To all married or divorced guys. Lets start fighting our corner!

[james1200]

jeeesus PeTe...i always think of canada as so much more tolerant. i woulda figured your school would have protected you...

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

jeeesus PeTe...i always think of canada as so much more tolerant. i woulda figured your school would have protected you...

the teachers were the biggest fucktards.

and it was a long time ago.

 

[james1200]

you're awesome PeTe...wish i had your balls in coming out. how did your family take it?

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

you're awesome PeTe...wish i had your balls in coming out. how did your family take it?

they had no choice.

it took time for my parents but they came around.

 

[JackFTwist]

some ugly and most unsupportive comments being raised by those trying to make "either/or" into other people's lives

real life is far, far more complex that the reduction into the easy that goes on in this thread

soil, good for you and for all the guys who knew early on or at least early enough

and I personally have some limitd on my compassion for those who know and went ahead anyway to cover

but since one is not "this" or "that" for those who did not know or thought it was controllable or just an urge that was not really that defining or whatever it was, for those who circumstances are far more complex that the reductions into absurdity that this thread hs born witness to, those to thom our thread starter has spoken of, for those,from so many, just judgment and condemnation? How loving of the community. How fucking judgmental. What a bunch of asshole know it alls.

 

[Soilwork]

Well, I expected some good counter-arguements.

I guess I expected to much.

Al of this "Oh you don't know my story" or "You don't understand how hard it was for meeeeeeee" bullshit is giving me an ulcer.

Being gay isnt' easy for anyone... even Cher's daughter, for fuck's sake.

Life ain't for sissies, but I'll tell you this... I'll not pat y'all on the head and say "there there" if you want me to be supportive. I've read Elwood's story... I know how much hell he's been through and I'm glad he made it out the other side.

That being said, he made the wrong decision to begin with and I'm not going to pretend he didn't. This isn't a thread about married bi men who actaully love their wives but find themselves attracted to men without acting on it... this is about gay men who marry women for cover.

This is about fuck-tards who seem to think that it's ok to use people because we're too chicken shit to be who we are. "I'd rather use this woman and waste the only life she's got than have my mommy and daddy know I'm gay."

Fuck that shit. I'm not going to tell you that what you did is OK or that you didnt' deserve to get thrown out of your house face first and made to sleep in the car.

I won't tell you that I feel sorry for YOU when you say how hard it is to tell your wife and kids that you're gay... I feel much more sorry for your wife (the kids probably aren't too pleased to know that Dad just married mom out of convenience, either) and I can't believe that I'm supposed to feel bad for you that you lost three hundred grand.

None of that would have happened to you if you hadn't set down that path by your own choice.

You think the rest of us weren't tempted to marry a girl and try to live that "straight life?" You think that we became sexually aware at 13 and went "Oh good... Now I can get me some cock?"

I think probably MOST of us considered doing what you did. I sure did. I could easily have married by high school GF... she wanted to... and I was too scared to come out... But it would have been wrong.

Thank God SOME of us know that even at 18. Too bad we all don't.

 

[Soilwork]

So yeah if you ever lived during my time growing up or have ever walked a mile in my shoes, then shut up, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Dude, I'm like 7 years younger than you. You make it sound like we grew up in totally difference ages. We probably were listening to the same pop songs as teenagers.

Life didn't change THAT much in 7 years that I have no idea what you went through.

Can we please remember that I grew up in an extremely homophobic farming village along the east coast of Canada and I understand the pressure to be like everyone else?

Fuck, it's like people think I fell out of a mushroom and landed in WeHo.

 

[jamie_01930]

so easy to tell a guy what he should have done when you aren't him.
When you are in the closet and know or even think you are gay it is so scary , that suicide looks good at the time.

 

[Soilwork]

When you are in the closet and know or even think you are gay it is so scary , that suicide looks good at the time.

REally?

I had no idea.

Geez, I was never in the closet and have no idea what it's like to see gays hated right in front of you like that.

 

[Soilwork]

This isn't about divorce.

I've got a couple failed long term relationships in my past too.

but I was with those guys because I loved them and because we were sexually compatible.. not because I needed them for cover.

