he was on the jury, clean-shaven and sporting a comb-over, I was over it.

Chase is the type of all-American generic cute guy with an amazing body that my mom always favors. I actually ended up liking his look more than I expected I would.

Brenda grew on me. She was clearly hot but she didn't present much in terms of personality on the show. Like I said before, I liked her more in Ponderosa because she was nice.

Kelly Purple is probably one of my favorite girls based on looks and personality. Not too smart, and she quit, but she was always SO HAPPY Y'ALL OMG ^_^!

I like KB's introverted personality and girl next door looks.

Alina is kind of hit or miss for me. She looks weird in her official cast photo, and she wore that bitchface for most of her time on the show. Again, I liked her more in Ponderosa/on the jury because her bitchface showed up less.

Yve was easily the best looking of the Espada women, since Hoho looks awful during the show. Though Hoho did get pretty glam for a fortysomething woman post-show. <3