We're not talking about the same thing.

 

[dodo2761]

It si interesting to see how judgemental some of you have been- I hope you dont go off on one when people are judgemental about YOU!
i got married because I genuinely fell in love with the woman who became my wife.
I had not 'realised' I was gay at that time- you can accuse me of being naive- but that is what happened.
It was not for some time that the realisation hit.
I was truamatised beyond belief for the situation I had put my wife in and for what might happen if I made a decision to tell her and my children.
the trauma was unbelievable.
If I said anything I risked ruining her life and the love of the children I am a father to.
The pain I was suffering as a gay man in a marriage was though too much to bear.
I was living a lie and was lying to the people I loved most.
I decided to be honest with her and them rather than decieving her by playing around behind her back.
I decided to be honest and live with the consequences.

Rather than attack people and be judgemental- I would have been prepared to give the facts.
All you have done is reenforce what I was saying some of you have no idea!

 

[SilverRRCloud]

I am fed up with guys who have never been married to a woman making off hand comments or being judgemental about us who did but who are gay.

They have no idea what pressures we may have been put under or have no idea exactly why we did it.
They have no idea of the pressure to maintain the relationship either by being faithful or not.
They have no idea about how difficult it might be to break away from that relationship once we have children.
They have no idea how difficult it is to tell your wife or children that you are gay.
they have no idea how difficult it is to leave a marital home. the home you have spent years investing in.
The financial loss alone is potentially huge- I lost over £150,000.

So guys lets start fighting back- lets tell those guys who are so all knowing what it was like.
Tell of the tears the heartbreak- the bags on the lawn. Having to sleep in a car.
All the trauma we went through to be who we really are.
Some of us are even to scared to make the break- lets tell them how difficult we have had it.

#1
Fighting back directly a massive majority from a position of a small minority while positioned on a serious moral low ground is a prescription perfect for a total defeat. No one in recorded history won any battle from that position.

#2
Telling your newly made opponents, how clueless they are by reciting that 'they have no idea' is not going to make any single one of them sympathetic to your cause. On the contrary, it will only enrage them (S. Soil) and you'll suffer yet another serious and very humiliating, if perfectly counterproductive defeat.

---
So, you believe that you have a cause? Cool.

Tell us your story. Share your experience and tell us, if there is anything you have learned out of it, in particular. Tell us, what kind of support and help you may need and you'll be surprised, how things may suddenly start looking up for you.

---

Last but not least: you do have a serious structural weakness in your construction:

You lied. (Now that the things got very sour and $300K+ went down the drain, that of course, is always plain WRONG, isn't it?)

You used other people to cover up for you. (You had a plan, didn't you? And that plan did not quite work out, did it? Someone has got to pick up the tab? It was your plan, guess, whose is going to face the big music here?)

You ruined other people's lives, because, you were not a man enough to stand your ground in the first place. (Probably, the gravest of all your woes. You involved usually innocent others into what was, your devious, dishonest plan to start with. Your responsibility here is very grave.)

You caved in and conformed in exchange for approval and benefits. The deal went sour and you are now, sadly pissed off. (A very bad one on an emotional level. Caving in to outer pressure is mostly perceived as utterly unmanly. Guys hate that with all their guts. Besides, you did have a deal in your hands; there were some nice benefits shining for you at the end of that sceptic tunnel, you were going to walk on your knees through to get them...)

You want to address all of these issues in detail and explain, why did you do all of that and why should anyone show compassion for people, who behaved in such a manner?

SC

 

[Soilwork]

Except we DO have an idea.

you're not the first person to tell this story, and we've heard it all before.

Now although I still don't "get" how you can not "know" you're gay before marrying age, I do know it happens. (well... I'm told it happens.. I'm still not sure I believe it. I've never heard of someone suddenly finding women attractive at the age of 30. Sounds like a big cop-out to me, but stranger things have happened.)

I certainly have sypathy for that situation, but most of the gay men who got married knew perfectly well what they were doing and did it anyway.

However, you're going to get a lot more understanding if you start your thread like that last post instead of starting it with a rant about how nobody knows how hard it is to come out...

We ALL came out.

 

[luminum]

I don't think anyone advocating that married gay men come clean ever said that it would be easy, especially with children. It may seem cold and curt because that's the bottom line. You want to stop living a lie, do what's really right by your wife and kids, you'll tell them the truth. Whether that means it ends or not is not the point. The point is that you're trapped and you need to be honest.

All the financial loss, the heartache, the sleeping in cars may or may not happen and who on earth would expect it not to happen? But when others say these things about telling the truth and getting into the nitty gritty, it's because they and you know that after you push through the crappy parts of it, it's the right thing to do and nothing will become better for you unless you do something about it.

So will telling us about how hard it is to do change the fact that you have to do it? No.

But I welcome the testimonies because it will probably enlighten everybody to a different person's experience. Hopefully, it will also deter other gay men from making the choices that you all made, despite their own insurmountable pressures. Hopefully, they will see that no pressure is worth what you have to do later when you enter into a marriage and family based on untruths.

And for those who entered into marriages with integrity and honesty only to discover themselves later in life, I would hope that like any couple with irreconcilable differences, you would have the courage to accept that your marriage can no longer function as it should have and end it. Don't end it with no reason, tell your partner why and hopefully, despite any bad reactions, you'll have the courage to see it through and do what's best for both of you.

How much it sucks to have to end a marriage doesn't change the fact that it is necessary.

 

[rareboy]

I think if dodo hadn't been as confrontational in the original post, there'd be a lot more compassion. As I see it, the loss of the investment seems to have been the hardest thing for him to accept. What price freedom, eh?

I find it dreary beyond measure when people paint always themselves into the picture as the victims. It tends to diminsh the integrity of those who had no say in the event, like an unknowing wife and the children, for instance. I probably would have asked for the car too.

 

[dodo2761]

You miss several points- some of you claim to have an idea of what its like but go ahead and condemn all the same.
As far as being the victims- those of you here who have condemned me b4 knowing the background of the story only re enforce what i say that many of you dont know our stories or what it was like and dont really care.

 

[luminum]

Does the fact that one guy entered into the relationship fully aware that he was gay and another guy entered into it with integrity but later discovered that he was gay change the fact that both men have to end the marriage?

People want advice when they bring it up, and we can go through the formalities of telling them how sorry we are that it's going to be a hard thing to do, but they already know that and we already know that it's probably going to be one of the most painful things they'll ever have to do in their lives.

However, getting to the point is telling them that regardless of how painful it is, it's the right thing to do and they must do it for the good of themselves and the ones they love.

Perhaps directness has been perceived as insensitivity, but you ask any guy who told any trapped married man to end it if he thinks it's a hard thing to do and he'll tell you that fuck yeah, it's hard, but it doesn't change anything.

 

[Soilwork]

those of you here who have condemned me b4 knowing the background of the story only re enforce what i say that many of you dont know our stories or what it was like and dont really care.

you're right.

I dont' know your personal story and I don't care.

All I care about is men acting like men.

Too many gay people seem to think (and bisexual men are three times more guilty of this, I've seen) that being gay is some kind of license to sneak around behind the backs of the people they're supposed to love and protect. They seem to think that being gay means not having to have accountability for their actions and they seem to think "Oh... it's haaarrrddd to come out" is some kind of excuse to not act like a man.

Don't be like that.

 

[inlovewithanton]

you're right.

I dont' know your personal story and I don't care.

All I care about is men acting like men.

Too many gay people seem to think (and bisexual men are three times more guilty of this, I've seen) that being gay is some kind of license to sneak around behind the backs of the people they're supposed to love and protect. They seem to think that being gay means not having to have accountability for their actions and they seem to think "Oh... it's haaarrrddd to come out" is some kind of excuse to not act like a man.

Don't be like that.

I couldnt have said it better myself. This is such a sad discussion, to see that people are seriously begging for sympathy that is so undeserved.

 

[1st love ron]

Interesting thread, but God damn, I've never had a "girlfriend" never mind the desire to marry a woman and I'm from the era when homosexuality was a dirty little secret meant to be kept hidden.